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Literature

Tony Storaro

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MOD NOTE: The initial posts in this thread have been brought over from the Should the Needs of the Few Outweigh the Needs of the Many thread.


You know, I have been thinking a lot about this these days and I came to the conclusion that yes, manufacturers should keep their standards as high as possible, making the best possible ski and if someone finds them too demanding and difficult, this someone should go back to the drawing board and start anew.

Everything else would equal betrayal of ones own standards and catering to a crowd of idiots who are unwilling to put effort.

Can you imagine Salinger sitting quietly and thinking: Well perhaps I should explain the significance of Sybil's bath suite being blue in the eyes of Seymour when in reality it was yellow. Should I tell them why it was blue?......Nah...f*ck that s*it man, I aint explaining anything, whoever gets it, gets it and these are the precious few I am writing for. All the rest can just sod off, right now!


Jeez, I LOVE Salinger!
 
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DanoT

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You know, I have been thinking a lot about this these days and I came to the conclusion that yes, manufacturers should keep their standards as high as possible, making the best possible ski and if someone finds them too demanding and difficult, this someone should go back to the drawing board and start anew.

Everything else would equal betrayal of ones own standards and catering to a crowd of idiots who are unwilling to put effort.

Can you imagine Salinger sitting quietly and thinking: Well perhaps I should explain the significance of Sybil's bath suite being blue in the eyes of Seymour when in reality it was yellow. Should I tell them why it was blue?......Nah...f*ck that s*it man, I aint explaining anything, whoever gets it, gets it and these are the precious few I am writing for. All the rest can just sod off, right now!


Jeez, I LOVE Salinger!

I guess I should "sod off" along with the rest of the internet because when I Googled "Salinger" all that came up was J.D. Salinger, the guy who wrote "Catcher In the Rye" 70 years ago. I don't think that is who you are talking about so it would seem everyone has sodded off and @Tony Storaro you are left being a tough guy, full of bravado, but talking to yourself.
 
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Tony Storaro

Tony Storaro

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I guess I should "sod off" along with the rest of the internet because when I Googled "Salinger" all that came up was J.D. Salinger, the guy who wrote "Catcher In the Rye" 70 years ago.

Yes. This J.D. Salinger. But The Catcher is not what I am referring to.
 

fatbob

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Fine but I think Catcher is not the globally important novel people who discovered it in US high school think it is. Plus AIUI (basically remember a fairly lengthy podcast about it) it basically ruined Salinger's life as he could only thereafter dabble in short stories and nothing ever reached its heights.

Where's this going? Who knows? Maybe people who want to take extreme positions about the purity of purpose of something shouldn't be pandered to excessively and they should have to discover their own art while rough artisans are adequate for the rest of us.
 
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Tony Storaro

Tony Storaro

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Fine but I think Catcher is not the globally important novel people who discovered it in US high school think it is.

Catcher is, compared to the other works of the Great J.D. like Charge of the Light Brigade compared to Operation Barbarossa.

If you know what I mean.

Catcher, although being perhaps the most famous work of the man who is for me the greatest American novelist ever-yes, better than Hemingway, Fitzgerald,Faulkner, Steinbeck, Twain, Vonnegut, Miller, Updike, Lewis, Capote and even better than....God forgive me...Kerouac...is just a light warm-up before the 9 stories/Glass family. Now THIS is what I am referring to.

This is the finest, most complete, most sophisticated, most full of references prose you will ever encounter in your life.

Well, except for Marcus Aurelius that is. And the Pali cannon.....but this is entirely different, so please disregard.
 

mdf

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Fine but I think Catcher is not the globally important novel people who discovered it in US high school think it is.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Man, I loved Catcher in the Rye when I read it in high school. I remember some of it 50 years later, so it must have made an impression. (Hmmm... wonder if that's why rye is my whisky of choice... nah.)

But looking back, Holden was a whiny entitled little jerk.
 

