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Looking to find the Lowest Volume 100-110 Flex Race Boot

Jerez

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@AmyPJ can't recall, did you end up staying with the stock liners or are you using aftermarket? I am asking because my DIY fix for my even lower volume right foot has packed out some and am wondering if I need something more.
 
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AmyPJ

AmyPJ

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@AmyPJ can't recall, did you end up staying with the stock liners or are you using aftermarket? I am asking because my DIY fix for my even lower volume right foot has packed out some and am wondering if I need something more.
Still in the stock liners. My right foot is going to need more, too. I’ll probably explore options in the fall. I’m inclined to go with the Mimic Pro liner since it should interface with the boots the best and I can use the Atomic tongue I bought.
 
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AmyPJ

AmyPJ

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Welp, I visited Brent Amsbury in PC yesterday and I need to be in a 21.5 :geek: :( My ankles measure 20, my instep and foot measure 21. Length measures 23. In the meantime, he heated the ZipFits I already have from my previous boots, built in a very thin volume reducer on the boot board, and added dense-ish foam padding to the tongue to help snug that area up for me. They did ski much better today as I've been struggling again lately--his first question was if my ankles get rolling around and I have trouble edging. Yup! Canting is damn near spot-on with 1 degree inward on both boots.

The Redsters are also too stiff. Easy to remedy thankfully. Not sure what shell I'll end up in next year. He wants me in a Lange RS 110 short cuff in 21.5. There are very few manufacturers making a true 21.5 anymore. He doesn't love putting recreational skiers in a race boot because the boot board is towards the inside edge, making them difficult to run flat and very aggressive. I've done fine with them but flats have been quite unsettling for sure. I'd join the two boot club if I could have both boots in the same BSL. But that won't happen.

I'm going to soften the Redsters to see how that feels. They felt pretty awesome today in an incredible amount of powder but the stiffness was making things a bit challenging especially on my weaker left side.

He commented more than once, "yep, your feet are tiny."
 

Castle Dave

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PSA for anybody who has been following this thread. I spotted 23.5 STI 110 for sale in Quebec for $299.99 Cdn. I don't know if they ship to the US but only $225 in US$. My wife bought exactly these and they are perfect for her AAA size 7 street shoe foot.
 

Floyd47

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Welp, I visited Brent Amsbury in PC yesterday and I need to be in a 21.5 :geek: :( My ankles measure 20, my instep and foot measure 21. Length measures 23. In the meantime, he heated the ZipFits I already have from my previous boots, built in a very thin volume reducer on the boot board, and added dense-ish foam padding to the tongue to help snug that area up for me. They did ski much better today as I've been struggling again lately--his first question was if my ankles get rolling around and I have trouble edging. Yup! Canting is damn near spot-on with 1 degree inward on both boots.

The Redsters are also too stiff. Easy to remedy thankfully. Not sure what shell I'll end up in next year. He wants me in a Lange RS 110 short cuff in 21.5. There are very few manufacturers making a true 21.5 anymore. He doesn't love putting recreational skiers in a race boot because the boot board is towards the inside edge, making them difficult to run flat and very aggressive. I've done fine with them but flats have been quite unsettling for sure. I'd join the two boot club if I could have both boots in the same BSL. But that won't happen.

I'm going to soften the Redsters to see how that feels. They felt pretty awesome today in an incredible amount of powder but the stiffness was making things a bit challenging especially on my weaker left side.

He commented more than once, "yep, your feet are tiny."
@AmyPJ Based on your descriptions throughout this thread, I’m honestly surprised they want to put you in RS 110. If the ZJ+ were too much volume for you, the RS 110 would be even more volume. I guess are they thinking sized down they will fit better?

I seem to have a narrowish ankle and skinny lower leg and I have too much room around my ankle and cuff in my RX 110 LV boots in size 24.5. Zipfits made it better, but I’m still exploring lower volume boot options. I actually tried on ZJ+ and it seemed to fit my ankle and lower leg better than my RX LV boots.
 

Tony S

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Welp, I visited Brent Amsbury in PC yesterday and I need to be in a 21.5 :geek: :( My ankles measure 20, my instep and foot measure 21. Length measures 23. In the meantime, he heated the ZipFits I already have from my previous boots, built in a very thin volume reducer on the boot board, and added dense-ish foam padding to the tongue to help snug that area up for me. They did ski much better today as I've been struggling again lately--his first question was if my ankles get rolling around and I have trouble edging. Yup! Canting is damn near spot-on with 1 degree inward on both boots.

