Marker Griffon 13 Endorsement From Renoun

[DanoT]

Here is a Griffon step-in tip from a Mike Weigele Heli tail gunner guide who has lots of experience helping heli skiers getting Griffons on in deep powder:
First put the ski boot toe under the lip of the toe piece as normal, then as you are stepping down with the boot heel, at the same time rotate/pivot the boot toe up against the lip of the binding toe piece.

 

[Cheizz]

If you need those kinds of tricks, I guess you could say there is an issue. But they fixed that now, apparently.

 

[DanoT]

If you need those kinds of tricks, I guess you could say there is an issue. But they fixed that now, apparently.

Another issue with Marker is: Have they fixed the quality control issue with brand new bindings out of the box failing a DIN spec test? It is a common enough problem with Marker only (not others brands) that a buddy who owned a ski shop 20 years ago mentioned it to me.

Then a few years after that, talking tech with a shop rat in the bar and he brought up the Marker new binding DIN spec failure problem.

Then a few years after that the ski shop/demo centre where I was working stopped carrying Marker. I asked the head ski tuner and he said the Marker quality control thing/DIN test failure was part of the reason.

At Sun Peaks, any employee who is paid while on skis (instructors, patrol, some lift maintenance) at the start of the season are required to get their ski bindings bench tested. Sure enough a ski instructor with new Markers purchased at a ski shop across the street had her bindings fail the test. One heel piece was just inside the specs while the other one was outside specs. She had to return to that other shop and get another new pair of bindings mounted. Those ones passed.

AFAIK, this does not happen to other binding manufacturers, at least not across all models on a regular basis.

So, if buying Marker bindings, request a binding bench test as part of the transaction.

 

[anders_nor]

the 2021's are easier to stepinto for sure.

 

[Saintsman]

I found info on Blister about the Griffon ID 13's and it confirms what you are saying @Saintsman. They report the toe height at 18mm and the heel at 22mm. So 4 mm delta. They don't mention the clicking in to be improved, but they do mention clicking in while in deep snow to be an issue. This could be a carryover comment from the older generation design.

Somewhat short on deep snow hereabouts, so can't comment on that for now. Ask me again Jan/Feb (fingers crossed)

 

[ski otter 2]

So maybe the toe high thing was a one season deal, over and done. Dunno. But in the shop where I hang out, there was a lot of discussion, head scratching and puzzle about it. For me, if one year, I (and my shop folk) would have experienced it for two years, since we'd have gotten that version at SIA a year early for evaluation and ordering, then the following fall and season it would have been in production/release and maybe lingered. That was the season of the Covid March shutdown, so my attention had reason to wander from keeping track of Griffons.

This last season, and after the covid stoppage from March in the previous year, I had enough to deal with, and just steered clear of Marker/Griffons, looking to just keep myself skiing. So if in the midst of Covid Marker went back to heal high, as Saintsman says, very good news, but I'd have probably missed it. I know my shop kept using Marker, because so many of the skis they carry use it in demoes, and it is so dominant. If it's a K2 or Volkl, in particular, it's going to be a Marker setup. Blizzard too, I believe. And others.

So next time I'm in that shop, I'll ask about it, get more details if possible. Thanks, Saintsman.

 

[ski otter 2]

P.S. I'm hoping this season we'll be almost back to normal, or at least a routine we are now used to, and there will be ski swaps where I can sell an older light weight Tyrolia Attack13, and maybe pick up a recent heal high Marker or another Atomic/Salomon for cheap. If I'm really lucky, maybe I'll find a Marker Griffon Schizo heal high. Ha!

 

[GregK]

Markers seem to have higher test failure rates than other bindings, pre-release issues even when adjusted properly, more difficult entry/exit(with sometimes not being fully locked in) and have more ramp and higher stand height vs Pivots or Attack2 bindings.

