Looking to find the Lowest Volume 100-110 Flex Race Boot

[AmyPJ]

I can't believe I am still having volume issues in my current Rossi ZJ+ 22.5 with ZipFit liners, even with extra cork added (more on the way for the tongues.) I cannot express how damned skinny not just my feet are, but also my heels and ankles. I can touch my thumb and middle finger to each other when I wrap them around my ankle. I also have slim calves. In addition, I'm tall for having such small feet, at 5'5". Because of my height, I find that the cuffs are a bit lower than I like, and the tongues in the ZipFits leave a gap on my shin, even with a Booster strap snugged up above the shell. We cranked the buckles down yesterday, and then I couldn't flex the boots an iota in 25 degrees. My big toe in my left foot was smashing into the end of the boot. They are already short-lasted for me but that's the price I pay, but I've never had my toes hit the ends until yesterday. I realize I can have the toe box ground in strategic spots, but the fact that this issue has not plagued me before tells me that yes, I've still got too much volume. Un-FREAKIN-believable.

I picked up a pair of Salomon S-Race junior boots in a 90 flex for my daughter last season as she also has tiny feet. I threw my ZipFits in there after I became so frustrated while skiing cut up powder and crud yesterday and having my feet moving around in the boots. Turns out, they are lower-volume than the Rossignols in all aspects, it appears. Unfortunately, the S-Race series is not sold here and I can't steal my daughter's boots (also, the 90 flex is too soft and the cuff is super low.) I'm literally so fed up with trying to get a boot to work for my so far out-of-the-norm feet, that I'm about to give up skiing on anything but smooth groomers. It's a really depressing thought.

So, the two main issues with the ZJ+ are they are still too high volume, and they are too stiff. We did cut the notches to soften them over the weekend. They are softer, but still bricks especially if I cinch them down tight enough to not slop.

So, my question is, what is the LOWEST volume of the low volume boots out there in a 100-110 flex? Or, am I better off adding more cork to my ZipFits to make the Rossi's fit a bit better (I don't love this idea--I want the shell as close to my foot as possible.)

 

[Castle Dave]

My wife had similar problems (AAA foot) and has gone down the same roads as you, also unsuccessfully. She went to a very high end fitter in Fernie and solved both fit and flex problems. This meant a 130 Tecnica race boot and custom foamed Head liner.
The foam fixed the fit problem and having the fiitter progressively cut the clog over a period of days trial and error fixed the flex problem. BTW she is 5'5"/120 lbs expert skier.
The boots are still tough to get on and off but fit and flex are now perfect.

 

[AmyPJ]

My wife had similar problems (AAA foot) and has gone down the same roads as you, also unsuccessfully. She went to a very high end fitter in Fernie and solved both fit and flex problems. This meant a 130 Tecnica race boot and custom foamed Head liner.
The foam fixed the fit problem and having the fiitter progressively cut the clog over a period of days trial and error fixed the flex problem. BTW she is 5'5"/120 lbs.
The boots are still tough to get on and off but fit and flex are now perfect.

How many days/seasons has she skied this setup? I’ve had custom foamed liners (Boot Doc) and liked the first pair, did another pair and they were excruciating. They were in an effort to make a 98 last boot fit. What brand liner is it?

 

[cantunamunch]

So...you gonna call Dodge?

 

[onenerdykid]

Atomic Redster STI 110.

It’s the lowest volume boot on the market.

 

[In2h2o]

@onenerdykid how upright is the Redster STI compared to a Lange/Rossi @ "12 degrees"?

 

[onenerdykid]

@onenerdykid how upright is the Redster STI compared to a Lange/Rossi @ "12 degrees"?

We measure the forward lean at 16°

Please bear in mind that there is no standardized way to measure forward lean and there is no straight line to measure. So it is a rough guestimate, but it does feel more forward than Lange's upright stance.

 

[In2h2o]

@AmyPJ sorry you are still having issues and with the 3D snow it illuminates and magnifies boot fit problems. You know we are similarly situated but perhaps a bit different in some respects - I suspect you foot is still narrower than mine. I have not put my foot in all plug boots but I think the Lange/Rossi "+" series boots are not a "true 92." I'll wait for the boot fitters to verify this, but to they feel much more generous in some areas. I'll also take the heat from zip fit lovers as after trying them, for me they have limitations - which perhaps you are finding- in that the liner is too thin in the forefoot with not enough volume in the tongue. You may want to pad up your zip fit tongue with some neoprene and see if that helps (in addition to the xtra cork)? Also I wonder if you are getting pushed too far forward in the boot by the liner?