The Redsters are also too stiff. Easy to remedy thankfully. Not sure what shell I'll end up in next year. He wants me in a Lange RS 110 short cuff in 21.5. There are very few manufacturers making a true 21.5 anymore. He doesn't love putting recreational skiers in a race boot because the boot board is towards the inside edge, making them difficult to run flat and very aggressive. I've done fine with them but flats have been quite unsettling for sure. I'd join the two boot club if I could have both boots in the same BSL. But that won't happen.

I'm going to soften the Redsters to see how that feels. They felt pretty awesome today in an incredible amount of powder but the stiffness was making things a bit challenging especially on my weaker left side.

He commented more than once, "yep, your feet are tiny."
Wait wait wait wait wait. Noooooooo!

A few weeks ago you were drinking nectar of the gods from the holy grail. Now we are back to episode number 3,672 of General Hospital. What happened? Can't you just eat a few more eclairs and call it good?

Edit: Maybe just don't talk to any boot fitters? They're like the greasers in the smoking area when we were in high school. Just don't go there. Think of your GPA!
 
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Floyd47

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@AmyPJ Based on your descriptions throughout this thread, I’m honestly surprised they want to put you in RS 110. If the ZJ+ were too much volume for you, the RS 110 would be even more volume. I guess are they thinking sized down they will fit better?

I seem to have a narrowish ankle and skinny lower leg and I have too much room around my ankle and cuff in my RX 110 LV boots in size 24.5. Zipfits made it better, but I’m still exploring lower volume boot options. I actually tried on ZJ+ and it seemed to fit my ankle and lower leg better than my RX LV boots.
To add to my earlier post, even if you did want a rec boot and not a race boot, my understanding is that Lange low volume rec boots are more generous on volume than every (or almost every) other brand’s low volume boot.
 

Triplet

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Yep yep yep, I was surprised as well about that recommendation... How this is going to work volume wise for you, @AmyPJ
 
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AmyPJ

AmyPJ

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I went to Brent Amsbury in Park City. He has been great to communicate with via email between appointments. First thing he did was measure every aspect of my foot. 23.5 length, 20 to 21 everywhere else. (He shook his head and said, "holy cow".) He then looked at where my ankle bones hit in relation to the cuff hinge. Too low. Looked at my short tibia--dragged a 21.5 RS short cuff and threw my foot into it. I asked him about the Lange being so similar to the ZJ, but he said the heel pocket in the RS is actually smaller than the ZJ+ (remember the "+" there) when going from a 22.5 down to a 21.5.

I picked up a pair of the Lange RS SC 110 and took them and the Redsters to him for an assessment. In many ways, they are sixes EXCEPT the short cuff AND my malleoli line up better with the hinge of the RS. He had cut the sides of the cuffs on the Redsters on my prior visit, put a thin, permanent shim on the boot boards, and molded my ZipFits to them (he does really quality work.) I still cannot STAND the tongues in the ZipFits, so I went back to the stock liner. He spent an hour looking at both feet in both shells with insoles in, then noticed I have an indentation above my right lateral malleolus (ankle bone.) Took out a little stick thing to check nerve sensations, and wouldn't you know it, I have what appears to be nerve damage on that area of my ankle, likely atrophy from my tibial plateau fracture in 2015, which likely explains much of why my right foot and ankle just don't feel "right". And why I hate the ZipFit tongues especially on that side. I wanted to ski them again this week just to make sure I felt what I felt, but I've been sick :(

We then began discussing the differences between the two boots. I still freakin love the Redsters--on groomers, except on flats where I have to widen my stance greatly or always edge them. I have yet to get along with them in crud and powder. I had sent him video of me skiing and he feels that the aggressiveness of the cant and rail on that boot is too much for how UNaggressively I ski. And the cuff is too tall (although it is a good two cm shorter than the ZJ+ on the front and back where he didn't cut--interesting observation.)