Attacks are the most similar in weight and price although the Attacks are usually price a bit cheaper. The Attack2 13 are WAY more secure feeling when adjusted properly and are much more confidence inspiring even with similar overall weight. The lower stand height and more direct connection to the ski is instantly noticeable.
The change to the Attack2 added some heft along with the ability to use GW soles in their redesigned toes vs the lighter original Attacks. For an even more secure feeling, moving to the Attack 16 or 18 adds a full metal heel and better dampening ability and is still about the same weight as other companies 13 and 14 din options.
Next year the Attacks go to 14 and 17 DIN versions with a few updates, a bit lighter weight and similar pricing.

The negative ramp issue is on Marker demo and system bindings as their Griffon heels have always been 24or 22mm high(see both listed) and toes are 18mm in the non demo versions. Attacks are 17mm heel and toe is adjustable in height but are usually around 14mm on an alpine boot soles.
The Griffon demo/system bindings are now actually 1mm higher in the toe so there is negative ramp in them. My 2020 Deacon 84 come with system bindings and the negative ramp is instantly noticeable and I had to move the bindings forward of rec to try and compensate. Auto toe height adjust as well but it doesn’t feel as secure as my Attacks do and damn near impossible to get out of them without HUGE effort. The bindings are so bad I bought new eTitans with Attack2 16s and will sell the Deacons this Fall.

 

[Jim Kenney]

Uh oh, did I do a bad thing?

 

[ScottB]

Good info. A companies demo bindings and similar system bindings can be different than their standard binding, even though named the same. Big differences in delta angle really effect performance, even though it is not well known and apparently ignored by Marker. I measured my old Griffons now that I am curious, 20mm toe and 23mm heel gap from the top of the ski. I like 0-3mm delta which explains why this binding felt fine to me.

 

[Cyrus Schenck]

So I wonder about the horizontal spring as opposed to the previous model's vertical spring which Cyrus says gives better power transition to the edges. When we get into the weeds this far, I need to hear from someone like @Philpug or an engineering type who could verify that.
FWIW Cyrus does not strike me as the type who would compromise his ethics by giving these bindings a great review unless he felt strongly about it. I mean, seriously, I don't think he would sell fewer skis if he promoted Tyrolia Attacks or Salomons Wardens.

Correct. All the major bindings all cost about the same (`~$10 difference) to us so we can choose whichever one we like best and not worry about making more on one binding vs. another.

 

[Cyrus Schenck]

So...my first question...not to be a complete questioning cynic, but what's in it for Cyrus/Renoun?

One of the generally acknowledged advantages of a flat or non-system ski is that it can be mounted with a huge number of binding choices.

I realize that he and his products have been a real "darling" of the site, but this choice strikes me as a bit odd. Not that I have anything against the Marker {it's NOT my choice, but that's just a preference}, but have a single binding "offering" seems like a different marketing/sales/customer service plan.

Just an observation. The skis aren't for me. I do admire what he has created and built. Tremendously so.

we make money selling bindings, but out biggest job is simplifying the purchasing experience for those who just want to get out there. Choosing a single bindings alleviates the paradox of choice for the vast majority of skiers. We tel people all the time to buy a different binding if they want to (heck, I ski the Pivot 14s!)

 

[Ecimmortal]

I've liked the rental and retail similar height on Griffons.

To me, the light weight Tyrolia Attack 13s have a cheesy, rattly quality to them that is noticeable when I ski them - a kind of loose feeling too, as opposed to Markers or the Atomic/Salomon bindings, which I currently prefer.

My problem with the Marker Griffons is that I'm suspicious of the elevated toe - slight reverse delta - on the things, as I understand it, being used to a higher +2 heal, as on the previous Griffons, and seems like almost all other bindings, except a few that are flat. I would have to do an A/B set of comparisons with the same model ski and the new toe high Griffons, compared to other, heal high bindings, and that has not been possible. How on earth would I get at two pairs of the same demo ski with these different bindings on them?

As far as the complaints about getting into the Markers, I'm a lighter weight skier (~150 lbs) and have never had a problem with the 13 Griffons in this way - just the 16 Jesters. I've heard the problem is mostly for small/short footed people, but not sure. In deep powder I'm fine getting back in, as long as I methodically create a flat, slightly packed down platform for the ski in the snow first: then no problems.

The binding I do have problems getting into sometimes is the Look/Rossignol race binding, which I really have to give an extra stomp on to get into, at my weight.

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