Long COVID?

[doc]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/13/upshot/long-covid-disability.html

 

[RoninSkier]

https://www.npr.org/sections/health...gue-brain-fog-long-covid-neurological-effects
"growing evidence that even a mild case of COVID can cause long-term changes to the immune system that affect the brain and nervous system."

"some striking similarities to autoimmune diseases, "

"studying mice that develop a mild version of the disease."

"Those animals have cognitive deficits a month after they were infected," Klein says. "They no longer have virus, they're no longer ill. But they can't remember and recognize things."

"What there is, is elimination of the connections between neurons."

"Klein suspects that something similar is happening to the synaptic connections in the brains of people who get long COVID. And she says it appears this can happen even in people who don't get very sick."

"I may end up getting more inflammation in my brain than you because we have a different genetic makeup."

When I was a competitive cyclist I missed an entire season due to over training. I worked with Dr Doug Clement (Cdn T&F Olympian & pioneer in sports medicine). He explained severe over training is like auto immune disease and some athletes are more susceptible than others to the condition.

Long COVID is sorta like over training but worse, far slower, unpredictable & uncertain recovery.

Some medical types have theorized that perhaps Long COVID is like Shingles. Shingles is the return of past exposure to Chicken Pox. No one really knows why - perhaps the viral debris or the virus mutates and resides in us to return to fk the few of us who are susceptible.

 

[Prosper]

When I was a competitive cyclist I missed an entire season due to over training. I worked with Dr Doug Clement (Cdn T&F Olympian & pioneer in sports medicine). He explained severe over training is like auto immune disease and some athletes are more susceptible than others to the condition.

Long COVID is sorta like over training but worse, far slower, unpredictable & uncertain recovery.

Some medical types have theorized that perhaps Long COVID is like Shingles. Shingles is the return of past exposure to Chicken Pox. No one really knows why - perhaps the viral debris or the virus mutates and resides in us to return to fk the few of us who are susceptible.

I've heard that many experts are thinking that long COVID is more similar to autoimmune disorders where the body essentially attacks itself causing inflammation and abnormal functioning of cells. I've not heard of the shingle analogy and am not sure it fits very well. After someone has chicken pox the virus (varicella) can remain dormant in the dorsal root ganglia which is a cluster of nerve tissue along each level of the spinal cord, one on the right side and the other on the left. For some unknown reason (likely some stressor or exposure to a virus or combination of a number of factors) the chicken pox virus reactivates and causes the characteristic shingles rash and burning/itching pain along the dermatome (level of the body) which the virus was previously dormant. This is why shingles is only on one side and typically follows a stripe-like pattern on the face, arm, leg, torso. In severe cases it can cross over the midline but that is much less common. Don't think long COVID is like shingles at all.

 

[1Turn2Many]

Just curious if any of you long covid sufferers use mouthwash or antacids? I found this interesting even though the good doctor has a product for sale.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Not a long covid sufferer, but I've had short term covid twice and have been a HEAVY antacid user, plus daily mouthwash for decades, so ......?

 

[geepers]

Not a long covid sufferer, but I've had short term covid twice and have been a HEAVY antacid user, plus daily mouthwash for decades, so ......?

So... you are a random data point of no particular meaning without vast amounts of matching data.

 

[Paul Lutes]

I prefer anecdotal, but .... why yes, yes I am! Although every data point does in fact have meaning, it obviously should be considered within the entire data set. I'm more than happy to jump into the pool.

 

[geepers]

I prefer anecdotal

Saw a guy the other day. sitting on a street corner tearing up a sheet of paper and throwing the bits into the wind. Asked him why he was doing that and he told me it scares the polar bears away. Told him it was New Zealand - no polar bears. He said good, it's working...

Which is a long way of saying correlation is not causation.

 

[Paul Lutes]

My obviously flippant response was to the opening lines of the guest on the podcast above recommending getting rid of your fluoride toothpaste/mouthwash and drinking water, and never take any antacids. I stopped listening immediately, so if there were verified, peer-reviewed, properly controlled studied supporting these demands presented later. ...... pretty sure there weren't.

 

[AmyPJ]

This has me wondering if there will be a spike in cases of dementia and even alzheimer's in future years from COVID patients who have continued altered or diminished vascular damage that affects the brain.

 

[geepers]

My obviously flippant response was to the opening lines of the guest on the podcast above recommending getting rid of your fluoride toothpaste/mouthwash and drinking water, and never take any antacids. I stopped listening immediately, so if there were verified, peer-reviewed, properly controlled studied supporting these demands presented later. ...... pretty sure there weren't.

Well - IMD there were no and no sarc/sarc tags. So well played.

TBH I quit at 'product for sale'. Which came before starting the vid.

This has me wondering if there will be a spike in cases of dementia and even alzheimer's in future years from COVID patients who have continued altered or diminished vascular damage that affects the brain.

Sadly, expect this will happen.

