Marker Griffon 13 Endorsement From Renoun

Scotty I.

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
352
Location
Evergreen, Colorado
I watched a short video from Renoun about why they chose the Marker Griffon 13 as their only offering in this binding category. As someone who skied only Markers for years but grew to dislike them, I am a bit surprised that Cyrus gave the Griffons such a sterling review. So, do we as a community agree with him that the Griffons are "far and away" the best bindings in their category? Are the recently reworked Griffons the new gold standard?
The video is on this page in case you haven't seen it:
 

Cheizz

Craving camber
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
936
Location
The Netherlands
I believe the new Griffon has some of the old bad stuff fixed (not that easy to step into, especially in deep snow). For me, I like the Tyrolia Attack 13 better in that category. I don't think these two bindings differ much in terms of quality or safety though.
Marker has been the partner of Renoun since the beginning, no? Would surprise me if they DIDN'T give it a stellar review, honestly.
 

elemmac

AKA Lauren
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Posts
1,470
Location
The Granite State
I love the Griffons.

Gold standard :huh: I probably haven't skied enough other bindings to confirm that. I'm a creature of habit. I've been unhappy when I’ve branched out over the past few years, so I stick to what I know and know I like.
 

RickyG

Getting on the lift
Contributor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Posts
218
Location
Littleton Colorado
Gang, I always scratch my head about " not that easy to step into, especially in deep snow" our Squire 11(s) snap home with athority. I can ski the binding at the lower side of the recomended DIN setting because the return to center force and short time in anti shock keep me in. My old rule is that if I could do helocopters, twisters and the like without pre-releasing, but yet self release by twisting out of the binding I was in the correct binding. I must admit since my total knee replacement, and my 69th birthday are just a week or so away helocopters are not on the menu any longer.
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
4,871
Location
Denver, CO
I watched a short video from Renoun about why they chose the Marker Griffon 13 as their only offering in this binding category. As someone who skied only Markers for years but grew to dislike them, I am a bit surprised that Cyrus gave the Griffons such a sterling review. So, do we as a community agree with him that the Griffons are "far and away" the best bindings in their category? Are the recently reworked Griffons the new gold standard?
The video is on this page in case you haven't seen it:
I have used them for years and really like them. Again, I am not light at 195 lbs. Lighter skiers might have a different experience.
 

Scrundy

I like beer
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
569
Location
Conklin NY
Been skiing them for years, been trouble free.
I do find them hard to snap into in deep snow especially when snow builds up on bottom of boots. But I suspect all have that problem, key is to keep your boot in binding ;)
 

Muleski

Skiing the powder
Industry Insider
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
4,527
Location
North of Boston
So...my first question...not to be a complete questioning cynic, but what's in it for Cyrus/Renoun?

One of the generally acknowledged advantages of a flat or non-system ski is that it can be mounted with a huge number of binding choices.

I realize that he and his products have been a real "darling" of the site, but this choice strikes me as a bit odd. Not that I have anything against the Marker {it's NOT my choice, but that's just a preference}, but have a single binding "offering" seems like a different marketing/sales/customer service plan.

Just an observation. The skis aren't for me. I do admire what he has created and built. Tremendously so.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Scotty I.

Scotty I.

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Posts
352
Location
Evergreen, Colorado
So I wonder about the horizontal spring as opposed to the previous model's vertical spring which Cyrus says gives better power transition to the edges. When we get into the weeds this far, I need to hear from someone like @Philpug or an engineering type who could verify that.
FWIW Cyrus does not strike me as the type who would compromise his ethics by giving these bindings a great review unless he felt strongly about it. I mean, seriously, I don't think he would sell fewer skis if he promoted Tyrolia Attacks or Salomons Wardens.
 

François Pugh

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
4,889
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
Having one binding does keep things simple. Sorta like Henry Ford's colour line on his Model T.
While I do see an advantage in something like a Tyrolia Free-Flex for hard snow and tighter turns, I did buy a Pivot 15 (no freeflex) for my deep snow ski and have no complaints about my Marker Comps, nor even my antique Tryolia 490s (I've done many years of insane testing on those ogwink). So maybe I'm not discerning enough for you to put much weight to my opinions.

If it's just as good as the other bindings, why not stick to one?

@Cheizz , just out of curiosity, what is it about the Attack 13s that makes you like them better.
 

DanoT

RVer-Skier
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
3,584
Location
Sun Peaks B.C. in winter, Victoria B.C. in summer
I like my old Griffons for their performance re: retention/release but experienced the problems stepping into the binding in deep snow enough times to eventually just replace them with easy to step in Salomon STH12.

One thing about Griffons is that there is no difference between rental and retail bindings as both the toe and heel piece are on tracks.
 

ski otter 2

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
1,525
Location
Front Range, Colorado
I've liked the rental and retail similar height on Griffons.

To me, the light weight Tyrolia Attack 13s have a cheesy, rattly quality to them that is noticeable when I ski them - a kind of loose feeling too, as opposed to Markers or the Atomic/Salomon bindings, which I currently prefer.

My problem with the Marker Griffons is that I'm suspicious of the elevated toe - slight reverse delta - on the things, as I understand it, being used to a higher +2 heal, as on the previous Griffons, and seems like almost all other bindings, except a few that are flat. I would have to do an A/B set of comparisons with the same model ski and the new toe high Griffons, compared to other, heal high bindings, and that has not been possible. How on earth would I get at two pairs of the same demo ski with these different bindings on them?