For shits and grins, I skied about 1500 vertical in the Langes last weekend. (It's all my toes could tolerate.) No canting, right out of the box. I cannot explain why, but the turn radius of my skis felt way tighter, my stance was naturally wider, and for the first time EVER, I could feel my feet doing the skiing, not my shins. So the plan is to foam a Sidas Race Pro liner and tongue in the fall for the Lange shell. It seems that the short cuff is something I've needed all along and he is the first fitter to clue in on that, maybe because I'm not short overall but my tibia is. He explained to me that a short cuff boot is going to lock in down lower on my leg and ankle.

I'll go into next season with two workable pair of boots. I did throw an old Boot Doc foamed tongue I had in storage into the Redsters and am a lot happier with that. (Side note: Why can't all boots come with removable tongues??)

Yes, the Redsters come in a short cuff, but only up to a 90 flex. There are a few others that do also, but again, a 90 flex. It seems I am some kind of 1%er, and not in the way I wish I were!
 

jrc22ski

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I went to Brent Amsbury in Park City. He has been great to communicate with via email between appointments. First thing he did was measure every aspect of my foot. 23.5 length, 20 to 21 everywhere else. (He shook his head and said, "holy cow".) He then looked at where my ankle bones hit in relation to the cuff hinge. Too low. Looked at my short tibia--dragged a 21.5 RS short cuff and threw my foot into it. I asked him about the Lange being so similar to the ZJ, but he said the heel pocket in the RS is actually smaller than the ZJ+ (remember the "+" there) when going from a 22.5 down to a 21.5.

I picked up a pair of the Lange RS SC 110 and took them and the Redsters to him for an assessment. In many ways, they are sixes EXCEPT the short cuff AND my malleoli line up better with the hinge of the RS. He had cut the sides of the cuffs on the Redsters on my prior visit, put a thin, permanent shim on the boot boards, and molded my ZipFits to them (he does really quality work.) I still cannot STAND the tongues in the ZipFits, so I went back to the stock liner. He spent an hour looking at both feet in both shells with insoles in, then noticed I have an indentation above my right lateral malleolus (ankle bone.) Took out a little stick thing to check nerve sensations, and wouldn't you know it, I have what appears to be nerve damage on that area of my ankle, likely atrophy from my tibial plateau fracture in 2015, which likely explains much of why my right foot and ankle just don't feel "right". And why I hate the ZipFit tongues especially on that side. I wanted to ski them again this week just to make sure I felt what I felt, but I've been sick :(

We then began discussing the differences between the two boots. I still freakin love the Redsters--on groomers, except on flats where I have to widen my stance greatly or always edge them. I have yet to get along with them in crud and powder. I had sent him video of me skiing and he feels that the aggressiveness of the cant and rail on that boot is too much for how UNaggressively I ski. And the cuff is too tall (although it is a good two cm shorter than the ZJ+ on the front and back where he didn't cut--interesting observation.)

For shits and grins, I skied about 1500 vertical in the Langes last weekend. (It's all my toes could tolerate.) No canting, right out of the box. I cannot explain why, but the turn radius of my skis felt way tighter, my stance was naturally wider, and for the first time EVER, I could feel my feet doing the skiing, not my shins. So the plan is to foam a Sidas Race Pro liner and tongue in the fall for the Lange shell. It seems that the short cuff is something I've needed all along and he is the first fitter to clue in on that, maybe because I'm not short overall but my tibia is. He explained to me that a short cuff boot is going to lock in down lower on my leg and ankle.

I'll go into next season with two workable pair of boots. I did throw an old Boot Doc foamed tongue I had in storage into the Redsters and am a lot happier with that. (Side note: Why can't all boots come with removable tongues??)

Yes, the Redsters come in a short cuff, but only up to a 90 flex. There are a few others that do also, but again, a 90 flex. It seems I am some kind of 1%er, and not in the way I wish I were!
My solution for my low volume heel, ankle and lower leg - Intuition MV Dreamliner.

I’ve been in 5 Lange ZA plug boots since 2003. I used to run the Nordica leather race liner with a lot padding. I would have issues with my bony ankles getting pounded by the upper cuff. Not with the Intuition.

Added bonus is they are a warm!

In order to fit my foot bed, PJ / Race Stock Sports in Waterbury, VT compresses the sole of the liner to accommodate.

I believe Intuition makes liners that have even more padding that the MV.
 