My wife suffers long covid. For a number of months she seemed to be getting improving physically (although has suffered setbacks in recent weeks) but it's becoming increasingly hard for her to focus on admin tasks such as financials and sorting out IT issues which plague everyone with devices. Brain fog indeed.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Well - IMD there were no and no sarc/sarc tags. So well played.

TBH I quit at 'product for sale'. Which came before starting the vid.



Sadly, expect this will happen.

My wife suffers long covid. For a number of months she seemed to be getting improving physically (although has suffered setbacks in recent weeks) but it's becoming increasingly hard for her to focus on admin tasks such as financials and sorting out IT issues which plague everyone with devices. Brain fog indeed.

So sorry to hear this. She's been dealing with this for some time, if I recall correctly. Wishing you both luck on things getting better this winter.

 

[scott43]

I think the long-term implications could be problematic. It's become apparent that MS may have a fairly concrete connection to Epstein-Barr virus. It's difficult to know what surprises Covid may bring us in the future. I've never liked the calculus of those who would downplay Covid's seriousness. There is this sort of binary understanding: live or die..0 or 1. There are a whole host of things in between and frankly not ever being infected, while probably not realistic, is certainly a good thing.

 

[cantunamunch]

Agree with the above post, tho I cannot possibly like it.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Well - IMD there were no and no sarc/sarc tags. So well played.

TBH I quit at 'product for sale'. Which came before starting the vid.



Sadly, expect this will happen.

My wife suffers long covid. For a number of months she seemed to be getting improving physically (although has suffered setbacks in recent weeks) but it's becoming increasingly hard for her to focus on admin tasks such as financials and sorting out IT issues which plague everyone with devices. Brain fog indeed.

Apologies for my failed attempt at weak sarcastic humor, appropriate emojis would have indeed helped. And I respect your justified sensitivity regarding this subject given your wife's condition - hope things turn round soon.

 

[Andy Mink]

Sooooo....here we are 16 months since I had the 'vid. I am feeling better most of the time so that's good. I've had a pulmonary workup (the ones where you sit in the "phone booth") and heart tests (nuclear stress and echo). All came back negative which is good but still leaves the questions of why I still get fatigued, though not as often. It's been a while since I took a day long nap and even regular naps are few and far between. So, bottom line, it's getting better on its own, whatever IT is. Of course IT could be I'm just fat and out of shape!

Throw in pre diabetes (runs in the family) and now I'm on Metformin. I've lost over 10# in the last few weeks and am really watching carbs and sugars. Unfortunately, or not, alcohol also has to be cut back. Too much alcohol combined with the Metformin can lead to lactic acidosis which doesn't sound particularly pleasant. Rule of thumb is 2 per day for men, 1 for women. I can live with that.

 

[Tricia]

Sooooo....here we are 16 months since I had the 'vid. I am feeling better most of the time so that's good. I've had a pulmonary workup (the ones where you sit in the "phone booth") and heart tests (nuclear stress and echo). All came back negative which is good but still leaves the questions of why I still get fatigued, though not as often. It's been a while since I took a day long nap and even regular naps are few and far between. So, bottom line, it's getting better on its own, whatever IT is. Of course IT could be I'm just fat and out of shape!

Throw in pre diabetes (runs in the family) and now I'm on Metformin. I've lost over 10# in the last few weeks and am really watching carbs and sugars. Unfortunately, or not, alcohol also has to be cut back. Too much alcohol combined with the Metformin can lead to lactic acidosis which doesn't sound particularly pleasant. Rule of thumb is 2 per day for men, 1 for women. I can live with that.

Spending time with you I can say you seem more like yourself.
As for cutting back on alcohol, you've been cutting back on that for some time anyway, and its something we can all do to better our overall health.

 

[Tricia]

Regarding antacids and mouth rinse.
I've long wondered if antacids are harmful to overall gut health for a very long time. I don't take antacids but then I've never really had a reason to need them.

I do, however take daily supplements that help improve my overall gut health.
I drink a small glass of cranberry juice and apple cider vinegar in the morning and a multibiotic that was prescribed to me by a doctor. (along with vitamin D/K and fishoil)

The labs after radiation showed signs of diminished d and k, which is when my Dr prescribed these specific supplements for me.

 

[scott43]

Gut health is a thing. However, there is still the scientific method..

 

[RoninSkier]

Well - IMD there were no and no sarc/sarc tags. So well played.

TBH I quit at 'product for sale'. Which came before starting the vid.



Sadly, expect this will happen.

My wife suffers long covid. For a number of months she seemed to be getting improving physically (although has suffered setbacks in recent weeks) but it's becoming increasingly hard for her to focus on admin tasks such as financials and sorting out IT issues which plague everyone with devices. Brain fog indeed.

This fng plague just keeps on giving. Latest lung function test & xrays show more lung scaring even after 2.5yrs.
Waiting for a CT scan to determine extent of my pulmary fibrosis which developed after COVID Delta pneumonia, followed by scarring of 1/3 of my lungs.

Was doing pretty good, recovering at a slow grinding pace, then 7 hits of COVID Omicron with minor cold symptoms. Now this.