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Masters GS skis: glossary request ('cheater', 'tweener', 'masters', etc)

Tony Storaro

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Thanks for the heads up if that's actually the case. Lack of solid wood and no double layers would be "no bueno".

I very much doubt Fischer (of all brands) would put anything but solid wood and metal in ski like this but who knows, as far as I remember Dynastar had some construction in one of their rec slalom skis that made me raise a brow a little. Some lightweight stuff different than wood, as if anyone needs lightweight slalom skis.
 

JTurner

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Actually I’m inclined to agree with you, Tony, and it’s scary how often marketing gets details wrong. If it’s some kind of an air carbon core construction though, it will have a different feel than Fischer’s real race skis.
 

Tony Storaro

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Actually I’m inclined to agree with you, Tony, and it’s scary how often marketing gets details wrong. If it’s some kind of an air carbon core construction though, it will have a different feel than Fischer’s real race skis.

On their website it says woodcore laminated by air carbon, whatever that is:


I still see no metal there which is strange. Unless metal is on top of the carbon.
 

Tony S

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On their website it says woodcore laminated by air carbon, whatever that is:


I still see no metal there which is strange. Unless metal is on top of the carbon.
I watched their humorlessly Germanic video on the page and that didn't help, though I did get a lesson in How To Be Very Serious. When you look at the FIS skis they DO say that the construction is "Air Carbon Ti," and they show the alloy layers in the cutaway. That suggests that the one you're looking at maybe does not actually have metal in it.
 

maxwerks

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I am eyeing an unused pair of 2017 Dynastar Masters in 170. The model nr printed on the skis is DAFDB01. According to the old product catalogues the 170 was only available with a 16m radius. However the radius printed on these skis is 18m. Could this be a print mistake, or were the 170s also available with a 18m radius?
 

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cloudymind

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mmm the widths are correct and i don't think the binding position could make the difference. maybe a print mistake, or they intended >16m ?
 

Tony S

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I am eyeing an unused pair of 2017 Dynastar Masters in 170. The model nr printed on the skis is DAFDB01. According to the old product catalogues the 170 was only available with a 16m radius. However the radius printed on these skis is 18m. Could this be a print mistake, or were the 170s also available with a 18m radius?

mmm the widths are correct and i don't think the binding position could make the difference. maybe a print mistake, or they intended >16m ?
Or maybe that's actually a 175! :ogbiggrin:
 

wolcoma

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I think for Masters racing it's really up to the individual racers. I have seen some really fast guys or racers really improve on the Rossi Hero Masters ski. I have tried several versions of the cheater skis and for what ever reason they don't work for me. I would say the disadvantage of the Master cheater skis is most of them don't hold well on the really hard snow. Most of the masters on a full on 30M GS ski are the younger male or female racers (under age 40) out of college or FIS racing. Meanwhile at most Masters races the top skiers are usually on a 25-27 meter ski in the 183 - 190 range. The good news is the new 30M GS skis are much easier to turn and race on than they were ten years ago when they were either 30 or 35 meter radius skis. At least that's what our FIS kids tell me.
 

trailtrimmer

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I am eyeing an unused pair of 2017 Dynastar Masters in 170. The model nr printed on the skis is DAFDB01. According to the old product catalogues the 170 was only available with a 16m radius. However the radius printed on these skis is 18m. Could this be a print mistake, or were the 170s also available with a 18m radius?

The two generations of masters with orange and black topsheets were 170CM = 16M, 175 = 18M and 180CM = 21M. The lengths changed with the new blue color scheme.

There were no alternate radius sizes within the same length.

FWIW, I still beer league on the 180, it's a great ski. Works well for my 185lb, 6' body. I tried a 175 and could fold it up like a soft taco.
 

DocGKR

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As noted in several posts earlier in this thread, the Dynastar Speed WC FIS GS 185cm/27m (102-65-84) (and the identical Rossi twin) are the most lively skis in the sub-30m 65mm wide GS category; quick and easy turning at moderate to high speeds, with superb rebound energy arcing from turn to turn. They are not harsh or demanding for me at 6' 210lbs. These put a big smile on my face and are currently one of my favorite sub-30m GS skis. While purportedly Junior skis, these are fairly burly and favor heavier skiers. Lighter individuals might want to use the 182cm/25m version, which are less demanding and easier to free ski, but is not quite as stable at speed on my feet.
 
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Tony Storaro

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I think for Masters racing it's really up to the individual racers. I have seen some really fast guys or racers really improve on the Rossi Hero Masters ski. I have tried several versions of the cheater skis and for what ever reason they don't work for me. I would say the disadvantage of the Master cheater skis is most of them don't hold well on the really hard snow.

I’d like to wholeheartedly disagree with this. Rossi Hero Master, of which I own 179/19, when properly tuned has a grip on hard/ice that defies the logic and laws of physics. Absolutely wonderful ski. My only regret is I did not go for the longest ones but that’s easily fixed.
 

DocGKR

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I've never seen a single serious Masters Racer use the 70-71mm wide Hero Master for GS. Why? Because they do not offer the same level of grip and stability on hard icy race courses as the narrower 65mm wide 182/25, 185/27, and 188/30 versions.
 

Tony Storaro

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I've never seen a single serious Masters Racer use the 70-71mm wide Hero Master for GS. Why? Because they do not offer the same level of grip and stability on hard icy race courses as the narrower 65mm wide 182/25, 185/27, and 188/30 versions.

Yes, I can believe that there are ski better than the Heros in this regard, but as this type of ski goes they are excellent. Better than the WRTs for example. And this says something.
 

Bblack

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I've never seen a single serious Masters Racer use the 70-71mm wide Hero Master for GS. Why? Because they do not offer the same level of grip and stability on hard icy race courses as the narrower 65mm wide 182/25, 185/27, and 188/30 versions.
This is why I'm interested in the new Fischers or heads with the 65mm underfoot. Hope they give a bit more hard ice grip.
 

maxwerks

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Or maybe that's actually a 175! :ogbiggrin:
No it really is a 170. The waist tip tail dimensions of the 170 and 175 are identical, presumably the 5cm difference in length results in 2m radius difference. If anyone has the formula to calculate radius for given dimensions and length that would be interesting too. My theory is that the factory didn't bother with a seperate stamp for the 170, so both lengths are marked 18m radius.
 

maxwerks

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I've never seen a single serious Masters Racer use the 70-71mm wide Hero Master for GS. Why? Because they do not offer the same level of grip and stability on hard icy race courses as the narrower 65mm wide 182/25, 185/27, and 188/30 versions.
Our race coach in Italy was on Hero Masters. He only used them for coaching and free skiing, not suitable for gates according to him.
 

DocGKR

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Both the WRT-ST and Hero Master, as well as skis like the Head Rebel e.Race Pro and e.Speed Pro are recreational sport carvers, NOT race skis. They are lots of fun on groomers, but are not competitive in gates.
 

Bblack

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Both the WRT-ST and Hero Master, as well as skis like the Head Rebel e.Race Pro and e.Speed Pro are recreational sport carvers, NOT race skis. They are lots of fun on groomers, but are not competitive in gates.
Yea maybe I forgot to mention that I'm not a ski Racer, but instructor.

My 183, 25m are great ski's and I love them.. But the piste (busy area) makes them not always enjoyable.

I still love flying down the blue pistes on them but on red it gets tricky. I hope 21m will make it just that little bit easier.
 

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