Looking for opinions on getting Helly or Mountain Hardwear jacket

[CraigH]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the tech-talk, it's been a great read. I decided to keep the Helly Alpha. It's more comfortable, lighter, and fits better than the Mount Hardwear. It also fits most of my use cases. If I wind up skiing significantly more in the PNW I will definitely look into a Gore-Tex jacket.

 

[Eric@ict]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the tech-talk, it's been a great read. I decided to keep the Helly Alpha. It's more comfortable, lighter, and fits better than the Mount Hardwear. It also fits most of my use cases. If I wind up skiing significantly more in the PNW I will definitely look into a Gore-Tex jacket.

Probably a good choice. I’ve had a lot of MH gear over the years and some of the early stuff was amazing. Once Columbia bought them, I felt the quality went down. I do have some of the newer stuff that was supposed to be a remake of older gear and it is definitely lower quality as far as the breathability and waterproofing is concerned.

 

[pchewn]

If they were having a fight with firehoses, we might suspect that insufficient hydrostic head was the cause of their wetness (but more likely, lack of sealing at openings).

Speaking of fire hoses, Columbia Sportswear headquarters is within walking distance of my house. Here's the CEO of the company testing the sportswear on employees in this commercial.

 

[François Pugh]

Probably a good choice. I’ve had a lot of MH gear over the years and some of the early stuff was amazing. Once Columbia bought them, I felt the quality went down. I do have some of the newer stuff that was supposed to be a remake of older gear and it is definitely lower quality as far as the breathability and waterproofing is concerned.

Wow! I guess things change. I have an old Mountain Hardware 40,000/40,000 jacket that will need replacing one of these days. Please tell me that Patagonia and Arcteryx haven't gone down the tubes as well.

 

[Ulmerhutte]

Wow! I guess things change. I have an old Mountain Hardware 40,000/40,000 jacket that will need replacing one of these days. Please tell me that Patagonia and Arcteryx haven't gone down the tubes as well.

I have a bunch of Arcteryx gear (and Norrona) and it is all as good as it ever was. The “quiver” includes Alpha SV jacket, Beta jacket (for hiking), shell pants (older, cannot remember model), and Alpha SV gloves. No hesitation in recommending the product, based on my experience. Their after-sales service is also great - responsive and usually above & beyond expectations.

BTW: I would make similar comments on my Norrona gear. (If you have not already guessed, I am a bit of a gear junkie! )

 

[Wasatchman]

Anybody try skiing in a gore-tex jacket from the 90s or 2000s versus the latest and greatest?

Any noticeable difference?

There are a bunch of super cheap jackets one can get on eBay for example that are 10-30 years old. I wonder if the latest tech is really that noticeably better for your average user.

 

[Delicious]

Anybody try skiing in a gore-tex jacket from the 90s or 2000s versus the latest and greatest?

Any noticeable difference?

There are a bunch of super cheap jackets one can get on eBay for example that are 10-30 years old. I wonder if the latest tech is really that noticeably better for your average user.

I very recently retired a late 90's MH "Exposure" jacket that saw a lot of chairlift rides. It was a 2-ply Gore Tex shell, brown/black -classic MH styling. Always stayed dry inside, but didn't really "bead water", even when perfectly clean. It was a bit of a heat trap, but that's 2-ply in general. I would guess that the two main differences when comparing THEN and NOW, would be the fit, and the DWR tech. They ALL used to fit like tents. Current DWR tech is truly, well, durable. And I don't think the sewing and membrane tech has gotten worse either. That being said, I would be concerned that a 20 year old Gore membrane will have experienced some breakdown. We all care for our clothing differently. But perhaps even more significant, the chemistry of our sweat varies quite a bit. My 20 year old MH jacket looked great, and was thoughtfully cared for, but I wouldn't sell it to you with any "waterproof guarantee" or anything.

 

[Wasatchman]

I very recently retired a late 90's MH "Exposure" jacket that saw a lot of chairlift rides. It was a 2-ply Gore Tex shell, brown/black -classic MH styling. Always stayed dry inside, but didn't really "bead water", even when perfectly clean. It was a bit of a heat trap, but that's 2-ply in general. I would guess that the two main differences when comparing THEN and NOW, would be the fit, and the DWR tech. They ALL used to fit like tents. Current DWR tech is truly, well, durable. And I don't think the sewing and membrane tech has gotten worse either. That being said, I would be concerned that a 20 year old Gore membrane will have experienced some breakdown. We all care for our clothing differently. But perhaps even more significant, the chemistry of our sweat varies quite a bit. My 20 year old MH jacket looked great, and was thoughtfully cared for, but I wouldn't sell it to you with any "waterproof guarantee" or anything.