Bruno Schull

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@ Tony Storaro: Salinger the greatest American author? I don't agree. I would say that Mark Twain is probably the best and most distinctive American author, followed by others, like Melville, Faulkner, Hemigway, and so on. As to the Sallinger references (bathroom color) do you think inside references are what make good literature? To be clear, I like Sallinger very much, but I don't think he brought much that was truly new to the table. But you know....as with books so with skis and skiing....to each their own.
 
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Tony Storaro

Tony Storaro

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@ Tony Storaro: Salinger the greatest American author? I don't agree. I would say that Mark Twain is probably the best and most distinctive American author, followed by others, like Melville, Faulkner, Hemigway, and so on. As to the Sallinger references (bathroom color)

He is.

Bathsuit. Bathing suit. The stuff little girls wear when on bananafish fishing trip. Not bathroom.

We aren't on the same page Dear Mr. Schull.

No offence.
 

Bruno Schull

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Funny, you wrote "bath suite" so I naturally assumed you were talking about some obscure Sallinger story with a colored bathroom. I understand now that you meant "suit" and not "suite." Precision in language is important!

Interesting that you mention that story about banana fish (great story, by the way). I have a lifelong debate with a good friend, who is a fan of Sallinger, about what that story means or does not mean. I hold that it describes an act of child abuse. He says that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I love him dearly, but I think he just doesn't want to admit the truth about the tale.

Anyway, your suggestion that we're not on the same page, do you mean that, broadly speaking, we don't have the same understanding of and appreciation for literature? I am I to believe that, in addition to skiing only the steepest and iciest tracks at the most exclusive resort, and using only the highest quality samurai sword skis, and allowing no space in the world for anything else, you are also the undisputed master of world literature? Now that really is funny! My bookshelf is bigger than yours!

Jokes aside, I try to be honest and clear on the internet. I don't like to use irony or memes to make my points, so I'll state this as simply as possible.

Your posts, here and elsewhere, display a bravado that verges on arrogance. Your contributions appear to be crafted mostly to buttress your view of yourself, and telegraph that view to others. Of course, this is common and unsurprising on the internet. Posting clips of puerile movies like Knockaround guys, and pictures of short swords, does little to bolster your credibility. There are deeply-experienced and incredibly-skilled individuals on this site, but I see no evidence that you fall into this category.

I'm happy to discuss anything with you, be it skis or literature, but, if you are going to keep posting, cut out the elitist posturing, and explain yourself clearly. For example, "Why don't you think that beginners have the right to enjoy a day on skis designed to facilitate their experience?" Or, "Why do you think Sallinger is the greatest American author?"

Let's hear it. Then we can have a real discussion.
 
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Bruno Schull

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Paging the ski talk moderators! Do you think we could take all the literature discussion out of this thread, and start a new thread, with a title like "The greatest American author?" of something like that? Lots of other things are discussed on Skitalk (cars, music, jokes, dogs)...why not books?

In this way, discussion of literature would not confuse and detract from the discussions about skis for a narrow or broad market.
 

fatbob

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To be honest the literature discussion is more interesting than the ski argument which is somewhat pointless and only relies on opinion as the ski cos seem to have no intention of focusing appropriately e.g. see the thread about Augment's twin tips .

Salinger has always seemed a somewhat dubious character with his preferences for women much younger than himself but then artists always were able to attract muses.....

Are there age appropriate skis?
 

Lorenzzo

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To be honest the literature discussion is more interesting than the ski argument which is somewhat pointless and only relies on opinion as the ski cos seem to have no intention of focusing appropriately e.g. see the thread about Augment's twin tips .

Salinger has always seemed a somewhat dubious character with his preferences for women much younger than himself but then artists always were able to attract muses.....

Are there age appropriate skis?
I'm not sure. But there are bad Hemingway skis.
 

Uncle-A

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Paging the ski talk moderators! Do you think we could take all the literature discussion out of this thread, and start a new thread, with a title like "The greatest American author?" of something like that? Lots of other things are discussed on Skitalk (cars, music, jokes, dogs)...why not books?

In this way, discussion of literature would not confuse and detract from the discussions about skis for a narrow or broad market.
Nothing wrong with a book thread for the off season time frame.
 

fatbob

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I'm not sure. But there are bad Hemingway skis.

