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Individual Review Long-Term Review: 2018 Nordica Navigator 85

WadeHoliday

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loved the navigator 90 at sierra in mushy snow. My top ski of the day.
wonder how it compares to new softer monster 88, and how it would be in hard snow.

after my 2 runs on it, I wanted to own one, but hard snow testing would be key, as an 88-low 90's ski needs to enjoy spring AM ice to track down the spring corn...

Cheers!
W
 

FairToMiddlin

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I got to spend some more time on the 179cm; the demo I tried at SIA a couple of months ago had an appalling tune, I needed a rematch.

Late season conditions in high altitude Colorado (call it 10,500 to 13K) have been reliably unreliable, which means refreeze when the lifts start turning, OR spring skiing after 10am, OR dust on crust, OR deep, wind-loaded pow, OR you name it. I have been able to sample the Navigator on hero groomer, 6" on crust, a bit of avy debris, and glorious, it's-late-April-and-I'm-slaying-pow-instead-of-biking, Betsy'sBirthday-Mother'sDay pow. I'm glad I didn't just hand the poorly tuned Navis back to the rep at SIA and write them off.

Turns out, It's not that bad.

Actually, it is nearly just right. to wit: better turn initiation than the Sollie XDR line for 17/18, and a bit more stability off piste. Way better turn initiation than the Dynastar Legend 17/18 line. More personality than the K2 iKonic 17/18 line. Livelier than all of the above, and the 17/18 Volkl Kanjo as well (these are all new-for-'18 skis, each is important to their respective brand). It has enough stiffness, and a smart enough shape, to get into deep snow and NOT surprise you by letting the snow snakes grab at your feet and throw you over the handlebars; rather, they are predictable when submerged, and I had way more fun in pow than I thought I would, in a pleasantsurprise way.

As light as these skis are (yes, they are part of the lightness craze the industry is gripped by), I was pre convinced that I was going to end up writing how they are too short, and you need ought to size up...

...I even brought my Blossom White Out, and Stockli Stormrider 95s as backup skis in case they turned out to be miserable. Please don't tell anyone, I think I am supposed to be more committed than that, I shouldn't wimp out just so I can get on some known-quantity skis and enjoy my day.

But wait, I didn't swap out, I kept on with the Navigators, and had a great day. Of the new crop of mid range, all mountain skis for 17/18 mentioned above, I will go ahead and say more people should be on the Navigator and any of the other skis I mentioned. I'll flesh that out below.

...but before I do, the nearly good part. They lack the overall power of the iKonic, and they really lack the torsional rigidity of the XDR, or RTM; the XDR will do a great job of holding in the belly of the turn, while the Navigator will initiate more positively, but then just when things get exciting, it struggles to inspire as much confidence as the XDR when the g's start to load up. Like a lot of lighter skis, this is not the stick to choose when you want to rage, and motor though crud. The iKonic, or better still, the Monster 88, Stormrider 88, MX 84, and Vantage 90Cti will see you through, and with more composure, as the excitement/chaos builds.

Overall, however, plusses outnumber minuses for the new Navigator. I was not a fan of what it replaces, the Nrgy, but this lil' guy... I like it, I want it to succeed. The Navigator is the ski among this crop I would recommend for a traveling skier, an advancing intermediate who may have a home mountain (or may be a Texan), and travels to one or two of the big mountains each year, and maybe takes a lesson or jumps in a clinic because they want to keep moving forward, keep getting more efficient. Of the lighter, very accessible all mountain skis available right now, I would recommend this one if you want to visit Bob Barnes or Josh Matta (to name a couple talented instructors) and kick your technique up a notch. It will respond underneath you as you seek to execute what Bob or Josh is teaching, with enough feel to reward you with an Aha moment when you risk enough.

The Navigator is a very good ski for at least 80% of us out there, but not everyone. Stronger skiers will overpower it; markojp is better served on the outgoing Nrgy than by this. As well, Drahtguy will likely be too much for this guy. But if you are medium weight/medium pace, and you want a ski that makes you feel clever, and want something that is good at a lot of things, and will help you on the way to the next level, this one is hard to pass up.
 