Tricia

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I went to Brent Amsbury in Park City. He has been great to communicate with via email between appointments. First thing he did was measure every aspect of my foot. 23.5 length, 20 to 21 everywhere else. (He shook his head and said, "holy cow".) He then looked at where my ankle bones hit in relation to the cuff hinge. Too low. Looked at my short tibia--dragged a 21.5 RS short cuff and threw my foot into it. I asked him about the Lange being so similar to the ZJ, but he said the heel pocket in the RS is actually smaller than the ZJ+ (remember the "+" there) when going from a 22.5 down to a 21.5.

I picked up a pair of the Lange RS SC 110 and took them and the Redsters to him for an assessment. In many ways, they are sixes EXCEPT the short cuff AND my malleoli line up better with the hinge of the RS. He had cut the sides of the cuffs on the Redsters on my prior visit, put a thin, permanent shim on the boot boards, and molded my ZipFits to them (he does really quality work.) I still cannot STAND the tongues in the ZipFits, so I went back to the stock liner. He spent an hour looking at both feet in both shells with insoles in, then noticed I have an indentation above my right lateral malleolus (ankle bone.) Took out a little stick thing to check nerve sensations, and wouldn't you know it, I have what appears to be nerve damage on that area of my ankle, likely atrophy from my tibial plateau fracture in 2015, which likely explains much of why my right foot and ankle just don't feel "right". And why I hate the ZipFit tongues especially on that side. I wanted to ski them again this week just to make sure I felt what I felt, but I've been sick :(

We then began discussing the differences between the two boots. I still freakin love the Redsters--on groomers, except on flats where I have to widen my stance greatly or always edge them. I have yet to get along with them in crud and powder. I had sent him video of me skiing and he feels that the aggressiveness of the cant and rail on that boot is too much for how UNaggressively I ski. And the cuff is too tall (although it is a good two cm shorter than the ZJ+ on the front and back where he didn't cut--interesting observation.)

For shits and grins, I skied about 1500 vertical in the Langes last weekend. (It's all my toes could tolerate.) No canting, right out of the box. I cannot explain why, but the turn radius of my skis felt way tighter, my stance was naturally wider, and for the first time EVER, I could feel my feet doing the skiing, not my shins. So the plan is to foam a Sidas Race Pro liner and tongue in the fall for the Lange shell. It seems that the short cuff is something I've needed all along and he is the first fitter to clue in on that, maybe because I'm not short overall but my tibia is. He explained to me that a short cuff boot is going to lock in down lower on my leg and ankle.

I'll go into next season with two workable pair of boots. I did throw an old Boot Doc foamed tongue I had in storage into the Redsters and am a lot happier with that. (Side note: Why can't all boots come with removable tongues??)

Yes, the Redsters come in a short cuff, but only up to a 90 flex. There are a few others that do also, but again, a 90 flex. It seems I am some kind of 1%er, and not in the way I wish I were!

Coming from a boot fitting standpoint and having seen a variety of feet, with a variety of issues, I'm going to put this out there. And, yes I had a woman on the boot bench a few years ago that measured similiarly to your measurments. She was in her 70s and didn't want to compromise fit, but was frustrated that the best fit for her that we had in the shop was a raptor which she could not get on by herself. Her two requirements when she walked into the shop were, snug fit and to be able to get the boots on by herself. She took the good fit and compromised on the abilty to get them on by herself.

Believe it or not, most of us have at least one thing we need to compromise in a fit because most of us have slightly different left/right feet.

Since your feet are so skewed in size/volume/nerve damage/etc...
At some point you're going to have to accept that the fit isn't going to be 100%.
At some point you're going to have to figure out which nuance thing in your boots that you're willing to compromise so you can just go ski and enjoy your day.
 
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AmyPJ

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^^ Brent said essentially the same thing. What's been so frustrating for the past 7 years is that I could have skied in almost any of the boots I was in...on my left foot. I have voiced that more than once. I even had my right knee checked by an ortho two 2 years after my initial injury and he declared a torn LCL. How badly torn? Don't know. It doesn't bother me anymore (it was sore when I skied for quite awhile) and any instability I felt there has all but disappeared BUT it does seem the TPF injury, while seeming pretty minor at the time, has caused more issues than I was aware. I essentially have some wonky nerve sensations in my right ankle/foot. Sometimes just having an answer like this is helpful to push the mind past the issue.

Another observation from Brent is that I should have an easier time tipping wider skis on edge on a short cuff boot. Note that the only side I have trouble doing this is on my right side...

