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Monique

bounceswoosh
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I brought my skis to the shop where @Doug Briggs works (no Doug sightings, sadly) and asked for a tune, and also asked about greasing the bindings (Marker Griffon) to make them easier to step into. The shop guy said he could do that, but it would only last a couple of runs. He looked more closely and pointed out that the um ... the step-plate thingie and the brake plate thingie overlapped a bit. You could see some wear. He said it wasn't a huge problem, but could definitely contribute to my difficulty stepping into the Marker. I didn't have my boots with me, but he said that fixing it would likely require a remount. And I said, if I'm going to do a remount, I'd just as soon replace the Marker Griffon with another binding ... one that doesn't have a reputation (and my personal experience) for difficulty getting into them.

He mentioned there's a Griffon Pro that's metal instead of plastic, that he said just works better in all regards. I asked about the Salomon STwhatsit13; he countered by suggesting the Look or Rossi. They're a race shop and I suspect that's what they have on hand.

So, what should I do? Cheapest is to remount the Griffon I already have, of course. But my experience with them has been frustrating, and he did say that they are extremely finicky about wear on the boot (I really don't think my boots have much wear, but it seems like something I don't want to have to think about). I think I've heard that before. So if I'm going for a remount, maybe I would be happier with a different binding? Any validity to the Griffon Pro being better in this regard? I feel like the Looks / Rossis may have a very different feel than the Markers - would I like them?

These bindings would be for my Santa Anas, which are my daily drivers.

I could do nothing. I could have the bindings I already own be remounted. I could buy an expensive set of bindings that are a higher price point than the bindings I've used in the past, and if so, would need to choose which one. I assume I would need to choose a binding that this shop can work with and has experience with (given they pointed the issue out, I'd like to give them the business, if I go that route). Thoughts? @SkiEssentials deals?
 

SBrown

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You have other skis, what bindings are on those? Do you like them? Do you not like them?
 

UGASkiDawg

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I'd just remount the one you have but that's just me. I'm pretty much a binding is a binding guy but hey what do I know.
 

Erik Timmerman

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Look Rossi is hard to get into too. Not much different from a Griffon unless you go for the FKS heel. I was never really aware of how much force these bindings take until I broke my tibial plateau. I can definitely feel the difference now. My advice if you want something easier to step into is Head/Tyrolia or Marker Race bindings. Salomon will be easy too and the old Atomic Race bindings go on about as easy as they come.
 

DanoT

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I had the same difficult to step into problem with Griffons in deep snow and steep terrain. So I bought some Salomon STH 13 at a very good price and then later found on the Salomon website that they claim they are easy to step into in deep snow.

After bottoming out on a rock band on a steep run on the first run of opening day, one ski came off (it had frozen mud on the tip) I crashed and then as I was wallowing around in close to 40" of unconsolidated snow, I had to take my other ski off to climb back up hill to my other ski. So the first ski clicked on after second try, the other ski clicked on first try.:yahoo:

Salomon did not lie. Get the STH 13. It works as advertised.

The only negative for me was that in order to mount the STH 13, the binding needed to be mounted back about 1/4" so the new screw holes could be kept be far enough away from the old Griffon holes. I could have had the binding mounted ahead instead of back but since it was on a Blizzard Bonifide which supposedly "skis short", I chose to move myself back a 1/4" on the ski.
 

Philpug

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I found the AXL3/SPX heel to be better than the previous generation and Griffons but not as easy as the Sth213. Pivots/FKS's don't take much effort but are temperamental. Don't forget the Attack 13, a lateral spring toe like the Griffon but a much easier heel to step in. IIRC, @SkiEssentials had a deal on them recently. The 97mm brake will be fine too.

Is the hole conflict with the Sth2 with the toe or heel? If its the heel, the Sth2 has 28mm of travel so you can move just the heel and still be where you are supposed to be.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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I found the AXL3/SPX heel to be better than the previous generation and Griffons but not as easy as the Sth213. Pivots/FKS's don't take much effort but are temperamental. Don't forget the Attack 13, a lateral spring toe like the Griffon but a much easier heel to step in. IIRC, @SkiEssentials had a deal on them recently. The 97mm brake will be fine too.

Is the hole conflict with the Sth2 with the toe or heel? If its the heel, the Sth2 has 28mm of travel so you can move just the heel and still be where you are supposed to be.

I think @DanoT had the hole conflict, and he's already mounted. Are you suggesting Attack 13 would be better for me than the Sth2 13, or just another option, both equally good?

And most importantly - do these bindings with max 13 DIN make any sense for me given that my DIN is 6.5? Isn't there something about not wanting to be on the low end of the spring?
 

Philpug

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I think @DanoT had the hole conflict, and he's already mounted. Are you suggesting Attack 13 would be better for me than the Sth2 13, or just another option, both equally good?