Fair enough. I still use my late 90s North Face Mountain Light jacket and Moonstone jacket quite a lot. I have reapplied DWR to it a number of times. Seems waterproof enough for Utah on pow days. I have a number of other newer jackets but something about the familiarity of that old jackets keeps me coming back.

I use newer jackets trekking where I'm more likely to be in a deluge.

I wonder how often people replace their shells for the latest and greatest technology when our experience suggests a good shell can last decades.

 

[Delicious]

the familiarity of that old jackets keeps me coming back.

I wonder how often people replace their shells for the latest and greatest technology when our experience suggests a good shell can last decades.

There is definitely something to be said for "knowing what you got"! ...and the muscle memory of where to stash keys, phone, wallet, etc without having to experiment or even think about it. Right?

 

[Slim]

Anybody try skiing in a gore-tex jacket from the 90s or 2000s versus the latest and greatest?

Any noticeable difference?

There are a bunch of super cheap jackets one can get on eBay for example that are 10-30 years old. I wonder if the latest tech is really that noticeably better for your average user.

you are talking about “new old stock“ right? Not second hand?

I think if you are talking about fabric technolog, then no, I think that stuff performs well enough.

That said, buying old things on eBay, you won’t get a warranty, and can you return it easily after trying on?
You can get plenty of newer garments for really low prices as well, and they come with those two important conditions.

So can not imagine many scenarios where it would be better to buy such old items off eBay.

Perhaps if you knew the specific garment, and that it fit you, then it would be worthwhile?

 

[Slim]

I don’t think any shell jacket (if used) can last “decades”. I am 46 years old, got my first GTX jacket when I was 16 years old. That is only 30 years ago.
Most of the jackets I have had over the years lasted anywhere from 5 to 10 years. Of course, I am talking about regular use.
If it was a ‘ski only’ jacket, that only got used 20 days a year, that would obviously make a huge difference, compared to something that was used ~170 days/year.

 

[Wasatchman]

I don’t think any shell jacket (if used) can last “decades”. I am 46 years old, got my first GTX jacket when I was 16 years old. That is only 30 years ago.
Most of the jackets I have had over the years lasted anywhere from 5 to 10 years. Of course, I am talking about regular use.
If it was a ‘ski only’ jacket, that only got used 20 days a year, that would obviously make a huge difference, compared to something that was used ~170 days/year.

Yeah, talking about new old stock or barely used old stock. Back in the day, all the gore-tex tags used to say guaranteed for life. And when I was younger and less cynical I sort of believed it to an extent. I'm in your age range as well btw.

But based on my personal experience, I question why people would need to replace their shell as often as they do. I wonder if people get sick of their jacket after a while, get enticed by the new technology, or it really does degrade for them.

Interestingly, some of the old items on ebay are a lousy deal. Like 90s vintage North face mountain light jackets in particular are expensive. I wonder if its a collectors item or what, because I sometimes do get complicated on my vintage 90s shells and the prices on eBay for them are often surprisingly high.

 

[Uncle-A]

I don’t think any shell jacket (if used) can last “decades”. I am 46 years old, got my first GTX jacket when I was 16 years old. That is only 30 years ago.
Most of the jackets I have had over the years lasted anywhere from 5 to 10 years. Of course, I am talking about regular use.
If it was a ‘ski only’ jacket, that only got used 20 days a year, that would obviously make a huge difference, compared to something that was used ~170 days/year.

I'm not sure of the lasting decades thing. I have an Eddie Bauer Weather Edge shell that is probably 20 years old an it was waterproof up until a few years ago and it only let in a little water at the seams in a downpour. I use it for both skiing and fishing so just about year round. I have other EB Weather Edge products some approaching 10 year old but less use because I use the first one so much.

 

[Wasatchman]

I'm not sure of the lasting decades thing. I have an Eddie Bauer Weather Edge shell that is probably 20 years old an it was waterproof up until a few years ago and it only let in a little water at the seams in a downpour. I use it for both skiing and fishing so just about year round. I have other EB Weather Edge products some approaching 10 year old but less use because I use the first one so much.

Have you tried applying a fresh layer of dwr to your old jacket to see if that helps?

 

[Slim]

I should clarify that in the case of my jackets that were worn out, I don’t mean DWR, I mean the entire jacket:
frayed hems, delaminating fabirc, worn zippers, rips, fading, etc. Just plain wear and tear over time and use.

 

[Eric@ict]

I should clarify that in the case of my jackets that were worn out, I don’t mean DWR, I mean the entire jacket:
frayed hems, delaminating fabirc, worn zippers, rips, fading, etc. Just plain wear and tear over time and use.

Worn out was the only reason I got rid of my MH jacket and bought new. I don’t use my new MH anywhere other than running around the city. I ended up getting an Obermyer coat for skiing.