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Mostly, because it's easier to adjust a short radius ski to a longer turn than vice versa.

I've never found carving a short radius turn with a "straight ski" to be difficult. It must have something to do with bending the knees. (five dollars please) ;-)
 
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Can we name names and lengths? Do you have video?

2015/2016 models of the Brahma, Experience 88 and Pursuit 700 (they didn't have the 800), Volkl RTM and Uvo, K2 Iconic (85?), and a model by Head I can't remember offhand. Lengths would've been 180s.

The hills here aren't usually so crowded that I feel I need to shorten up the turns on my old Merlins, and I want a ski I can take to a bigger hill and really open up. The runs here will be short no matter what ski I'm on, or how many times I turn on it, so I'd rather turn the way I want, than try to cram more turns in just for the sake of quantity, if that makes any sense...
 

François Pugh

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At my local hill, I would be at the lift line coral before I had enough speed built up to carve a turn with my old straight skis. With my newish (2002) 20 something meter GS ish skis I can only make a few in a row - so by the time I've got a rhythm going and know what to fix in the next turn it's time to slam on the brakes. Hence I use the SL radius skis.
 

trailtrimmer

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Mostly, because it's easier to adjust a short radius ski to a longer turn than vice versa.

I can flex around and adjust on my GS skis and front side carvers much easier than my FIS SL Fischers.

As Phil was saying, the radius is only part of the equation. A Nordica Firearrow EDT84 or GSR EDT may say 18.5M or 19.5M on them and it's quite accurate, those skis like to make that shape and not much else, they are stiff and need to be driven with purpose.

Conversely, I can bend older 21M/23m GS skis, my Volkl cheaters and most other carvy skis into much tighter turns than the stated radius. The Head front side skis can still loosen up into looser arcs and still track pretty well. Not like a GS ski, however it will bust through chop without much of a complaint. For free skiing, I love the 15m to 18m skis on our little 300 to 550' bumps.
 

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I've never found carving a short radius turn with a "straight ski" to be difficult. It must have something to do with bending the knees. (five dollars please) ;-)
It wasn't carved all the way, we know that. Maybe like this?
From Sybervision. Either Chris Ryman or Jens Husted.

A Nordica Firearrow EDT84 or GSR EDT may say 18.5M or 19.5M on them and it's quite accurate, those skis like to make that shape and not much else, they are stiff and need to be driven with purpose.
Never found the fa84 edt stiff. Once it flexed it reacted though and it wanted purpose. Had the 168.
 

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I suspect strongly that a lot of what you are experiencing comes down to the pilot. Let me guess you still ski pretty much old school with feet locked together? To make a modern ski work properly and be able to play more effectively with turn shape and radius you really need to change up technique from your vr17 and Merlin days. You can still ski them the way ypu used to (and don't feel special, I still see an awful lot of people doing just that) but you will not get the full benefit of the ski.

For the record, I personally prefer a bigger radius ski and spend the greater part of my time on a 30 or 35 m GS but you can play around with turn shape and radius based upon pressure and edge angle. Similarly you can still run larger turn shapes with a 13 m slalom ski
 
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I suspect strongly that a lot of what you are experiencing comes down to the pilot. Let me guess you still ski pretty much old school with feet locked together?

I am curious about using technique to adapt to the "limitations" of the ski's sidecut, though I wonder which end is "best" to approach it from (short turns on longer radius, or long turns on shorter radius). Input would definitely be appreciated on that.

I don't ski shaped skis with my feet together like I did when parallel skiing on straight skis. It was pretty obvious early on when I started skiing on my Merlins, that getting the most out of them meant letting my feet come apart a good bit, if for no other reason than it meant I could get over on the edges that much further (I'm sure there are a laundry list of other benefits, but at 22 I wasn't thinking that technically about it).
 

Tom K.

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I can flex around and adjust on my GS skis and front side carvers much easier than my FIS SL Fischers.

To each their own, I guess. I hit 62 mph on my Head SLs today at Sun Valley, coming across the "belly" of a perfect carved arc on lower Warm Springs.

Not sure what my exact turn radius was, but certainly MUCH larger than the stated value of the ski.
 

François Pugh

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To each their own, I guess. I hit 62 mph on my Head SLs today at Sun Valley, coming across the "belly" of a perfect carved arc on lower Warm Springs.

Not sure what my exact turn radius was, but certainly MUCH larger than the stated value of the ski.
I've spent a fair bit of time over a mile a minute on my Fischer SCs too. However, skiing them back to back with my old Super Gs I know there is a big difference. Go back and do that same turn on a good long radius ski. You will feel the difference.
 