Regarding other boots - have you been able to try your foot in any other plugs? I have never been able to try on any Fischer Alpine boots but I will throw it out there that earlier this season I was trying on some new AT boots and wow that Fischer Transalp Tour was tight/ short. I had to go up 2 sizes to even get my foot to fit....

 

[AmyPJ]

@AmyPJ sorry you are still having issues and with the 3D snow it illuminates and magnifies boot fit problems. You know we are similarly situated but perhaps a bit different in some respects - I suspect you foot is still narrower than mine. I have not put my foot in all plug boots but I think the Lange/Rossi "+" series boots are not a "true 92." I'll wait for the boot fitters to verify this, but to they feel much more generous in some areas. I'll also take the heat from zip fit lovers as after trying them, for me they have limitations - which perhaps you are finding- in that the liner is too thin in the forefoot with not enough volume in the tongue. You may want to pad up your zip fit tongue with some neoprene and see if that helps (in addition to the xtra cork)? Also I wonder if you are getting pushed too far forward in the boot by the liner?

Regarding other boots - have you been able to try your foot in any other plugs? I have never been able to try on any Fischer Alpine boots but I will throw it out there that earlier this season I was trying on some new AT boots and wow that Fischer Transalp Tour was tight/ short. I had to go up 2 sizes to even get my foot to fit....

So, the ZipFits don't push my knee forward, but the tongue itself does not sit snug against my shin, and with the lower cuff on the boot (which I do NOT like) it is exacerbated. I just yanked a plastic piece off the power strap on a pair of Nordica boots that are in the "didn't work" pile (and can't really sell because they've been canted) and installed it on my Booster strap to see if I can disperse some of that tension over the upper tongue of the ZipFit. I want low, low volume and higher cuffs. Why is that so hard?! And yes, the 3D snow makes the fit issues so frustrating, because I 100% have the skill set AND the coaching to ski that snow, and ski it well.

I'm going to venture out today to see if any local shops have any low volume "race" boots in and also if they have any of the Atomic low volume boots in. I know Level Nine has some Fischer RC4 Podiums in my size but am not sure which shop they are at. I just want to see if they are overall lower volume and will throw my ZipFits in there for comparison. If my feet are screaming a little, then I know I am onto something. The good news is it would appear I no longer need canting so can buy a boot and ski it right out of the box after adjusting the cuff to match my leg and can have the sole planed if necessary very easily.

 

[AmyPJ]

Atomic Redster STI 110.

It’s the lowest volume boot on the market.

Thank you for piping in! I have been trying to hunt some down in a 22.5, and even Atomic's website has none. We have access to AmerSports which helps but not if they are not in stock. How low is the cuff? Do the newer models come with the professional series Mimic Liners? Thicker power strap? Does it have an adjustable forward lean? It looks like it has the 3 tongue system which would be awesome since I need a thicker tongue. I can have adjustments made with the boot board, etc. since my husband works at a shop. How do these compare to the Hawx Ultra with a foamed Mimic liner?

 

[James]

I mean you can always add a driver plate to the cuff. You’ve got like 5 problems you’re trying to solve at once. For bootfitters, that’s when the sirens go off.
Try PJ for the Atomic shell. Get a foam tongue liner.

Boot Fitting Services for Ski Racers | Race Stock Sports in Vermont

We do custom foot beds, binding mounting and tic-toe installations from our locally owned shop in Waterbury, VT. Call or text 802-578-3585!

www.racestocksports.com

 

[AmyPJ]

I mean you can always add a driver plate to the cuff.
Try PJ for the Atomic shell. Get a foam tongue liner.

Boot Fitting Services for Ski Racers | Race Stock Sports in Vermont

We do custom foot beds, binding mounting and tic-toe installations from our locally owned shop in Waterbury, VT. Call or text 802-578-3585!

www.racestocksports.com

What is a driver plate?
I can't swap tongues because the ZipFit tongues are fixed I had a Boot Doc foamed liner made a couple of years ago for just this reason.

 

[James]

You can do all sorts of things. Including ripping the tongue out of the zipfit, or just selling them.
They’re not the be all and end all. Frankly, they still don’t know how to make a tongue, which is appalling. You can bend the plastic in the front with your fingers. You can’t even do that with many whole boots that cost $450, let alone just the liner at that price.

