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Lifa Infinity Pro - Reviews

CascadeConcrete

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I tend to run hot and sweaty.
  • Touring - Base layer, Traibreaker pants, First Light, Dawn Patrol. Ignitor and Uplift in pack if necessary. I need a better insulation option, as there have been a few tours where layering everything has left me cold, typically on long breaks
My two cents is that you're hot and sweaty at least in part because you're wearing a lot while touring. You may be hot and sweaty by nature too, but wearing a ton of insulation in our typically mild PNW temps can't be helping. I would try ditching the First Light on the uphills and see how that feels. Pack it if you're worried about being cold, but try not wearing it while moving and see how that goes. I think you'll be surprised.

For perspective, I'm a very skinny guy (not a lot of natural insulation). I run probably average to slightly above average in terms of heat when moving, but get cold very easily when I stop. I can skin in just a base layer, or sometimes with a very light and breathable wind/softshell (BD Alpine Start) down to freezing and even a bit below. On days where it's sunny and no wind, I might even get into the mid to low twenties with just that. As it gets colder, a light fleece below a wind or softshell can go a long way. I've never worn a First Light, but just looking at the specs it would have to be pretty cold before I even think about skinning in that.

Then, as @Analisa said, when you stop, you need a heavier puffy jacket to throw on to keep you warm when static. Down has a lot of advantages, but a major drawback with water. Many people refuse to wear down in the PNW, although I like down myself. I figure you're going to be pretty miserable if your synthetic jacket gets wet even if it still technically maintains more insulating power. So you have to be careful either way.

In short, I suspect you're wearing too much when moving, and not enough when static.

i agree with almost everything Analisa said, and great write-up. The one thing I'm a bit skeptical on is this.
not to belabor the point, but one time I set up camp in a freezing, damp wind, and I jumped in the tent and just threw my puffy on on top of my shell. I wasn't warming up, and my friend was finally like "take your shell off, the puffy can't capture any body heat if it can't get past the membrane." And sure enough, I lost a layer yet got warmer.
I'm not in the industry and don't have the detailed insider knowledge you do. But I'm fairly certain that's not how the physics of insulation works. Heat can be retained or lost, regardless of whether air, water, or whatever can move through it, via the process of conduction. For example, metals are shit insulators because heat is conducted through them easily, despite the surface being completely impermeable. Furthermore, if the shell was trapping body heat so effectively that it couldn't reach the down jacket, you wouldn't need the down jacket to start with and the shell would provide all the insulation you need. But that's not really how insulation works. You're trying to spread the temperature gradient over a thicker, non-heat-conductive medium so that less conductive heat loss occurs, while also halting convective heat loss (basically warm air currents moving away from you). The shell really only does the latter (okay a bit of the former too because it traps a layer of air between you and it, but not as much as a puffy does), while the puffy should do some of both. As a sanity check on what I'm saying, the entire concept of a belay puffy would be pretty much invalidated if what you describe is correct.
 

Slim

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I could have written most of what @CascadeConcrete said. I too am skinny, run hot while moving and cold when stopped
And indeed, synthetics are not warm when wet. The only thing that is warm when wet is a wetsuit.
The big benefit of synthetics is that it takes a bit longer for them to fully wet out, and most importanty, it is a lot easier/faster to dry them than down.

The way I was going to say it was, building on @Analisa ‘s excellent explanation of fabrics and examples of layers, was:

Take a step back, look at the big picture.
What is the issue, and what is causing it.
Basically we are generating heat by movement, and a bit of moisture at all times, but a lot of moisture if we get hot.
We gain heat from the sun, and lose it to wind and cold temperatures.
We also get moisture from precipitation.

So, the very first step is to make sure we balance heat production with heat loss. Not only is that more comfortable temperature wise, but it reduces sweat production, allowing us to stay dryer, independent of the breathability of our clothing.

The hardest thing for me (and I think most people) is adapting to to varying conditions. I also hate stopping, taking packs and layers off and putting them back on.

When you think about it, air temperature tends to not change very rapidly. But, in open terrain (mountains), wind and solar radiation can change rapidly, as does precipitation.

For this reason, I have moved to to thinner insulation values,and more wind proof shells, often waterproof too.
In practice this ends up looking like lightweight/fishnet/no baselayer, followed by very open insulation layer (Pata thermal weight Capilene or Polartech Alpha), covered by a very breathable waterpoof shell with fairly low air permeability, and high breathability.
Most importantly, large venting options like full zippers, pitzips, venting pockets etc.

For pants his is almost the only option.

This reduces the influence wind has, and allows me to regulate for changing effort levels, wind and solar radios by opening and closing vents.

It does mean, I need a warm layer to add for the descent, and often an addional, insulation layer (‘belay parka’ ) for rest stops.
 

charlier

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I rarely get too warm going uphill. Mostly, starting warm and staying warm. A thin 150
Merino wool base layer and Arc’teryx mid-layer is perfect in the interior B.C. winter and early spring. My pants are Arc’teryx Procline hybrid pant. The pants are very nice, but the pocket is a bit small fir a Mammut transceiver. The pants run small though.

While working in the Washington Cascades, finding lightweight hard shell pants are more problematic. I need pants that last more than one season, waterproof, and are trim to fit.

