Long and heavy charger skis

[GregK]

Blister weighted the Cochise 185 at 2235g when the Bonafide 177 came in at 2280g. The smaller, narrow Bonafide weights more?

Think it was just a heavier than average pair of Bonafide 97s and a lighter than average pair of Cochise 106 as they both should be similar weights in similar lengths. Blizzard has the 177cm Bonafide 97 listed at 2200 grams and the 183cm Bonafide 97 and 185cm Cochise 106 both listed at 2320 grams each.

Not uncommon for the wider skis to use lighter wood cores, less metal or lighter weight fibreglass etc in order to keep the weight from getting too high and flex too stiff for skis biased for softer snow or powder.

 

[NE1]

Blister weighted the Cochise 185 at 2235g when the Bonafide 177 came in at 2280g. The smaller, narrow Bonafide weights more?

Kinda depends on what's inside. Like muscle weighs more than fat.

 

[AEV]

You mean muscle is more dense than fat..

5lbs of muscle weighs the same as 5lbs of fat

I think we all know what you meant

 

[Rod9301]

Bonafides are not charger skis, tips are way too soft.

 

[Drahtguy Kevin]

Bonafides are not charger skis, tips are way too soft.

They used to be but were made more “accessible” a few years ago.

 

[François Pugh]

Bonafides are not charger skis, tips are way too soft.

And the turn radius too short, if by "charger" you mean suitable for high speed turns.

They used to be but were made more “accessible” a few years ago.

Standard charger ski devolution - once the 1 percenters have bought their true charger ski, make it easier to ski and sell it to the non-chargers who want a charger ski for the lift lines even if it can't "charge".

 

[AEV]

Some TGR chargers have said the new 189 Bonafide 97s are pretty darn fast. I agree the turn radius looks short, but 2400g for a 97mm ski is pretty nice to see

 

[GregK]

The new Bonafide 97 has a great weight and flex pattern but definitely is held back by it’s turning radius like it’s Enforcer brothers. If the 183cm(and 185/186cm Enforcers) had a 20m plus radius, it would be much more attractive for high speed cruising. The 189cm Bonafide definitely rips but I’m sure it will be the lowest selling length as it’s “too much ski” for most skiers.

Charger skis are such a niche market that sales pale in comparison to their lighter and “easier to ski” replacements. Bet the Head Monsters and Flight series sales were a tiny fraction compared to what the Kores are now doing for them.

 

[tomahawkins]

Charger skis are such a niche market that sales pale in comparison to their lighter and “easier to ski” replacements. Bet the Head Monsters and Flight series sales were a tiny fraction compared to what the Kores are now doing for them.

And yet the Kores were first to go on deep clearance this spring, while the Brahmas and Bonafides had no noticeable price drop. If fact lots of stores started selling '22 Blizzard Bull models at full price, which I suspect were just leftover '21 stock. But with the same constructions and topsheet, who's to tell the difference. Honestly, I hope more of the industry adopts multi-year production models.

 

[GregK]

All ski models go for 40% off starting mid March where I shop and they still have some 183cm Bonafide 97 and some Brahma 82 stock at 40% off but Cochise 106 and Brahma 88 stock is gone. Lots of Kore stock on sale but their inventory of that line is HUGE vs any other lineup. Took years to sell off their Monster inventory even with larger discounts.

Remember many dealers selling out of Kores before the season barely started their first year and they continue to do huge numbers. Not a fan of Kores in the least but they sell very well.

Would definitely help dealers who didn’t manage inventory correctly if models did change every year that’s for sure. Don’t mind the “top sheet graphics” update as much as the “total redesign” every year on models and you have to guess if the new or existing one is better for you.

 

[Castle Dave]

My wife and I both have the first generation Cochise and will never and can never replace them.

 

[tomahawkins]

Did anyone find it odd that Blister reviewed the Bonafide in a 177 for 2021? Typically they review the longest length in a model, but in this case they were two sizes below the largest size. I wonder if Blizzard intentionally sent them that length thinking that would produce the most favorable review -- they did give it pretty high marks.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

Interesting that the Brahma 88 came up in this thread, I was considering adding that to my quiver as my drought ski. Looking for something for the days when it hasnt snowed in a week and the entire offpiste is compacted snow and unpredictable bumps. But then can carve some fun groomers… btw my mantra 102 191 showed up yesterday, i think those will be fun!

 

[GregK]

I think the old 180cm versions of the Brahmas and the Bonafides were probably the best sellers and the “reference” length when there was just 4 length options. Now that there are 5 length options and they are so different between those lengths I bet the 177cm will now be the most popular size in those models.
In the Blister review of the Bonafide 97 with 150-175lb skiers they felt no need to go to longer lengths but it would have been nice for them to confirm the differences in feel between the 177cm and 183cm models. In the SkiEssentials review of the Bonafide 97, I remember them trying various lengths with the same skier.

Brahma 88 are great skis and would be a great choice for a harder snow/between storms type of ski but they aren’t the most loose off piste as they are more groomer biased. Enforcer 88 won’t grip as well on piste but more fun off piste. Both don’t have super long turning radius though unless you go to the longest lengths.

I went to the 2021 183cm Candide 1.0 for that type of ski for next year. It’s like similar weight and flex Brahma 88 with longer turning radius that happens to be a twin tip with a very centered mount. This model is going way lighter next year with a different shape so take advantage of the $450 CAN/$360 US deals now if you want a great ski made in the Fisher plant alongside their race skis. Longest length of 183cm though but their “twin tip Bonafide 97” Candide 2.0(102mm) going to 188cm. 2400 grams in the 188cm CT 2.0

I get my 2nd set of 2021 CT 3.0 skis tomorrow but this time in the 190cm length, so Christmas in July over here too!