We’re not going to solve this over the internet though. Reminds me of the guy who first “upgrades” his throttle body on the car, while trying to solve 4 other problems, before the original issue is diagnosed. Then starts throwing more parts at it.

 

[AmyPJ]

You can do all sorts of things. Including ripping the tongue out of the zipfit, or just selling them.
They’re not the be all and end all. Frankly, they still don’t know how to make a tongue, which is appalling. You can bend the plastic in the front with your fingers. You can’t even do that with many whole boots that cost $450, let alone just the liner at that price.

We’re not going to solve this over the internet though. Reminds me of the guy who first “upgrades” his throttle body on the car, while trying to solve 4 other problems, before the original issue is diagnosed. Then starts throwing more parts at it.

The tongue is definitely a weaker link to an otherwise pretty amazing product.

 

[cantunamunch]

I mean you can always add a driver plate to the cuff. You’ve got like 5 problems you’re trying to solve at once. For bootfitters, that’s when the sirens go off.

You don't think Dodge can make her a custom clog with an extra tall cuff right off the bat?

 

[Simonsays]

I think it has been mentioned above but ZJ+ is not the 92 last (hence the plus) you would need a ZA and maybe some kind of cutting down to get a similar flex (They seemed stiffer than even the STI130S I tried and just noticed you thought the ZJs were too stiff) so that leaves Atomic STI110S or Dobermann/Firebird 110s or 100s if you want a low cuff. Ultimately I thought the STIs were slightly narrower.

 

[dan ross]

You don't think Dodge can make her a custom clog with an extra tall cuff right off the bat?

From what I understand, these guys are worth a call at least. If she lives within driving distance of Burlington a visit perhaps. There’s a lot of collective boot experience between those two . They’re not cheap but if they work for the OP , she’s ahead of the game.

 

[James]

The tongue is definitely a weaker link to an otherwise pretty amazing product.

I had a Zipfit in 2003 with the same flimsy tongue issue. I even had a back and forth email with Sven at the time. There was some “manufacturing issues” with the liners during those coffee named liners. Cappucino, espresso, I forget. What they really were- macchiato.

Here we are, 20 years later, same thing. That’s not an amazing product.
Fwiw, Intuition had the same issue with their non race tongues. You can feel the thing bend over the cuff. Terrible.

It’s a joke when low intermediate cheap boots have better tongues than expensive aftermarket liners.

You don't think Dodge can make her a custom clog with an extra tall cuff right off the bat?

I’m not convinced fitting by mail is appropriate for her. More likely to be an angst spiral.
If everything was figured out, then maybe.

 

[Philpug]

I don't think think they can make a low enough volume clog and I don't think they can do a true 22, I could be wrong on the latter part.

You don't think Dodge can make her a custom clog with an extra tall cuff right off the bat?

 

[AmyPJ]

I think it has been mentioned above but ZJ+ is not the 92 last (hence the plus) you would need a ZA and maybe some kind of cutting down to get a similar flex (They seemed stiffer than even the STI130S I tried and just noticed you thought the ZJs were too stiff) so that leaves Atomic STI110S or Dobermann/Firebird 110s or 100s if you want a low cuff. Ultimately I thought the STIs were slightly narrower.

I was always under the impression ZJ+ is 92 last and 120 flex. They are advertised as 92 last. They are most definitely lower volume by scads than any other boot I've been in, but all those were 98 last "recreational" boots. I do NOT want a low cuff; I'd rather cut the notches in the shell to soften the boot. I'm 5'5" with small, narrow feet (83mm wide at the widest part) that I've cursed since I was young and could only shop at Nordstrom because it was the only place my mom could find shoes in narrow widths. Now those are a thing of the past, too. I end up putting extra insoles in almost every pair of shoes I own, including my mountain biking shoes.

I just want the lowest volume shell I can find that isn't a brick. The stiff boot and lower cuff are a nightmare in crud. I'd entertain a Mimic liner in my current shell if the tongue is taller and better than the ZipFit. Beyond volume, I have no weird foot anomalies. The tongue/cuff issue I can work out if I can just get into a shell that is suitable. I could probably get hooked up with a Dobermann if they are in stock at the factory. I wish that Salomon sold their race boots in the U.S. The only reason I think I was able to get an S Race 90 is because AmerSports NA headquarters is here in Ogden, and they somehow had some overstock that ended up at Level Nine, which is a local retailer than ends up with a lot of overstock Salomon apparel, too.