Professional Golf LIV, DP and PGA merge!

[fatbob]

Surely the not for profit bit is just because its a sporting association and pays out enough of its profits to players as purses. That's where equity stakes from external investors get interesting because they will want a return and they'll likely want some toughnosed business folk in there to get it rather than chummy old boys from the PGA.

 

[crgildart]

So if the players each own as share of the PGA any speculation on what they're pocketing from the "settlement/agreement"? I mean the folks who claim they weren't told about the deal and are upset about it.. are they getting a huge check? I'd think so.. probably enough to walk away if they decide they don't want to play Sun City...

My guess would be that the ones who already took the LIV money don't get that payout, only the players who said no to it are now getting it anyway as owners in the organization.

 

[jmeb]

So if the players each own as share of the PGA any speculation on what they're pocketing from the "settlement/agreement"?

This is complete, baseless speculation. There is no indication that any direct payouts to players are part of this deal. Tour players have never gotten profit sharing or equity payments from the Tour. Player's payment from the PGA Tour historically has been purse money only. Which is why making cuts (which is the only way you get paid by the Tour to cover your travel, caddy costs, entry fees, etc) is so important to pros.

The fact that they only get paid in purse money from the PGA Tour (leaving sponorships aside which is a whole other can of worms) is exactly why the LIV tour was so enticing to many pros.

Will this deal increase purse sizes? I'd wager yes. Will this deal change the structure of how pros get paid? I wouldn't put money on it.

 

[crgildart]

The fact that they only get paid in purse money from the PGA Tour (leaving sponorships aside which is a whole other can of worms) is exactly why the LIV tour was so enticing to many pros.

Will this deal increase purse sizes? I'd wager yes. Will this deal change the structure of how pros get paid? I wouldn't put money on it.

The players who DIDN'T take the $XXXM LIV offer getting similar compensation as part of this deal seems like a no brainer here though doesn't it? No way they get left hanging for nothing while the LIV players + their hundo mill plus are allowed back in to PGA.

 

[fatbob]

The players who DIDN'T take the $XXXM LIV offer getting similar compensation as part of this deal seems like a no brainer here though doesn't it? No way they get left hanging for nothing while the LIV players + their hundo mill plus are allowed back in to PGA.

I'd have thought there needs to be some sweeteners back to the PGA guys from the money PIF put in even if its just to salve egos on the bonzana they turned down. How they do it? Maybe not direct payments but PGA "loyalty/ranking bonuses" on purses?

 

[Philpug]

With the hundreds of players on the PGA Tour how exactly to you propose that there should be equitable payouts? Rory stands by the statement that he was never offered anything to join LIV, should he get something?

 

[fatbob]

With the hundreds of players on the PGA Tour how exactly to you propose that there should be equitable payouts? Rory stands by the statement that he was never offered anything to join LIV, should he get something?

Seems implausible that he was never approached but maybe devil is in the detailed wording "How receptive would you be if we make you a substantial offer?" "No thanks, never" No offer is actually made.

Equitable is easy just give it on end of season rankings with added bonus that there will be more interest in tail end season tournaments if there is a one time offer bonus.

 

[scott43]

I mean, what alternative is there at this point?? Players have zero leverage now..

 

[Philpug]

Players have zero leverage now..

Now? By the way this went down, they never did.

 

[Philpug]

From a birds eye view, this is like the NFL (PGA) - AFL (DP) merger with XFL (LIV) brought in for color.

Greg Norman saying the LIV Tour is not going away ... I am not sure if he are trying to convince us ... or himself. I find it very interesting that he was kept out of the negotiations almost like "Thanks very much Greg, we got it from here, her is a lifetime supply of Pro-VI's and a (push) golf cart."

 

[dbostedo]

Now? By the way this went down, they never did.

Well there was leverage to be had when it was "I can stay/play on the PGA tour, or I can get paid a fee to join LIV". That part is gone.