Picture while guiding last winter. Snug, warm, and happy with my oeeps

79C7E7FF-31FB-4737-9B88-32C1C57AC053.jpeg
 
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Other Aaron

Other Aaron

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@charlier , the too warm was aimed at @Other Aaron , who was talking about being sweaty, and had quite a bit of warm stuff listed.
Im usually pretty good on the up. Its when im trying to use my hardshell to trap heat that things start getting muggy. And then when Im stationary, I just dont have the right insulation to keep me warm

@Analisa im planning on picking up the rei magma and Rab electron during this current sale. Some new base layers. And probably the mammut nordwand or Mountain hardwear exposure series for shells
 
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Thread Starter
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Other Aaron

Other Aaron

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@charlier ,
Given the tough conditions (as discussed above), I would flip the whole idea upside down, and instead of looking for something more waterproof, I would go for pants made from Nikwax Analogy.
This is a non-coating/membrane waterpoof system.

Short version of how it works is a micro ridged liner fabric, that is treated with wash in DWR, and a finely woven fabric outer shell (aka windshirt). The surface tension of water drops is to high to allow them to ‘squeezed into the ‘valleys’ of the liner fabric. At the same time, vapor can pass unhindered.
Even liquid water on the inside, that gets squished into the smooth inner face of the liner, will be expelled.

It sounds unbelievable to me, but they have been around for years, in Great Britain, a fairly wet location :ogbiggrin: . There are many reviews and tests by reputable sources.
I have now personally owned several garments , and even in a thunderstorm, stayed dry from rain.

It has pros and cons compared to traditional membrane/coating fabrics:

  • It needs frequent retreating of the DWR with a wash in product, because it relies 100% on the surface energy to keep you dry. So, I wouldn’t choose it for a two week backpacking trip in wet conditions.
  • It also has a fair thickness, which creates warmth, so I don’t choose it for warm spring days.
  • It has no hydrostatic head, so if you kneel or sit on wet surfaces, it gets damp on the seat or knees.
  • It is not super light, so I don’t use it if I think it will spend most of its time in my pack.
But, it excels in the conditions you mention: cold and wet with high activity:
  • It is super breathable
  • it moves liquid moisture out
  • it is comfy next to skin, so you do not need to wear a baselayer (which holds moisture as you mention).
  • it is super comfortable and quiet. It has a soft and supple hand.
  • It can be repaired easily (no seam taping!)
  • it has some insuLatino value, so you can wear it with fewer layers underneath. This means that when you get hot, and you open venting zips, you are dumping much more heat, much quicker, than opening vents on a shell only.
  • Ethical manufacturing
  • as mentioned above, for performance in those condtions, you need to retreat DWR regularly anyway.

I got my pants and jacket from Cioch Direct, because they are custom makers, and I needed that for fit reasons. I am on my second set after wearing out the first pair (straight up worn through the nylon face fabrics, after several years of near daily wear in the colder seasons).
We had pants and jackets for the kids too when they were little from Cioch.
My wife has a jacket from Paramo.


View attachment 182788


In the pic below (at -5 F) I am wearing both the pants and the jacket. They were totally happy to do custom options, like doubled layers of the Analogy liner fabric on seat and knees for extra warmth where I get cold, and a hybrid high-waisted pants-with-suspenders-only design.
View attachment 182789
Hey, Slim,
Wondering if you had an update review on your MADE jacket? How
Hmm, that’s surprising,

@charlier i am sure my legs are skinnier than yours! :ogbiggrin: When I measure for knee pads, I am in S or M (at 6’5” and 172lbs).


So maybe it’s because the La Liste is more freeride oriented? And therefor a baggier cut?
I have an older version Eisfeld Advanced pant, and all though it’s not tight, it’s definitely a trim fit.
View attachment 182796

I also have their regular Schoeller pant and it too is a perfect, trim fit.

My 13 y.o. daughter (in front)had both the Eisfeld Guide and the Goretex Nordwand pant, and again, both are a pretty trim fit.
View attachment 182795

Still, the only way to get a perfect fit is with custom sizing.
As mentioned above, I have been happy with my Cioch Direct pants, both for the Analogy fabric performance and the custom fit and options. It could have been a hair longer, so don’t skimp on the inseam measurement if you do order from them.

I also waiting for new, thin, pants from Made Apparel. I got the jacket already, and it fits perfect. I specified regular fit, and that’s what I got (meaning it fits ‘regular fit‘ on my tall and skinny frame: 35” chest, 15.75” neck, 37” sleeve), so I trust the pant will be good too.
They use Dermizax though, so no Idea on breathabilty/waterproofness.
Hey Slim,
Do you have a review update on your Made apparel?
 

Slim

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Hey, Slim,
Wondering if you had an update review on your MADE jacket? How

Hey Slim,
Do you have a review update on your Made apparel
Jacket I chose Neoair.
Pants were delayed, they were having pattern issues. Got them 3 weeks ago, but the fit was off. Basically, they fit great if they were dress pants/jeans. Too tight for technical gear.
They offered me a video call with their designer. She said that had happened to more. So they would make me a new pair, but those are still in shipping.

So, I bet their fit will be a lot better straight off the bat, in future, as they made these pattern adjustments.

So, no info on fabric performance.
 

Rod9301

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@Slim and @Other Aaron - my legs were 100% wet from leaking, along with my colleagues. We thought that the Skyward Pants did not hold up after one year at most (e.g., 60 days or so). Forgot to add - I kneel on my knees a lot. I need to read the comments and will get back to all. Thanks
I tour almost exclusively in softshell pants and i was l sawed waterproof patches on my knees so when climbing a couloir my knees don't freeze
 
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