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Philpug

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I will expand on what @FairToMiddlin said. I skied the Nav 85 this past Tuesday morning at Loveland. Not to repeat what FTM said but what also makes this new Nordica a game changer is the price point...it will have a MAP (Minimum Advertised Price) of $499 which really is amazing, this ski is priced $100-150 less than comparable skis in the class. While Nordica has had some misses with skis in this class, they did a really good job with this Navigator collection. It will be tough for a shop to choose which to carry, is the 85 a compromise? Do they go with the extreme value of the Navigator 80 at $399? Does the Navigator 90 come to close to its brother, the popular Enforcer 93? Tough choice is tough times, talk about your first world ski problems.
 

Long Hair Hippy

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I’ve been somewhat intrigued by this ski, specifically as something to play around with in the bumps . According to the review by Phil he thought this ski shined in the bumps. Curious if @FairToMiddlin had any play time in mixed bumps with these things and if it was a similar experience.
 

FairToMiddlin

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I’ve been somewhat intrigued by this ski, specifically as something to play around with in the bumps . According to the review by Phil he thought this ski shined in the bumps. Curious if @FairToMiddlin had any play time in mixed bumps with these things and if it was a similar experience.

LHH, as a fellow LongHair, I am happy to report that the Navigator 85 is a friendly companion in the bumps. While nothing will help us if we don't don't do our part, this ski does reward an honest effort. At the moment when the tips crash into the next bump, it resists deflecting long enough to let us know that it is time to match the angle of our foot with the angle of the bump. After the crest, the nimbleness (not sure that's a word) of the 85 encourages pulling our feet back under us, once again matching the angle of our feet with the angle of the bump, this time on the backside. It's got good feedback to encourage us toward bump efficiency, kinda like this:
So, what gives at the $499 price point? Where did Nordica compromise under the hood? NRGy was still wood core with some metal over it.

Alex, the $499 price point does the best it can, and better than a lot of skis costing $200 more. Every ski I compared it against is expensive-er (OK, not a word), and I would recommend it over all of them. WHERE IT FALLS SHORT: you nailed it, it lacks oomph under the hood. At LudicrousSpeed, or RatherHighEdgeAngles, the 85 will fold and disappoint. It is less powerful than the Nrgy (maybe bad for you and me, but better for most), but a smarter shape, and more forgiving (better for everyone else). Maybe the Navi90 has more power, I didn't get on it yet. For a huge majority of the the recreational skiers out there, this is the stick that will encourage us to excel if we are taking lessons, and make for a happy pow day in the middle of our Xmas/NewYears week vacation. No, it doesn't compare to a SR83, or a FX85, but that isn't its mission. Nordica is selling a ski to the masses, and this time around, they are nailing it.
 
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Philpug

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After skiiing the Navigator 85 in the spring condtions at Arapahoe Basin, questions came up that beg to be asked. Is the Navigator collection of skis underpriced, or are the rest of the skis in the market over priced? Did Nordica throw down the gauntlet and say, we are groing to "right price" our skis? Did Nordica come to the conclusion that they can build a ski for less and just decided to pass the sagings along to the consumer? Did Nordica artificially keep the price low to increase market share? In reality do any of these questions indeed need to be answered? No, not really. If you are looking for a ski that in is the 80-90mm range that can handle a multitude of conditions and terrain but not at Nth degree levels, the Navigator collection and specifically the 85 will do everything that you would expect from it.

While here isn A-Basin for our May testing, we get on and trade off many skis. Even with the conditions changing daily and in some cases hourly, the fortitude of a ski is tested. The day before skiing the Navigator, I was on the Renoun Z90, a fantastic ski in it's own right, yes a darling of the site. The Renoun handled the mixed conditions fantastic as you would expect a ski with a comma in it's price but how could, how should and how would a ski that is about 1/3 it's price compare? Yes, there is always the cost of saving with a less expensive product and it really isn't fair comparing these two skis but I will..because I can and in doing this pseudo cage match, both skis will come out on top. First, no one will be cross shopping these two skis, hence the reason there is not a full cage match. But, where these skis will compare is how they are brought to market. How Cyrus claims "Rules are made to be broken", to an extent Nordica is also bucking some traditions by offering the Nanigator $50-150 less that the majority of the other skis in it's class.