And most importantly - do these bindings with max 13 DIN make any sense for me given that my DIN is 6.5? Isn't there something about not wanting to be on the low end of the spring?
The Attack is just an alternative, both are equally good. You are a 6.5, these are 4-13(Attack) and 5-13 (Sth2) not a concern either way.
 

John O

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Well, you asked for thoughts.

IMO, I wouldn't buy new bindings just because they're hard to step into... unless they're too hard. Have you found yourself yet in a situation (such as deep snow) where it really caused you issues? If so, I say go ahead and replace 'em, and you've already got some very good suggestions and info. If not though, and it's just been a minor hassle, I vote for leaving well enough alone and spending the money on something else. Just my $.02.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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The Attack is just an alternative, both are equally good. You are a 6.5, these are 4-13(Attack) and 5-13 (Sth2) not a concern either way.

I like you even more because you just used "equally" and not the abomination "equally as."

Well, you asked for thoughts.

IMO, I wouldn't buy new bindings just because they're hard to step into... unless they're too hard. Have you found yourself yet in a situation (such as deep snow) where it really caused you issues? If so, I say go ahead and replace 'em, and you've already got some very good suggestions and info. If not though, and it's just been a minor hassle, I vote for leaving well enough alone and spending the money on something else. Just my $.02.

I haven't had these skis long enough to have issues with the bindings on them particularly, but yes, I have had a number of bad times with Marker bindings. Flailing in deep snow while friends wait for me is the most stressful, but I have to try several times to get into them right now - on hard snow on a flat surface at the base of the lift. I don't fall super often, but when I do, I want to know that my biggest concern isn't getting my damn skis back on my feet.

You have other skis, what bindings are on those? Do you like them? Do you not like them?

For whatever reason (I think stubbornness in the face of repeated reports on SkiDiva and other places), I have been mounting mostly Marker. Squire and Griffon. The exception are the Salomon Z10s I had mounted on my The Skis. I don't think they have a great reputation (vague memory of "something" I read, not sure), but they were cheap at the time and they are super easy to step into. In fact, the first time I stepped into those was a revelation. "Oh, it doesn't have to be a struggle to get into my bindings!" I have no explanation for why I then proceeded to put Griffons on my Santa Anas. Triumph of hope over experience, I suppose. I also wonder how much of these issues are due to poor mount jobs; I just don't have any basis for evaluating it. I take my skis to a shop, get them mounted, and trust that it was done correctly. Actually, I remember with the Santa Anas that I was in a hurry to take them to Big Sky (@Tricia expedited shipping) and of the bindings available at the Boulder REI, I was familiar with the Griffon, so I just went with it.
 

John O

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Flailing in deep snow while friends wait for me is the most stressful, but I have to try several times to get into them right now - on hard snow on a flat surface at the base of the lift.

Ok, that would fall into the category of "too hard" IMO. I own Look, Tyrolia and Marker (not griffons) right now and haven't had that problem. I'd want to fix the problem and strongly consider replacing them in your shoes too. I'm not knowledgeable enough to know if it could be a mount problem vs. a binding problem. Good luck :thumb:.
 

KingGrump

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Something doesn't sound right. On the Marker royals, the brakes are secured to the heel unit and not the track. A remount won't resolve the overlap issue. I just check my marker binding downstairs and yes the pivoting part of the heel does overlap the brake treadle. Once the ski boot is positioned and a downward pressure applied to the boot, the brake treadle moves down and forward. Thus elimination the overlap issue.

I would take a real close look at this before ripping out the bindings.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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Something doesn't sound right. On the Marker royals, the brakes are secured to the heel unit and not the track. A remount won't resolve the overlap issue. I just check my marker binding downstairs and yes the pivoting part of the heel does overlap the brake treadle. Once the ski boot is positioned and a downward pressure applied to the boot, the brake treadle moves down and forward. Thus elimination the overlap issue.

I would take a real close look at this before ripping out the bindings.

Do yours show wear where the two meet (or, in your case, don't meet)?
 

KingGrump

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KingGrump

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The photo uploads got a bit funky.
The first 2 pics show the overlap. Pic #3 shows how the brake treadle moves down and forward with a bit of pressure on the boot.
The last 2 pics show additional and full engagement.

I just looked at 6 pair of marker royal bindings downstairs - a mix of squire, griffon & jester. One pair of jester and the squire do overlap.
Now you have got me wondering. Maybe I should do an inventory of the bindings I have for this overlap thing.
 
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Monique

Monique

bounceswoosh
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I don't have photos just yet, but I took my boot when I picked up the ski, and the same tech took a look at how the boot enters the binding and said there isn't a problem there. The binding is working exactly as intended.

So I'm thinking of putting a new binding on it. I asked if they could mount the Attack 13; he said yes. I asked if the mounting point would have to change, and he said not necessarily, and described how the hole patterns are different between the two. He said they could mount pretty close to boot center.