 

[AngryAnalyst]

I think the old 180cm versions of the Brahmas and the Bonafides were probably the best sellers and the “reference” length when there was just 4 length options. Now that there are 5 length options and they are so different between those lengths I bet the 177cm will now be the most popular size in those models.
In the Blister review of the Bonafide 97 with 150-175lb skiers they felt no need to go to longer lengths but it would have been nice for them to confirm the differences in feel between the 177cm and 183cm models. In the SkiEssentials review of the Bonafide 97, I remember them trying various lengths with the same skier.

Brahma 88 are great skis and would be a great choice for a harder snow/between storms type of ski but they aren’t the most loose off piste as they are more groomer biased. Enforcer 88 won’t grip as well on piste but more fun off piste. Both don’t have super long turning radius though unless you go to the longest lengths.

I went to the 2021 183cm Candide 1.0 for that type of ski for next year. It’s like similar weight and flex Brahma 88 with longer turning radius that happens to be a twin tip with a very centered mount. This model is going way lighter next year with a different shape so take advantage of the $450 CAN/$360 US deals now if you want a great ski made in the Fisher plant alongside their race skis. Longest length of 183cm though but their “twin tip Bonafide 97” Candide 2.0(102mm) going to 188cm. 2400 grams in the 188cm CT 2.0

I get my 2nd set of 2021 CT 3.0 skis tomorrow but this time in the 190cm length, so Christmas in July over here too!

Fine, you convinced me.

2.0 or 3.0 for variable conditions but mostly harder snow?

 

[GregK]

Fine, you convinced me.

2.0 or 3.0 for variable conditions but mostly harder snow?

CT 2.0 has less rocker, additional metal and dampening so it would be the choice for mostly harder snow. Mount -3cm behind the Candide line if you’re a more traditional skier. Really is a great ski line up and it’s a shame it’s going lighter next year.
The 1.0 has the same build but a little less rocker, less taper and 10mm skinnier.

What’s your size/normal ski length preference?

I’m 6’2”/175 and ski the 183cm in 1.0 and 2.0, 184cm in 3.0 and adding the 190cm 3.0 for a “lower coverage” powder ski. I went -1.5 to 2cm back from Candide as I’m used to more centered mounts but still drive my skis.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

I'm guessing from that the 2.0 in 188 is the way to go. Agree/disagree @GregK ?

I'm 6 ft/220. The same use case skis I own are Volkl Mantra 102 in a 191 and Dynastar LP. I'm hoping the Candide is close to as damp and stable but more playful for smaller mountains when I'm more likely to spend more time on jumps and less trying to go super fast. Is that realistic?

 

[ScottB]

I think Greg is the best to answer the size question. I have been following this thread and I bought the 2021 CT 3.0 in 190cm. I am 6'4", 240 and think that is the right size for me. I have a Brahma in 187cm and a Salomon X-Drive 8.8 in 184 cm. The Brahama is a lot of ski in 187, but I would not want to drop to 180cm which was the older sizes. The X-Drive in 184 in plenty long for me, just right I would say. My CT 3.0 is stiffer than the Brahma and softer than the X-Drive in hand flexing. I think you could be fine with the 183 cm CT 2.0, but they are twin tips, so maybe the 188 is the way to go. Either one would probably work for you, and again, GregK has been on the CT 2.0 so he has the best judgment.

 

[AngryAnalyst]

More than length I wasn't sure about 2.0 vs. 3.0. I don't want a powder ski so if everyone agrees the 2.0 is the way to go, then it's 188. The only reason I hesitate is that sometimes the added width brings additional stability.

 

[ScottB]

I'm looking for something big and beefy, but can also ski some big funky moguls and some tighter spots. MPro105 will not do that. Maybe that 21m radius on the Katana 108 will allow for that.

I'm a bit disappointed in the 2022 Declivity 108ti. It's more like the thinner ones, not like the big brother. I just bought an Armada Declivity X, and it seems like a true charger for sure. It's bigger and beefier than my 189 Billy Goats, and much more racey looking in the sidecut department. Lots of camber through the tail, I expect it to be much better on firm and all mountain than the BGs, more like a wide daily driver. 2500gs/ski. Wish the new 108ti was more like this, and around 2350g/ski all mountain crusher with less taper.

That ski I'm looking for might be the Commander 108. The 194 probably has a true length of 192cm, which is perfect for me. The 188 is 2330g/ski, so I figure the 194 is over 2400g/ski. I love how Moments ski on firm snow too. My only concern is how well it picks through tight spots as a big ski.

So based on this post, the 188 cm is the right length. I was considering a Moment Wildcat in 190 as a playful charger and day or two after a storm ski. The 3.0 is 112mm underfoot and compares to the 118mm Wildcat. The 2.0 is 102mm underfoot I think, and is more like the 108 Wildcat/Commander I think. So I think the 2.0 is what you want.

GregK and Anders have both the 2.0 and 3.0 and will respond I am sure. GregK posted a review on the two skis as well.

The Never-Ending Faction Discussion

Is this marked on the ski or do we need to specify when mounting? On the Candide skis, just the “Candide mount point” is marked, so you have to measure back 1.5cm from that line. I always get a piece of masking tape and measure my desired length back from the top of that piece of tape(bottom...

www.skitalk.com