As far as the complaints about getting into the Markers, I'm a lighter weight skier (~150 lbs) and have never had a problem with the 13 Griffons in this way - just the 16 Jesters. I've heard the problem is mostly for small/short footed people, but not sure. In deep powder I'm fine getting back in, as long as I methodically create a flat, slightly packed down platform for the ski in the snow first: then no problems.

The binding I do have problems getting into sometimes is the Look/Rossignol race binding, which I really have to give an extra stomp on to get into, at my weight.
 

Cheizz

Craving camber
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
936
Location
The Netherlands
@Cheizz , just out of curiosity, what is it about the Attack 13s that makes you like them better.
It's purely a feel thing. I like the crisp, clean 'click' when you step into the Attacks, feeling secure and light at the same time - that same 'lightness' that @ski otter 2 does not like in that binding. The Griffons have always felt a bit cumbersome and clumsy to me, not giving me that reassuring crisp 'click' most times. And that has been leaving me thinking 'am I really in all the way?' every time I'm on them.

So, very much a feel thing. I get the same reassurance that I have in the Tyrolias from a lot of bindings (Warden, STH2, most system bindings too), but not from the old Griffon. The fact that Marker now advertises the Griffon to be '20% easier to step into' for me counts as an acknowledgement of that 'issue' (that many people have not found to be an issue at all).
 

Andy Mink

Airborne Andy
Moderator
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,695
Location
Reno
My guess is Renoun wants to stay with one brand and, for whatever reason, Marker is the one. Moment sells their skis mounted with Looks. Armada uses Salomon. In other cases it comes down to who owns both the ski and binding brands. Whether it's the owner's preference, a good deal from the binding manufacturer, or something entirely different, there is always the option of ordering/buying the skis flat and putting on your favorite clamps.
 
Last edited:

Vinnie

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Feb 11, 2016
Posts
163
I've been on Griffons for years now. They just work for me. For me the release and retention match my expectations. In that time I've been on Look and Tyrolia bindings and went back to the Griffons. Bottom line is I trust them which is my main criteria for a ski binding.
 

ski otter 2

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Nov 20, 2015
Posts
1,525
Location
Front Range, Colorado
Another, unmentioned factor is that Marker dominates the binding market. It's about 70% nationally, last time I asked in shops, and saw something about it in print. So a good reason to use Markers for demos is that is the most likely binding for retail customers to end up with, so fewer surprises based on binding differences in feel and performance once they click into the ski once purchased. (And I myself have had more than a few surprises based on the difference in ski performance on a demo binding versus a different brand retail binding I ended up using.)
 

Andy Mink

Airborne Andy
Moderator
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,695
Location
Reno
So a good reason to use Markers for demos is that is the most likely binding for retail customers to end up with, so fewer surprises based on binding differences in feel and performance once they click into the ski once purchased.
Unfortunately, there is a noticeable difference in delta angles between current Marker demo and consumer bindings. Hopefully that will be addressed so folks aren't surprised when they really like a ski with the demos and then get the consumer bindings installed and it feels totally different. I believe @Philpug has talked to Marker about this.
 

ScottB

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
1,137
Location
Boston
I have owned my own small company making sporting goods products, in my case it was sail boards (wind surfers) in the Columbia River Gorge area in Oregon. The reality of life for a small business is you make a business deal, usually for $$ considerations, but not always, and then you promote the hell out of it. If Renoun is "selling" the bindings, there is some financial arrangement going on.

I own and ski many bindings. One Griffon and one Jester. The Jester is very difficult to get into, and I weigh 240 lbs. I am pretty neutral on the Griffon, its the older model, and it came on the ski and I just use it. I watched the video and it sounds like this new Griffon is fairly light, is MNC compatible, and has a good track record. Seems like a perfectly good binding to me. If the toe is higher than the heel, I would not use it, as I like zero ramp angle or close to zero. For me, a toe higher than the heel is a show stopper. If that is really true, I am amazed and it makes me think less of Marker. They have been know for really heel high bindings, like 6mm typically, and I have shims under my Jesters's toes to bring it back close to zero. If they are now going to toe high models, to me it means they don't pay attention to that feature which is almost unacceptable for a binding company that is claimed to be an industry standard.
 

Saintsman

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Apr 17, 2021
Posts
127
Location
South England
I have Griffon ID 13s mounted on my Blades and have just taken a close look at them. There's no way that the toe is higher than the heel - they look like the heel is maybe a half cm higher than the toe and they certainly feel like I'm canted forwards when I put them on. My only complaint is getting out of them; the amount of force needed to release the heel is nuts, but I'm putting that down to them needing to wear in a bit

Edit - that's not necessarily to say that there isn't a difference between the demo and retail versions of the new IDs, but to my knowledge on demo I only ever had the previous version
 

ScottB

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Posts
1,137
Location
Boston
I found info on Blister about the Griffon ID 13's and it confirms what you are saying @Saintsman. They report the toe height at 18mm and the heel at 22mm. So 4 mm delta. They don't mention the clicking in to be improved, but they do mention clicking in while in deep snow to be an issue. This could be a carryover comment from the older generation design.
 

Sponsor

Top