Sooo. Decisions, decisions. Here's my current question: Will the Attack 13 be enough easier to step into - different enough from a Marker Griffon - that it's worth buying a new binding and potentially affecting resale value? I realize that's a personal question that everyone might have a different answer to. I would be so much happier if I could step into my bindings with ease. If that's truly what will happen, I'm leaning toward doing it.

I've been ignoring the Sth2 WTR 13 because I don't want a touring option on this ski so I don't want to have the extra weight and potential height - don't know if that's a real concern and/or is there a version that's not WTR?
 

Philpug

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I don't have photos just yet, but I took my boot when I picked up the ski, and the same tech took a look at how the boot enters the binding and said there isn't a problem there. The binding is working exactly as intended.

So I'm thinking of putting a new binding on it. I asked if they could mount the Attack 13; he said yes. I asked if the mounting point would have to change, and he said not necessarily, and described how the hole patterns are different between the two. He said they could mount pretty close to boot center.

Sooo. Decisions, decisions. Here's my current question: Will the Attack 13 be enough easier to step into - different enough from a Marker Griffon - that it's worth buying a new binding and potentially affecting resale value? I realize that's a personal question that everyone might have a different answer to. I would be so much happier if I could step into my bindings with ease. If that's truly what will happen, I'm leaning toward doing it.

I've been ignoring the Sth2 WTR 13 because I don't want a touring option on this ski so I don't want to have the extra weight and potential height - don't know if that's a real concern and/or is there a version that's not WTR?

I can talk about the characteristics of bindings all night and go thought a bottle of bourbon while doing it but what it comes down to is confidence. If you don't have confidence in your bindings, time to move in.

The Sth2 13 does not have a touring option, the WTR refers to it's ability to accept a WTR (Walk To Ride) sole. WTR is not DIN and it is not a full Tech Sole, it bridges the gap between the two. The Sth2 13 toe allows for the adjustment to accommodate the taller boot sole by being able to adjust the toe height. There is no difference in stance height or extra weight and there is no non WTR option when it comes to the Sth2 series. The adjustable toe is something Salomon has been doing for almost 40 years going back to the 727, and by adding some rollers to the toe wings they can now add an acronym and call it WTR.
 

jmeb

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...Here's my current question: Will the Attack 13 be enough easier to step into - different enough from a Marker Griffon - that it's worth buying a new binding and potentially affecting resale value?...

In my experience, yes the Attack 13 is noticeably easier to step into than the Marker Royal family and any other marker binding that shares its single cam heel. The Tyrolia heel I expect is a multiple cam design which gives it a different opening/closing motion than the Markers. FWIW the Attack is the easiest to find, but the I believe the Mojo/Peak also shares the same heel piece, just a different toe design.

As far as resale -- doubt it is a huge difference. I'd happily have a second mount if it meant that it had an Attack on the ski and not a Griffon. But I'm odd.
 

Muleski

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For what it's worth, we're a pretty experienced ski family. Our adult daughter {25} now skis the Solly STH2 13, or the 16 on all of her skis {four pairs?}. Our son {28 and a full time year round coach} switched to Solly as soon as he ended his race career, and started skiing on skis that came flat. He has the STH2 16 on a couple of his pairs. My wife now has the STH2 13 on her skis that come flat…..three or four pairs. I have the STH2 16 on, I think, six pairs of skis. My son's GF, also a full time coach and ex-national system athlete has the bindings on all of her skis that come flat. Maybe five pairs. The "kids" are all in Colorado, skiing in everything.

This group has had quite a bit of time on pretty much every binding made, over the past decade. In the case of our son, and his GF, they choose to buy Solly's and pass up others that would be free. I've been slowly moving away from the older 9-16 to the newer bindings, and have bought a lot of boxes of them. My hunch is that collectively we have something like 1500 ski days on the newer designs. Zero issues.

There are a lot of good bindings out there. Big fan of P-18, P-15, and to a lesser degree P-14 Look. Big fan of Tyrolia all metal race bindings, and of the Head/Tyrolia system bindings, which we have on some skis. Kids logged thousands of runs on Marker 20.0's and 30.0's in their race days, and almost as many on either a Tyrolia built binding, or Solly 916's and 920's.

But for everyday use in a new binding, it's hard to beat the newer Solly's, in our opinion. Solid, good feeling clunking in. Very solid feel in terms of being connected to the ski. No looseness. As PP notes, we feel very confident in them. They really work, they perform well, and they are easy to get into. We've come out when we needed to, and otherwise…..no. The heel travel adjustment range comes in handy. Like the toe design a lot. We like the DIN ranges. Really easy to find, and swap, brakes as needed. Brakes are also easy to bend to adjust as needed. Very pleased.

I think you'd be very pleased with a STH2 13. It's NOT a touring binding, as PP noted. It's their top end alpine binding with the 5-13 DIN range. Don't get confused by the "WTR."

If you look around, you can often find them at great prices. Like skis, there are a lot of good bindings out there. Thought I'd add this perspective.
 

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