As the day went on at A-Basin the conditions deteriorated, they went from beautiful corn to heavier mashed potatoes that you sunk into like quick sand. The latter were conditions that no traditional ski could excel in and were conditions that would expose a skis short comings. To expect a $499 ski to shine was unrealistic. Well the Navigator 85 did not turn the snow into corduroy like conditions, but it also did not embarrass it's self either. There was not one time where I felt out of control or that I couldn't get though the conditions, I just bucked the boots one notch tighter and survived it. It was the Navigators shape that got through the mank. Sure a ski more that 85 underfoot would have been better, but I cannot think of another 85mm ski that could have done as well either. The tip that was brought over from the Enforcer helped the to get up on top of the snow but what differenciated the Navigator was it's flatter tail which gave the Navigator more strength to finish the turn, hence more control and control creates confidence. For someone that is cosidering a $499, I cannot think of one thing more important that they need out of a ski and to help them get to the next level but "confidence".
 

markojp

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chicken dinner.jpeg
 
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WadeHoliday

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"The tip that was brought over from the Enforcer helped the to get up on top of the snow but what differenciated the Navigator was it's flatter tail which gave the Navigator more strength to finish the turn, hence more control and control creates confidence"

Agreed!
This shape was just money, so friendly predictable getting a turn rolling, solid coming out.

Cheers!
W
 

Magoo

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I'm so excited to ski this. Had to order it and I'm just going off what i read. Sure seems like a can't miss ski for a narrow mid carver style ski.
 

BornToSki683

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Phil, I really appreciate your review of the Nav. Do you have any experience on the Enforcer93 to compare nitty gritty differences?

I used a pair of Enforcer100's last year, and they absolutely kicked butt in crud, but I felt they didn't float very well in deeper powder, probably due to two sheets of metal, which is also probably why it attacks cut up powder/crud very well. Eventually I got ok with them on the groomers, but I always felt like the width was not great for me, kinda slow edge to edge and I felt like carving hurt my knees or something... It was a lot of work to get all the way up onto carving edge too. So thus I have been considering the Enforcer 93.

So now we have the navigator 90 to compare it to...which sounds like its got a tail I would like, but I'm not sure whether I am gonna like the front half of the ski if its softer then the enforcer? For me, this kind of ski is specifically for crud days when I might end up on some groomers or bumps as well. Getting down to very specific nit picking details, how do you think the Nav90 compares to Enforcer93?

Other skis I'm considering for this category are the Brahma and the experience88, but I didn't follow 2018 ski reviews much last winter so if there is something else I should look at, please chime in..

For pow days I have a pair of patron's I love. And for normal non-crud, non-pow days, I'm still in love with a fair of original Firearrow Pro's with the "puke" paint job...that has been my favorite ski perhaps ever, I kept a spare new set in the garage, which is why I can still ride a fresh pair now. But...for the real crud days...want something a bit wider. The firearrow's also don't like ice too much, but that's another story..
 
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Philpug

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Phil, I really appreciate your review of the Nav. Do you have any experience on the Enforcer93 to compare nitty gritty differences?

I used a pair of Enforcer100's last year, and they absolutely kicked butt in crud, but I felt they didn't float very well in deeper powder, probably due to two sheets of metal, which is also probably why it attacks cut up powder/crud very well. Eventually I got ok with them on the groomers, but I always felt like the width was not great for me, kinda slow edge to edge and I felt like carving hurt my knees or something... It was a lot of work to get all the way up onto carving edge too. So thus I have been considering the Enforcer 93.

So now we have the navigator 90 to compare it to...which sounds like its got a tail I would like, but I'm not sure whether I am gonna like the front half of the ski if its softer then the enforcer? For me, this kind of ski is specifically for crud days when I might end up on some groomers or bumps as well. Getting down to very specific nit picking details, how do you think the Nav90 compares to Enforcer93?

Other skis I'm considering for this category are the Brahma and the experience88, but I didn't follow 2018 ski reviews much last winter so if there is something else I should look at, please chime in..

For pow days I have a pair of patron's I love. And for normal non-crud, non-pow days, I'm still in love with a fair of original Firearrow Pro's with the "puke" paint job...that has been my favorite ski perhaps ever, I kept a spare new set in the garage, which is why I can still ride a fresh pair now. But...for the real crud days...want something a bit wider. The firearrow's also don't like ice too much, but that's another story..
The back half of the Navigator is what is different than the Enforcer, more solid an responsive than the Enforcer..on firmer condtions. For a western ski ski I would chooce the Nav 85 or 90 over the Enforcer 93, in the east I would choose the Enforcer 93 as a soft snow biased ski with a narrower ski as a counterpart. If you are looking for a narrower ski to go with your Patron's, the Brahma is a bit stronger than the Navigator but not as playful.
 

