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Gear Marker Stops Selling Kingpin Binding

Nobody

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Ok I found it; over at TGR there is a thread born in 2014 and still alive on the Kpin subject, where at about page 13/91(on the dedicated TGR forum android app) or 6/37 (on my android FF browser) someone is pointing to Wild Snow and the comments about the Kpin on RH part. FWIW.
 

Doug Briggs

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AFAIK, Howell is not suing Marker, KB is.
IIRC, When kpins came to market and was discussed/reviewed on internet forum, Howell even commented on the kpin "wheels" system, stating that it was taken into account for.KB but then abandoned. Do not.remember where, might.have beenn on Epicski or TGR...I'll look around, but if it was on.Epic..it's gone...
Also I do not remember RH saying/writing anything about Marker infringing his patents, (which menas nothing, of course)

Correct. Howell is suing KB, not Marker. I meant to say that Howell's victories have been against KB. Howell is focusing on getting his Howell Ski Binding to market and quashing any claims by KB to his technology as well as retaining his patents on the technology used by his lateral release system.

AFAICT, KB hasn't made any significant technological advances on their product since Howell was ousted. On the contrary, Howell has continued to test and advance his product as well as maintain his position as a leader in the binding community with peer review and professional presentations at conferences around the world.
 

Monique

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I'm confused.

This thread started with G3 suing Marker.

Now we're talking about Howell suing KB.

Are the two related?
 

Muleski

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Yes, KB is suing Marker for an infringement on what they consider to be their patent, which they contend is part of the Kingpin heel design. It gets more messy with Rick Howell suing KB, contesting that the patents are actually his intellectual property and not KB's. I don't think that Howell has established the grounds to sue anybody {should he go that route} until such time as he does "regain" the various patents. And as Doug says, he's been in the win column against KB, thus far.

The whole thing has been pretty dramatic, to say the least. This is obviously RH's life's work.
 

Muleski

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I'm confused.

This thread started with G3 suing Marker.

Now we're talking about Howell suing KB.

Are the two related?

I don't think so. What it tells me as a basic business guy, and not an IP lawyer is that these binding patents cover pretty broad ground. Read the Powder article about the G3 CEO "really liking the patent!"

G3 alleges three separate patent infringements. Marker has already admitted to one. Court will rule on the other two.

Then you have Knee who apparently feel that they own what was RH's patent for a lateral heel release ski binding. So, they are going after Marker.

And Howell wants his patents back. Hence his action against KB.

Confusing.....at least to me.

I really like the binding {The Kingpin}, BTW.
 

oldschoolskier

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I personally miss RH's explainations as he did provide knowledge beyond what anyone else did. This patent thing is in my opinion just an easy money grab.

Get the idea patent it, let someone else come up and develop a similar idea, let it grow and then seek damages. 100k investment million dollar pay out. So wrong.
 

neonorchid

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I can't imagine Kneebinding has a patent that generally covers "lateral release at the heel of a ski binding". Dynafit has had a heel-based lateral release for a long time. Over a decade?

It may be a patent that covers lateral release of alpine-style heels?
Makes about as much sense as @Philpug suing GIANT for using his name -
IMG_0554.jpg

and then suing this guy for rubbing it in -
IMG_0434.jpg
 

Doug Briggs

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Kneebinding has no patents. Rick Howell does; he 'won' his patents back from KB last year after prolonged litigation. There have been countersuits so where the patents really lie is only a guess on my part.

Here is a link to his history: https://howell-ski-bindings.myshopify.com/pages/about-us

Howell's binding utilizes 3-modes of release. Toe, heel and lateral heel. AFIK, all other bindings are only 2 modes. While some two mode models release laterally at the heel, it is generally due to their lack of ability to control the release at the toe. For instance the Kingpin releases laterally at the heel to permit a twisting release to take place. So does the Dynafit heel. The toes in both bindings are pin style and while they do let go of the boot, eventually (or prematurely in many cases), they aren't one of the 2 modes of release. Dynafit pin style heels release utilizing a completely different mechanism than Marker's Kingpin heel. The former relies on the pins that afford forward heel release to also permit lateral release from a twisting fall. Marker's have separate, independent systems for forward and lateral release.

I can say no more on this as I'm not an expert on this. If you are truly interested, I suggest googling Howell and his binding and patents. They really are in a league of their own.
 

Nobody

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In any case here where I live, shops are still selling KPins, wether some.leftover from last season or else, I do not know. Hope to know more "when september ends"...
 

Doug Briggs

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What price are the selling them for?
 

Jim McDonald

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Still available at shops in Tokyo, think prices around Y50,000
 

Doug Briggs

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That's cheaper than most ebay listings. Shipping would make up for that I suspect. You coming to Breck, CO anytime soon?
 

Jim McDonald

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Unfortunately no. Heading to NY for a few days in mid-December
 

Nobody

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Early this summer I snapped a pair of brand new kp10, in their box, for 200 (euro)...these are reserved for a "secret project", so, sssh, mum is the word.
Same shop recently offered a mounted pair for 350 (bundle of skis and kp10, with demo/rent slides) but being cash stripped by then, had to forgo. The bundle was lightly used (one season old, used only by one person).
Since then, seems that kp have dropped out off the radar, but I haven't inquired in shops about stocks and orders, will have to check.
This past winter, kp13 were priced at about 450 (euro) in shops...
 

Nobody

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Having read the Tyrolia Protector thread and discovered about the litigation on those...
As far as KingPins, I think all was settled, since I have seen those bindings, of all models, offered at shops and online here in Europe.
Still, the curiosity to understand how the KingPin heel (or a derivative Marker product) would/could fit, if at all, in the current market of heels à la KB and or Protectors, remains...
 

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