Masters GS Ski Radius

[CascadeConcrete]

I looked through some of the past posts on the topic and there's some good info but a few aspects of my situation don't seem to be addressed, so I thought I'd ask my own question. Notably, I'm very lightweight and have somewhat limited racing experience.

Background about me: I'm a late-20s male, 5'8", 125 lbs. So I'm basically the size a lot of racers were in HS. I did not race growing up, although I'm not a total stranger to the race course. I started racing NASTAR back in college. Then I joined my school's USCSA team which being a Midwestern school, was extremely casual, with no actual coach or training. After college, I've raced in my local beer league ever since. I'm not crazy fast, but I'm always in the top half and in the top third when I'm skiing well. I ski in the Seattle area.

I've never really gotten any consistent gate training, with mostly just some sporadic race practice days or whatever. I'd like to get better before my body starts getting old, so I'm planning to do the local Masters program this year. I don't know how many actual races I'll go to, probably just the nearby ones and not travel much. But my main goal is to get consistent practice and coaching to hopefully improve my racing and skiing in general. I'm aware that Masters racing is typically higher level than beer league and I'll probably be near the back of the pack but whatever. Gotta start somewhere. I will also continue racing beer league, so hopefully I'll move up the standings some there with practice.

This brings me to equipment. I picked up a lightly used SL ski, 157 FIS, which I think should do the trick for slalom training. I have a pair of 176, 18.5m cheater GS skis I use for beer league. My understanding is that the Masters course sets will be wider: 23-30m. Would I be better off to ease into it on my current GS skis or just jump to bigger sticks from the start? I see two main options:

1. Start the season on my existing skis, let the coaches evaluate my skiing, and recommend what kind of ski I should look for.
2. I found a very good deal on a pair of used Fischer 180, ≥23m tweener skis I could pick up. At my size, I don't expect I would overpower those. In fact, they may be better than the skis designed for larger skiers. But will I regret having a radius on the bottom end of the Masters set range? I think some brands make a 183, ≥25m tweener too, but I don't have my eye on any at the moment.

 

[S.H.]

IMO ... Start on something with a >23 m radius. At 125 lbs, a tweener ski will be fine/great for you.

With a radius <20m, you won't be able to flow in a GS course - there'll be a dead spot in transition, and it will be harder for you to improve.

The difference between 23m and 25m radius is minor, and you're unlikely to tell the difference in your first year.

 

[bbbradley]

Toughen up and get some 30m FIS skis!

If you have a coach you anticipate working with, I'd wait it out until he/she can evaluate your skills based on the course set. Yes, the skis you see now might be a deal, but a good deal on the wrong skis is less of a deal. The 18.5 will be a little awkward in a GS set, but it's a place to start and if your GS hill is smaller, the set might be on the lower end of the Masters set, making those skis workable. As an example, the top skis for our local beer league are all FIS SL skis, an 18.5m/176cm ski would work, but not be ideal.

 

[DocGKR]

A ski does not care about gender; there are a lot of 20+ yo, 5' 8", 125 lbs ski racers who do very well on 188/30m GS skis.

You will likely want to be on a 23-27m GS ski for Masters racing and might eventually like a 30m ski.

Talking to your coach before purchasing something is definitely a good idea--give them a call or email now and ask.

You can probably pick-up a used pair of appropriate GS skis for $500-600; there might even be some for sale here at SkiTalk if you look.

 

[Lorenzzo]

I’ll be selling a pair of 4 year old Fischer 23m that were my back-ups when I did Masters. They have a total of 5-6 days use at most. I probably won’t list for a couple of months but if there’s interest I can provide race binding & plate info, photos,etc.

To my former Masters race coach who posts here, the skis along with the shinguards you sold me are available if someone wants them.

 

[Atomicman]

My experience with the 188/30 M Fis ski (Atomic) is they are more forgiving than the 23-25MM skis. To compensate for the bigger radius, they seemed to have softened the flex. But with that said, you can't just roll them up on edge and expect the tip to "automatically" draw you into the turn like on an 18 M ski. You have to make a deliberate effort to hook the tip up.