Idahosnow

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I skied the Navigator 85 on hard snow today during our Demo Days Done Dirt Cheap. I was after the enforcer 93 or a soulrider, but they were gone so I grabbed the only ski they had left in my size. 179 (I think) Navigator. They were fantastic. I definitely felt the tail and some pop coming out of my turns. I had no idea that this was a cheaper ski. I did some hard bumps and they were easy to maneuver. They also held strong on some very firm groomers. Fun ski.
 

Idahosnow

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I have been thinking about this ski a lot since skiing them yesterday. I really enjoyed how nimble and light they were and felt like I was skiing with better form than I typically do. May have to find an end of the season deal. These would be a great "cruising with the kids" ski at Sun Valley. I love my SR95, but it is way overkill for the typical SV day. Of course, now I am wondering about the 80 vs. 85, vs. 90.
 

Marty McSly

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I've had a day and a half on a Navi 85 in 179cm, in Australian spring conditions. I started in soft afternoon corn to slush, finding them very easy to initiate in the soft conditions, but also very easy to adjust through turns. Very easy to choose a line and follow it.

It took me a run or 2 to get the inputs right as I'm used to skis with stiffer tips that need more effort to initiate. At first I was a bit inclined to over turn, but then I found it was very easy to correct to the desired line. After adjusting my inputs I started to play around with different lines through the soft piles and had some fun turning on the soft low bumps and following the harder troughs between the piles. My impression at this point was of a ski that came alive and felt playful at moderate speeds, yet still felt stable and dependable.

I approached the second day with a little trepidation as the early morning groomers were hard and fast, and I wasn't sure if the skis had a long enough effective edge to hold up to my weight in such conditions.

I needn't have worried. After a few short turns to test the edge hold I started to open up and make progressively longer turns, increasing speeds with each run. Again, the skis felt stable and dependable but responsive and adjustable.

A little later I took an ungroomed trail that was refrozen crud from the day before. Hard chalk, death cookies, chicken heads, you name it. I took it fairly slowly, turning a lot, and again the edges held dependably.

This ski is just so confidence inspiring in variable conditions and so easy to ski. Definitely worth a look for an intermediate wanting to progress.

About me: 5'9", 240lb, 56yo intermediate. Skis I've liked include 2012 Blizzard Magnum Ti 8.7 in 174cm, 2016 Head Monster 88 in 170 cm and Blizzard Latigo in 177cm.

I think I like the Navigator 85 best of all though.:)
 

AmyPJ

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I'm bumping this up because I'm kind of wanting to switch my daily driver to something a tad longer and a tad less directional entering the turn than my Black Pearls. I'm ready to up my speed in powder and crud (and have been already.) I have a pair of older Santa Anas (pre-metal version) and just love them in powder and soft snow/chop. So easy to initiate turns with them, but at 100 under foot, they are more than I need on most days here at Snowbasin.

So, my question is what is the difference between the Navigator 85 and Astral 84? I skied the Astral 2 years ago for ski testing and really, really liked it. My two favorite skis that year were the BP and the Astral. I am going to keep an eye out for a pair of either the Nav 85 or Astral IF they are the same ski. Both come in a 165. Seems I could hunt down a pair of the Navigators in that length for a very good price.

I was also just commenting today on the gondola that it seems some of the manufacturers take a very, very good ski that requires a good skill set to ski (the Brahma of 3 years ago comes to mind) and "dumb it down" for the masses, vs. directing the masses to a ski that truly suits them better overall. I see SO many skiers out on the hill parking and riding on big old Enforcers, or Bonafides, etc. just bombing down the hill because the skis are stable at speed, yet they couldn't buy a turn to save their lives. It's scary. So, the comments above that "more people need to be on this ski" (the Navigator) I think really rings true. I suppose this could be a thread of its own. Is it an ego thing? "All the experts ski this ski, so I should too!" when in fact many would be happier on a ski that's less demanding and more playful, that only a large person or maybe an expert could push too hard?

FWIW I did see quite a few Navigator 85s and Astral 84s out and about this busy holiday week. Seems some of the shops in the SLC area or PC definitely put them in their rental or demo fleet.
 

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