Looking for 100-105 Groomer Ski for snow days.

[EmperorMA]

Throw a dart, pick one, and just go ski.

(The safe pick is the Enforcer 104 as a complement to your Evolve 90... it's like a Soul 7 with edge grip and some crud chops... easy and fun to ski. If a Sender Ti is more ski than you like, take the stance 102 off your list .)

Done!

From the 1st page on I’ve been thinking the Fischer 102 FR would be a no-brainer for the conditions you describe.

Done!

In the finals:

Rossignol Black Ops Sender 104
Nordica Enforcer 104 Free
Fischer Ranger 102 FR

All comments, bitter brand hatred, fanboy biases, gut instincts, conventional wisdom and abstract thoughts are welcome. Even throw that dart and tell me what you hit.

 

[EmperorMA]

Just adding .... I think the biggest surprise of all to me is first, that a Rossignol ski was basically the top recommendation from the shops in and around Big Sky.

Second, that the ski recommended wasn't the Sender Ti, but the (mostly) non-metal version, the Sender. I mean, I was there in person so they saw that I am a big guy.

Third, all the shops universally recommended the Stance 102 and its two sheets of metal, but still recommended a Rossi Sender ski without metal when they essentially had the same Rossi Sender Ti ski with metal sitting right next to it.

Anyone have enough experience with these skis to know why?

 

[markojp]

No idea. FWIW, I far prefer the Sender Ti to the Sender. (187, -2), and the Stance skis to the QST's. 5'11", #205. A smalker, lighter friend who's an excellent skier prefers the Sender.

 

[EmperorMA]

No idea. FWIW, I far prefer the Sender Ti to the Sender. (187, -2), and the Stance skis to the QST's. 5'11", #205. A smalker, lighter friend who's an excellent skier prefers the Sender.

Which of the two is more forgiving between the Sender Ti and Stance 102? I am really leaning Enforcer 104 Free but if I'm going with a ski that heavy I could still be talked into either one of these.

 

[markojp]

Which of the two is more forgiving between the Sender Ti and Stance 102? I am really leaning Enforcer 104 Free but if I'm going with a ski that heavy I could still be talked into either one of these.

The Enforcer 104 has such a nice wide skier/performance bandwidth, it's really hard not to recommend them to someone wanting a metal laminate ski without getting into 'you'd better be on'em' territory. If someone can't have fun on them, I don't really know what to say, but don't be talked into anything. Of those you've listed, I do have a personal preference, but I'm not you, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[EmperorMA]

The Enforcer 104 has such a nice wide skier/performance bandwidth, it's really hard not to recommend them to someone wanting a metal laminate ski without getting into 'you'd better be on'em' territory. If someone can't have fun on them, I don't really know what to say, but don't be talked into anything. Of those you've listed, I do have a personal preference, but I'm not you, so it doesn't really matter.

Precisely what I am after. Although perhaps the most boring choice, we have a winner!

Nordica Enforcer 104 Free

 

[peterm]

Precisely what I am after. Although perhaps the most boring choice, we have a winner!

Nordica Enforcer 104 Free

So you're going to buy without demoing? Or is this the first ski you're going to demo?

 

[James]

Surely this process can’t end now...

 

[EmperorMA]

So you're going to buy without demoing? Or is this the first ski you're going to demo?

Surely this process can’t end now...

No, I will try to demo the Enforcer 104 Free and probably the Stance 102 and/or Sender 104 at Jackson Hole week after next. If I can get my hands on the Ranger 102 FR, I'll ride those, too. I'm just saying the Enforcer is going to be the measuring stick with all the others going into the last round needing a knockout to win.

 

[Seldomski]

Surely this process can’t end now...

Next 10 pages will discuss mount point, binding selection, merits of 1/1 vs 1/2 vs 1/3 vs .5/3 vs .7/3 tunes. DPS phantom vs waxing.

Also, you will need some new poles to match the skis.

 

[raytseng]

Next 10 pages will discuss mount point, binding selection, merits of 1/1 vs 1/2 vs 1/3 vs .5/3 vs .7/3 tunes. DPS phantom vs waxing.

Also, you will need some new poles to match the skis.

woah woah woah, slow down there Leeroy Jenkins, don't get too far ahead of yourself. You forgot the whole vendor selection process to purchase the skis and shop selection. I give it till 2023 season before skis hit the snow.

 

[James]

I think the skis should be 1 base 2 side.

Trying to keep this simple. The ski selection thought process has been confusing enough for a bystander.

I am at a loss though, I remember that a few shops were consulted at Big Sky. Were any of the skis actually skied? There needs to be personalized data points. Otherwise you’ll meet someone tmrw with another great idea, and there’s no way to evaluate.

Hey, I’ve got a Kastle FX 104. New, never been mounted. It’s probably got none of the actual skiing qualities being looked for. But it’ll work in the thought process.
Minimal tip rocker, maybe we call it early flattening, old school tip shape, old school tip curve up, relatively stiff. Minimal to zero tail rocker, I forget. Basically Chris Davenport’s last gasp of a traditional ski.
Considering selling it...

 

[GregK]

Rossignol Black Ops Sender 104
Nordica Enforcer 104 Free
Fischer Ranger 102 FR

The Sender Ti and the Sender are very similar in hand flex and shape but differ in more weight and torsion stiffness on the Ti version. The Ti version will be a bit more damp and substantial feeling and is a bit more powerful carver. The regular Sender version will be a bit more light on it’s feet and a bit more forgiving, so it will be the easier recommendation for a less aggressive or lighter skier.