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I've spent a fair bit of time over a mile a minute on my Fischer SCs too. However, skiing them back to back with my old Super Gs I know there is a big difference. Go back and do that same turn on a good long radius ski. You will feel the difference.

Ya, ya, could not agree more.

I was just "wife skiing" today, and decided to uncork one when I got behind picking up somebody's ski, and noticed that the entire run beneath me was EMPTY!
 

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....
I am curious about using technique to adapt to the "limitations" of the ski's sidecut, though I wonder which end is "best" to approach it from (short turns on longer radius, or long turns on shorter radius). Input would definitely be appreciated on that.

.

From what I've read of your posts above, I'd suggest going for a longer radius and learn to shorten the radius through technique. I ski a 23m ski and pop short turns like a slalom ski. I do have slalom race skis ( that I use to race in a slalom course with ) so I do know the difference.

Your old K2 Merlins pretty much suck. I had a pair maybe over 20 years ago. Yeah it's a shaped ski, but one of the first gens., and the design didn't live that long. A modern ski will blow that dog away in all respects. Get something in a 80-88 waist and >16m R - Look something in the 16-19m range.
 
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Your old K2 Merlins pretty much suck. I had a pair maybe over 20 years ago. Yeah it's a shaped ski, but one of the first gens., and the design didn't live that long. A modern ski will blow that dog away in all respects. Get something in a 80-88 waist and >16m R - Look something in the 16-19m range.

Other than the little light up gizmo, what changed, other than much more drastic side cuts? Any suggestions for a ski like you describe, for a 6'1" 230lb guy, that'll do great at holding an edge on midwest ice?
 

Ken_R

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Actually, Black Crow is doing what Philpug suggested, categorize turning radii to short, medium, long, etc.
106344e1-b3e2-4d62-8d36-e359e2e68059.gif

I think the reason why Black Crows measures numbers to the 10th decimal is that they design each model of their skis to be length specific. You can see from the numbers below, different lengths of the same model, Camox, have the same waist width and turning radius, but slightly different tip and tail widths.

4cdb87f7-74dc-4d61-9a4b-eeb81baf34de.gif

I Like that. Doesnt make sense to me while a lighter / shorter skier that would most likely choose a shorter ski cant enjoy the same sidecut / design as the skiers who pick a longer ski (given equal ski model)
 

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I been having a ball the last couple of days on my dual radius skis. 40M up front and 24M at the back. They felt strange at first but I’ve dialled them in now. Fantastic in soft snow and very deep powder, very good in heavy crud. They love going straight which is understandable but I’ve found them to be reasonably manouverable when needed by loading the tails. Today I was on piste a lot, hard pack but no ice and they excelled at fast, large radius turns. I have had to go old school with my technique ie feet together.
Many school kids out and about in large ski classes so I’ve also had to do lots of tighter turns as well.
I have Dynafit Grand Tetons, are there many other manufactures out there doing the dual radius thing?
 

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Other than the little light up gizmo, what changed, other than much more drastic side cuts? Any suggestions for a ski like you describe, for a 6'1" 230lb guy, that'll do great at holding an edge on midwest ice?

Plenty! Think ski construction. Torsional rigidity but yet longitudinal flexibility. Actually the side cuts have been toned down some sine the hay day of the shape skis. so thing refined shapes. I'm partial to the Kastle FX or MX line. The Head Monster 83 would be worth looking at.
 
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Plenty! Think ski construction. Torsional rigidity but yet longitudinal flexibility. Actually the side cuts have been toned down some sine the hay day of the shape skis. so thing refined shapes. I'm partial to the Kastle FX or MX line. The Head Monster 83 would be worth looking at.

Yeah I hear a lot of good things about Kastle skis. Even used, their prices make my eyes bug out a little... Wouldn't the Monster be a bit soft for an aggressive, high level skier?
 

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Brian Finch

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Just like softer boots, a tighter radius allows the cross under to occur faster, with lesser chance of getting booted into the back seat. The result is a more balanced transition of the center of mass down the hill & greater lateral displacement of skis across the hill for higher edge angles.

That’s as techy as I get.
 

Atomicman

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What you guys are missing is Taper Angle. The higher the taper angle.....narrower tail compared to tip, the more versatile the turn shape. Most skis do have quite a bit of taper angle. but something like the old Fischer, I think it was an RCR? Had what they called a dual side cut Tip and if memory serves me were symmetrical.....really only liked one turn shape.
 
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