 

[JTurner]

You’ve gotten a lot of great advice already, and there’s one thing I think is worth clarifying. Beyond your level of skill development, which a coach can assess and guide you on, a lot depends on the runs you’ll be racing on. If it’s fairly flat but they set courses with real offset and moderate gate spacing, a turnier ski can be very useful. If it’s on a legit mountain region blue run, and it’s long enough to build good speed, then straighter longer skis used with the correct technique for them, will be faster and feel more stable.

 

[CascadeConcrete]

My experience with the 188/30 M Fis ski (Atomic) is they are more forgiving than the 23-25MM skis.

Interesting, is this true even for the tweener skis? The full 30m skis, even in the women's length, honestly scare me a bit as that seems like a huge jump from 18.5m. I don't think I would want to buy a pair of those without advice from a coach who's seen me ski and knows our course sets. I've heard elsewhere that the 30s can be a ton of work if your sets aren't consistently towards the upper end of the allowed radii.

I suppose the best solution is to wait till winter and talk to a coach in person. But skis now is still tempting... Anyways, thanks all for the advice!

 

[James]

Interesting, is this true even for the tweener skis? The full 30m skis, even in the women's length, honestly scare me a bit as that seems like a huge jump from 18.5m. I don't think I would want to buy a pair of those without advice from a coach who's seen me ski and knows our course sets. I've heard elsewhere that the 30s can be a ton of work if your sets aren't consistently towards the upper end of the allowed radii.

I suppose the best solution is to wait till winter and talk to a coach in person. But skis now is still tempting... Anyways, thanks all for the advice!

They also come in different flexes, though how you get them is another matter. Values written in pen on the ski. The 188/30 also comes in 183/30.
I took out my 188/30 for the first time last season. Goodness are they skinny! And I’m usually on slalom skis. Because it was crowded, and just to do it, I made short turns and slid slideways a lot. Not bad at all. When you open it up, boy do they go. I usually ski with goggles up, but with those I decided I didn’t want to be fumbling with them as speed rapidly increased, so I just kept them down.

Upshot- they’re not the planks of yore. Or possibly lore. The flex is well worked out in many. It would not surprise me at all that they’re easier to ski than the old turnier standard of years ago.
Why don’t you get a used pair and try them? 18.5m is pretty damn turny for gs.

 

[CascadeConcrete]

Why don’t you get a used pair and try them? 18.5m is pretty damn turny for gs.

I might, but as I said above, I'm probably going to talk with coaches once training starts.

The 18.5s are my beer league ski and the sets are tighter and turnier than Masters to keep the speeds lower. Even the fastest guys, who are often ex-NCAA or similar, are on smaller radii. I would die trying to take a long radius through those courses.

 

[Swede]

As mentioned, hill and set will determine appropriate ski. Speed and your technique (strength) much more important than your weight when choosing ski. Don’t be afraid of longer radie, you can (learn to) bend them into shorter. With a shorter radie than set … you can’t fix that. Your coach should be able to advice and steer you to the right type and model.

 

[bbbradley]

Don’t be afraid of longer radie, you can (learn to) bend them into shorter. With a shorter radie than set … you can’t fix that. Your coach should be able to advice and steer you to the right type and model.

I used to believe the opposite, but have come around to taking a 30m ski and bending it to make a smaller arc vs trying to teach a smaller radius ski how to open up a turn.

 

[silverback]

I have a pair of 2020 186/26 Atomic G9s with x16 bindings. My kid was about your size the season he skied them. I took them out a couple times last season and prefer the 30m skis but I’m bigger and only free skiing. One ski hit a rock and has a slight edge compression so there is a right and left ski. I’d sell you the bindings for $200 and throw the skis in free. They ski fine but you could think of it as a demo and keep an eye out for a more perfect pair or a different size after you try them and move the bindings.