Between the Enforcer, Ranger and Sender the Ranger has the stiffest flex and the sender and Enforcer are pretty similar. Sender the lightest, Ranger heavier and the Enforcer the heaviest.

The biggest difference between those three skis is the looseness/forgiveness in their tails with the Sender 104 having the flattest/most traditional tail splay, the Fisher having a a bit more splay and the Enforcer almost a twin tip.

So even with the heaviest weight, the Enforcer is the easiest to pivot off piste, in bumps/tight spots and it’s flex is also more forgiving than the Fisher in those areas too. Even though you first mentioned groomer skis which the Enforcer 104 can still do very well(and the 100 will be more planted on) your confidence off piste will be greatly improved with the incredible ease of 104.

All three skis will be much easier to manage in soft snow compared to what you have but the heavier Fisher and especially Enforcer will be less bucked around when things get beat up in the afternoon.

Sender is the light, easy going ski
Fisher is the stronger, more precise carver
Enforcer the solid, confidence inspiring all a-rounder

 

[EmperorMA]

The Sender Ti and the Sender are very similar in hand flex and shape but differ in more weight and torsion stiffness on the Ti version. The Ti version will be a bit more damp and substantial feeling and is a bit more powerful carver. The regular Sender version will be a bit more light on it’s feet and a bit more forgiving, so it will be the easier recommendation for a less aggressive or lighter skier.

Between the Enforcer, Ranger and Sender the Ranger has the stiffest flex and the sender and Enforcer are pretty similar. Sender the lightest, Ranger heavier and the Enforcer the heaviest.

The biggest difference between those three skis is the looseness/forgiveness in their tails with the Sender 104 having the flattest/most traditional tail splay, the Fisher having a a bit more splay and the Enforcer almost a twin tip.

So even with the heaviest weight, the Enforcer is the easiest to pivot off piste, in bumps/tight spots and it’s flex is also more forgiving than the Fisher in those areas too. Even though you first mentioned groomer skis which the Enforcer 104 can still do very well(and the 100 will be more planted on) your confidence off piste will be greatly improved with the incredible ease of 104.

All three skis will be much easier to manage in soft snow compared to what you have but the heavier Fisher and especially Enforcer will be less bucked around when things get beat up in the afternoon.

Sender is the light, easy going ski
Fisher is the stronger, more precise carver
Enforcer the solid, confidence inspiring all a-rounder

Great post.

Where does Sender Ti fit in?

 

[GregK]

Great post.

Where does Sender Ti fit in?

Similar weight to the Fisher 102, so more solid through variable conditions vs the non Ti version but it’s tail shape again being flatter will be harder to release from a turn than the Fisher or Enforcer.
So better edge grip on harder snow(similar to the excellent Fisher) but not as easy to pivot(especially off piste) vs the Enforcer. Fisher is pretty easy to pivot too but it’s stiffer tail flex is less forgiving of mistakes in form. Fisher you have to be good in moguls to handle it vs the Enforcer which is a blast in them even for people who aren’t strong mogul skiers.

 

[markojp]

Great post.

Where does Sender Ti fit in?

If you read Greg's post, he says, "The Sender Ti and the Sender are very similar in hand flex and shape but differ in more weight and torsion stiffness on the Ti version. The Ti version will be a bit more damp and substantial feeling and is a bit more powerful carver."

Seems pretty clear cut. Personally, I find it much damper, better edge grip in mixed snow, and all around more powerful. The 191(?.. maybe 3?) is sort of a 'pro model', even stiffer than the shorter lengths. IMHO, I don't think the Sender Ti is what you're looking for, but by all means ski them if you have a chance, and we're only on page 6.

 

[François Pugh]

Great post.

Where does Sender Ti fit in?

I'll translate. Take the spot the Sender fits in, expand it slightly to two spots, but don't change the order or rank it holds versus the other skis for either spot. Put the TI at the less forgiving, better carving end of that range. That's just how I read @GregK 's description, not from my own experience with the skis.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

100mm skis for groomers seems kind of weird to me, but some of them are pretty good and they can really be a lot different from each other. I remember skiing the Castle MX98 and thinking "wow, this is the best 100mm race ski I've ever been on, this is great but why does it exist?" I saw some on sale for $499 the other day and might grab a pair.

As for them being different from each other, I skied a few at the Waterville Demo this year and they really had different feels. The Mantra M6, I know a lot of people will use it for groomers, but on hard snow, they had my knees aching and wanting off. If you are young and strong, sure. The Elan Ripstick Black was much smoother to ski on and softer with a very strong carvy shape, but not much of a tail. The Fischer Ranger 99 kind of found a nice middle ground for me not killing my knees, but also being strong enough that I didn't feel like I'd out ski it. So uh, I guess you should demo some skis. Or you could check SkiEssentials and see if they have more of those $499 Kastles.

 

[Tony S]

IMHO, I don't think the Sender Ti is what you're looking for, but by all means ski them if you have a chance, and we're only on page 6.

Yeah, the discussion will be much more meaningful after a few demos and honest reaction. It's a spiral: book knowledge only goes so far without experimentation. Then you come back for another pass with your field notes in hand.

 

[Tony S]

The Mantra M6, I know a lot of people will use it for groomers, but on hard snow, they had my knees aching and wanting off. If you are young and strong, sure. The Elan Ripstick Black was much smoother to ski on and softer with a very strong carvy shape, but not much of a tail. The Fischer Ranger 99 kind of found a nice middle ground for me not killing my knees, but also being strong enough that I didn't feel like I'd out ski it.

Drift...
This is a great comparison trio and confirms my suspicions about the Mantra. Thanks for the intel!