I won't mind having two legit pair of boots to ski. They are 5mm difference in BSL so I won't have to remount bindings.
 

Tricia

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^^ Brent said essentially the same thing. What's been so frustrating for the past 7 years is that I could have skied in almost any of the boots I was in...on my left foot. I have voiced that more than once. I even had my right knee checked by an ortho two 2 years after my initial injury and he declared a torn LCL. How badly torn? Don't know. It doesn't bother me anymore (it was sore when I skied for quite awhile) and any instability I felt there has all but disappeared BUT it does seem the TPF injury, while seeming pretty minor at the time, has caused more issues than I was aware. I essentially have some wonky nerve sensations in my right ankle/foot. Sometimes just having an answer like this is helpful to push the mind past the issue.

Another observation from Brent is that I should have an easier time tipping wider skis on edge on a short cuff boot. Note that the only side I have trouble doing this is on my right side...

I won't mind having two legit pair of boots to ski. They are 5mm difference in BSL so I won't have to remount bindings.

My right foot is slightly bigger than my left foot.(just a smidge)
My ankle bugs me on my right foot(clicks sometimes when I walk)
I have a bunion on my right foot
If I have an issue on my body, its on the right side. (with the exception of breast cancer in my left boob)
For as long as I can remember, I have to compromise on my right side.
So....what we're boiling this down to is, Amy is going to sort out what compromise she is willing to work with going forward.
 

Floyd47

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I went to Brent Amsbury in Park City. He has been great to communicate with via email between appointments. First thing he did was measure every aspect of my foot. 23.5 length, 20 to 21 everywhere else. (He shook his head and said, "holy cow".) He then looked at where my ankle bones hit in relation to the cuff hinge. Too low. Looked at my short tibia--dragged a 21.5 RS short cuff and threw my foot into it. I asked him about the Lange being so similar to the ZJ, but he said the heel pocket in the RS is actually smaller than the ZJ+ (remember the "+" there) when going from a 22.5 down to a 21.5.

I picked up a pair of the Lange RS SC 110 and took them and the Redsters to him for an assessment. In many ways, they are sixes EXCEPT the short cuff AND my malleoli line up better with the hinge of the RS. He had cut the sides of the cuffs on the Redsters on my prior visit, put a thin, permanent shim on the boot boards, and molded my ZipFits to them (he does really quality work.) I still cannot STAND the tongues in the ZipFits, so I went back to the stock liner. He spent an hour looking at both feet in both shells with insoles in, then noticed I have an indentation above my right lateral malleolus (ankle bone.) Took out a little stick thing to check nerve sensations, and wouldn't you know it, I have what appears to be nerve damage on that area of my ankle, likely atrophy from my tibial plateau fracture in 2015, which likely explains much of why my right foot and ankle just don't feel "right". And why I hate the ZipFit tongues especially on that side. I wanted to ski them again this week just to make sure I felt what I felt, but I've been sick :(

We then began discussing the differences between the two boots. I still freakin love the Redsters--on groomers, except on flats where I have to widen my stance greatly or always edge them. I have yet to get along with them in crud and powder. I had sent him video of me skiing and he feels that the aggressiveness of the cant and rail on that boot is too much for how UNaggressively I ski. And the cuff is too tall (although it is a good two cm shorter than the ZJ+ on the front and back where he didn't cut--interesting observation.)

For shits and grins, I skied about 1500 vertical in the Langes last weekend. (It's all my toes could tolerate.) No canting, right out of the box. I cannot explain why, but the turn radius of my skis felt way tighter, my stance was naturally wider, and for the first time EVER, I could feel my feet doing the skiing, not my shins. So the plan is to foam a Sidas Race Pro liner and tongue in the fall for the Lange shell. It seems that the short cuff is something I've needed all along and he is the first fitter to clue in on that, maybe because I'm not short overall but my tibia is. He explained to me that a short cuff boot is going to lock in down lower on my leg and ankle.

I'll go into next season with two workable pair of boots. I did throw an old Boot Doc foamed tongue I had in storage into the Redsters and am a lot happier with that. (Side note: Why can't all boots come with removable tongues??)

Yes, the Redsters come in a short cuff, but only up to a 90 flex. There are a few others that do also, but again, a 90 flex. It seems I am some kind of 1%er, and not in the way I wish I were!
Thanks for the detailed post and the info on the heel pocket of the 21.5 RS110 vs 22.5 ZJ+. I wouldn’t have expected that.