 

[jmeb]

The players who DIDN'T take the $XXXM LIV offer getting similar compensation as part of this deal seems like a no brainer here though doesn't it? No way they get left hanging for nothing while the LIV players + their hundo mill plus are allowed back in to PGA.

So -- as I said, pure speculation. I'm not sure "No Brainer" logic can be used in such a messed up situation without much historic precedent. Yes -- PGA players are pissed, but their options for other ways to play competitive golf among the best in the world are nil. Which is why the Tour holds such power.

Now? By the way this went down, they never did.

Exactly. I have some hope that this leads to players organizing in a way that gives them more power. I don't have a lot of belief that will happen.

 

[S.H.]

My skepticism is that...
The PGA is a not for profit that is merging with mega $$$.
They say that parts of this entity will be for profit while the PGA as an association will remain non profit.
It's really hard for me to believe that the LIV people will slowly take over the positions in the heirarchy of the PGA.

Its always about the $$$
If LIV is bringing the money to the table, and PGA is bringing the players and sponsor opportunities, then the balance will land squarely on the side of who is bringing the most $$

The PIF has a minority equity stake in the new partnership.

 

[S.H.]

Surely the not for profit bit is just because its a sporting association and pays out enough of its profits to players as purses. That's where equity stakes from external investors get interesting because they will want a return and they'll likely want some toughnosed business folk in there to get it rather than chummy old boys from the PGA.

and donations to the communities in the areas around the tournaments.

 

[crgildart]

Equitable is easy just give it on end of season rankings with added bonus that there will be more interest in tail end season tournaments if there is a one time offer bonus.

Should the players who took the LIV bonus be excluded from those or will the amount they took be a deductible where they only get what exceeds that (if anything does)?

 

[Philpug]

Rory needs to make up his mind, he is saying the LIV guys coming back will take spots from players then when Greyson Murray questions him he told him to "Play better". What I have always like about golf was other than sponsor exemptions, getting into tournaments was merit based, you earned you way in by playing better. Maybe the LIV golfers don't qualify for exemptions for the next X amount of years. What people forget about Tiger was the amount of spots that he opened up for other players with all of the wins and qualifying he earned.

 

[S.H.]

Rory needs to make up his mind, he is saying the LIV guys coming back will take spots from players then when Greyson Murray questions him he told him to "Play better". What I have always like about golf was other than sponsor exemptions, getting into tournaments was merit based, you earned you way in by playing better. Maybe the LIV golfers don't qualify for exemptions for the next X amount of years. What people forget about Tiger was the amount of spots that he opened up for other players with all of the wins and qualifying he earned.

Nobody else has been logically consistent throughout this, no need to single out Rory.

 

[Philpug]

Nobody else has been logically consistent throughout this, no need to single out Rory.

Rory has been the most vocal about LIV since day 1 and has made himself the face to be singled out.

 

[S.H.]

Rory has been the most vocal about LIV since day 1 and has made himself the face to be singled out.

Sure, but you can also hold the two things true.

LIV players coming back to the PGAT in 2024 will reduce opportunities for lower ranked players. Lower ranked players will need to play better to get into the better/higher profile tournaments.

Rory's position generally seems to be that this is happening, he doesn't like it, but at least there'll be more $$ in golf, which is generally a good thing. I think he's made up his mind about it.

 

[Tricia]

I'd be curious to know how many people in this thread followed golf prior to this news

Rory needs to make up his mind, he is saying the LIV guys coming back will take spots from players then when Greyson Murray questions him he told him to "Play better". What I have always like about golf was other than sponsor exemptions, getting into tournaments was merit based, you earned you way in by playing better. Maybe the LIV golfers don't qualify for exemptions for the next X amount of years. What people forget about Tiger was the amount of spots that he opened up for other players with all of the wins and qualifying he earned.

Right now this is a moving target and we don't really know everything yet. Likely never will know everything.