Ah but not bad Hemingway related forum posts

From TGR alltime gold

"I realize there is not much hope for a bulIfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets. But these qualities as of yet may gratefully not be purchased or rented at any price."
 

Bruno Schull

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Literature! I love books. Lifelong reader and writer, in a family of readers and writers.

Anyway, Sallinger was a great writer, but a rather messed-up person (like many artists). How should we interpret A Perfect Day for Bananafish? Well, to me the sexual inuendo is so obvious is makes me fall out of my chair, but obviously other people don't feel that way. Bear in mind, this is not my "woke" contemporary reading--it's the first thing I thought of when I read the story as a teenager, over thirty years ago. In my experience, Sallinger fans are a particularly sensitive lot--they really object to anybody suggesting that their cherished characters, like Seymour Glass, have anything but the most innocent intentions. I argue that Sallinger's life, and his whole body of work, including the Catcher in the Rye, support a sexual interpretation of Bannafish. Either way, it's a great story.

Hemingway: he's bound to come on a thread like this! I'm not sure there are Hemigway skis, but there are definitely Hemingway skiers! You know, macho, sexist, alcoholic, brutish, bragging bores! As above, Hemingway was a great writer, but a terrible, messed up person.

Don't get me wrong: I love Hemingway's work. I've read everything he's written, fiction and non-fiction, most books multiple times. When I wrote my own book, The Long Season, it was really just an attempt to write about bicycle racing in the style of Hemingway. I will regret that literary and creative mistake for the rest of my life. When I think about it now, I just want to crawl into a hole and hide. At the same time, nobody has ever written about bicycle racing the same way, or even tried to, so there's that. Warning: don't read my book unless you want to learn way more about bicycle racing, and the 1995 season in Europe, than you ever thought possible. Available on Amazon if you're interested. And no, this is not a plug for my book. What did I make on that book? A few hundred bucks? Certainly not enough to compensate for the six years of my life that it consumed.

Anyway, as you can imagine, I have mixed feelings about Hemingway. I do occasionally re-read certain passages or sections. The scenes about the dog Kibo and the strained relationship between father and son and the terrible elephant hunt from his later work still bring tears to my eyes. Hunting is a terrible thing. The only hunting I'll do is with a camera. There--I've done it--brought up another controversial theme!
 

cantunamunch

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Well, except for Marcus Aurelius that is.

Which translation are you using?


Everything else would equal betrayal of ones own standards and catering to a crowd of idiots who are unwilling to put effort.

There is rather an unwitting joke in the current title of this scion thread, then. I refer, of course, to agitprop, or by its cuddly name 'literature'. Have a leaflet. Take a flyer.


You serious?

Man, I stopped reading right there, I am going to bite my f*cking throat off....like...right now...This is just too much....

I get the same reaction when I tell people 'Norwegian Wood' was written by a narcissist oik, and is all about sociopath empowerment.
 
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Tony Storaro

Tony Storaro

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Which translation are you using?

Ermm...translation? I only read originals man. ;)












Jus kiddin. Need to check. First read it in my own language then in English but can't say off the top of my head which one exactly.


But this opens an entirely new line of discussion-how much can we trust the translations to be as close to the originals as possible.
Not easy this one.
Take Douglas Adams for example-I read it in y mother tongue when I was a kid, then read the original, then again-in my language but in different translation. Very very different. So I am questioning now ALL the translations.
For you it is different as extremely significant body of the literature, which in my opinion deserves attention, is written in English so you just open the book and read but I am thinking: how many of the books I read before I could speak and read English did I understand correctly?
I guess it must be the same for you when reading The Master and Margarita or War and Peace (if you have the nerves to endure all of it that is).

The question becomes even more important when talking about real important stuff-for instance: Do we really know what Jesus has really said? I don't know many people who speak Aramaic. I have only read translations, so how do I know? Or do we REALLY know what The Buddha has said. This one is even more difficult as for more than 500 years the Pali canon has been transmitted as oral tradition.
Do we really know what we think we know? Hehe, thanks for opening this ginormously big can of worms.
 
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