So is the heel pocket of the regular ZJ different than the ZJ+? Lange publishes almost no info on the difference of the 92mm vs 92mm+ lasts.
 

otto

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There is a possibility that in the explanation to AmyPJ about the the actual dimensions of heel width between a 21.5 RS 110sc and a 22.5 ZJ+, it is possible that there was a little guilding of the lily, so to speak. And/or the thickness of a RS liner versus a Z liner gives the impression of narrowness in the heel. The RS liner is way puffier than a Z race liner.

I need to throw some truth at the "+" myth, rumor, and innuendo that is being spread about this thread. To understand how a supplier like Lange/Rossi can adapt an existing mold to have more than one fit available from one shell mold is simple and ingenious. That also means that just because there are 2 fit options in the same shell mold, it does not mean that we should make up how it actually works, in terms of where the boot fit has been modified. It is not the same story as brands that offer recreational boots in a 100mm and a 97mm last. And since Lange/Rossi does not promote these models in the US, there is very little written to describe what is going on with the "+" boots

First off to understand the the Lange race boot program, the first thing we need to do is realize that the "+" boots were not necessarily built for racers. The concept behind the "+" models which are only available in the J and A flexes was to bring to the European sales market a softer race design boot that could be sold to ski instructors, and aging ex-racers, and light weight U16s, that need and want the precise fit of a race boot, but without the brick like flex of the B and C, and stiffer models. Here is how it works . . .

The design parameters of the "+" boots were 3 main differences. One was to take the aggressiveness out of the stock sole cant by reducing the sole cant to 0 from +1 in the factory. The second change was to ship the boot with the sole being plunge routered to allow the boot to fit into the bindings without have to set the sole cant and router the boot lugs by the shop or race technician. The last parameter was to "open" up the fit out of the mold to take some pressure off the navicular and the styloid process. How they hey accomplish that without having to build completely different molds is that they can take the existing plug of the Z boots and add little raised bumps a few mm thick at the navicular and the styloid area for each size and inject the "+" in the same clam shell outer mold with the modified bumps on the inner plug. This is why you can see the little pockets on the inside of the shell without there being any visible sign of the modifications on the outside of the boots. So fundamentally if you have a skier insist that the ZJ and ZJ + are different volumes, I will tell you the fable of the Emperors new clothes. The 3 differences exist to make this boot more of a slam dunk fit for skiers looking for the fit of a narrow low volume boot with a greater range of skiability by taking some of the power off the sole. These boots sell at a premium price in Europe versus the race versions which usually sell at "race price" to the athletes that are not sponsored. In the USA most of our retailers that do not sell race boots, will not reference the "+" on their shelves.

To recap the "+" is more or less the same as the regular race boot with the exception of a few mm of space at the navicular and the styloid process, it has less built-in cant in the sole, and it is ready to be put into a binding without modification right out of the box.

It is not a secret weapon and it does not dimensionally fit different anywhere other than the 2 pockets I mentioned.
 
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AmyPJ

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Thanks for the detailed post and the info on the heel pocket of the 21.5 RS110 vs 22.5 ZJ+. I wouldn’t have expected that.

So is the heel pocket of the regular ZJ different than the ZJ+? Lange publishes almost no info on the difference of the 92mm vs 92mm+ lasts.
I have NO idea how valid it is--I still have the ZJ+ and the biggest difference I see is how tall the cuffs are, even compared to the Redster.

I'd be needing an aftermarket custom-foamed liner in either boot--RS or Redster.
 

Floyd47

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I have NO idea how valid it is--I still have the ZJ+ and the biggest difference I see is how tall the cuffs are, even compared to the Redster.

I'd be needing an aftermarket custom-foamed liner in either boot--RS or Redster.
No worries @AmyPJ. Like I said, the difference of Lange 92mm vs 92mm+ lasts was a bit of a black box for me, but huge thanks to @otto for clarifying!!
 

James

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Yes, the Redsters come in a short cuff, but only up to a 90 flex. There are a few others that do also, but again, a 90 flex. It seems I am some kind of 1%er, and not in the way I wish I were!
Cuff can be cut, no? The Head B series even had a line to cut at inside.
 

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