The RD is the full on race ski. I had them back when it was called i-gs, and e-gs is a change in name only. I can’t speak first hand to changes in plates between pro and non pro now, but the ones I had were the full adult race plate. It was a well built real deal tweeter race ski, just somewhat surprisingly not very stiff.
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Masters GS skis: glossary request ('cheater', 'tweener', 'masters', etc)
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in my opinion they are 2 totally different skis. the bindind-plate itself is quite racing even on the rd but the ski is different. the PRO is heavier and wider, i don't know how they ski but i'm convinced they are stronger than the RD. i don't have much experience with racing stuff but...
RD is perfectly usable for days on piste with friends, they need just a little bit of care to start the turn compared to a rossignol hero LT but still very forgiving, i found them much easier than using SL or the straight skis i had as a child.
RD is perfectly usable for days on piste with friends, they need just a little bit of care to start the turn compared to a rossignol hero LT but still very forgiving, i found them much easier than using SL or the straight skis i had as a child.
I looked them up and see what you mean regarding the current season models. The pro is a wider waisted ski as you say, and since it’s made for masters it makes sense that it could be made for heavier skiers than the tweeter skis, and so is noticeably stiffer. The ones I had were the tweener skis before pros existed.
Weight really just a small part of the equation. Speed and teqnique of much more importance to create force to bend a ski. So comparing your skiing to what 1st year U16 athletes do can be a rough bench mark for where you are at.
An example of a good 1st year U16 skiing GS practice (from over here).
And random U16 comp. found on YT from Rocky Mountains:
An example of a good 1st year U16 skiing GS practice (from over here).
And random U16 comp. found on YT from Rocky Mountains:
Agree, just making the observation that if speed and technique are approximately equal, a heavier skier will get more energy back from a ski that's a little stiffer than a ski of the appropriate stiffness for a 120lb/55Kg skier.
I'm happy my first ever post found some unexpected traction!
I've been looking at videos of Masters racers and u16s at national level competitions. The difference in athleticism is... very apparent.
Head recommends the e-gs rd with team plate (vs WCR 14 plate, which is also on the pro) for u16 and masters -- 70kgs --> 185, 25r. I'm confused about who the e-gs with the WCR 14 plate are for, as they are clearly non-fis geometry.
Considering how those u16 kids ski, at 75kgs (shooting for 70!) there's no way I'm bending those skis more than a 70kg male athlete. Probably not even a 60kg female athlete (176/23r -- my model)!
I definitely see why the pro would be stiffer, though; it's designed with big boys in mind!
I train with a level 4 Danish instructor. To get your level 4 there, you have to ski a gs course at a pretty high competency. He skis on 183/24r skis, thinks my e-gs Rds are a good fit for me.
I feel like I've dived into these skis so much that it should have it's own thread. Apologies if I strayed off the core topic too much.
I've been looking at videos of Masters racers and u16s at national level competitions. The difference in athleticism is... very apparent.
Head recommends the e-gs rd with team plate (vs WCR 14 plate, which is also on the pro) for u16 and masters -- 70kgs --> 185, 25r. I'm confused about who the e-gs with the WCR 14 plate are for, as they are clearly non-fis geometry.
Considering how those u16 kids ski, at 75kgs (shooting for 70!) there's no way I'm bending those skis more than a 70kg male athlete. Probably not even a 60kg female athlete (176/23r -- my model)!
I definitely see why the pro would be stiffer, though; it's designed with big boys in mind!
I train with a level 4 Danish instructor. To get your level 4 there, you have to ski a gs course at a pretty high competency. He skis on 183/24r skis, thinks my e-gs Rds are a good fit for me.
I feel like I've dived into these skis so much that it should have it's own thread. Apologies if I strayed off the core topic too much.
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If you train with a coach or instructor with race experience, go with their recommendations for you. No way people on the internet can know your skiing better than they can.
As for what those can be used for, for USSS in the states (national club level racing below FIS) the equipment regulations for U16 and older allow down to a 17M radius for GS skis, so these can be used by Non-FIS kids or masters.
As for what those can be used for, for USSS in the states (national club level racing below FIS) the equipment regulations for U16 and older allow down to a 17M radius for GS skis, so these can be used by Non-FIS kids or masters.
I’d say that pretty much no one in U16 ski on r17 m skis in GS. If not already in U14 so when transitioning from 2:nd year U14 to first year U16 it’s strongly reccomended to go up on minimum 23-25 m.
Almost all the U16's here are on something around a 182-188 23-27m ski for GS.
Update on 188/30m Women’s FIS GS Skis for Masters racing
Note that all of these skis had a 0.5/3 tune by Start Haus, Race Place, or Peak Performance; hand flex of nose and tail is simply in comparison to the other skis listed here. The subjective comments below are biased by my age, condition, skiing style, location, etc…
Atomic Redster G9 FIS w/Revoshok 188cm/30m (101.5-65-83.8) (stiff nose-medium tail): Wow! These are intuitive and vibrant, smooth and tolerant of my errors, while encouraging me to go faster—fluidly snapping from turn to turn. They are now my favorite 188/30’s!
Augment FIS 188cm/30m (100-65-81) (stiff nose-stiff tail): These and the identical Van Deer, are silky smooth, offering easy turn initiation, superb energy, a nice sweet spot tolerant of errors, and are elegant and stable at speed. They equal my previous favorite Atomic 188/30’s.
Blizzard/Nordica FIS RD 188cm/30m (101-65-84) (soft nose-soft tail): Except for Augment, these are as close to a true World Cup race room ski as you can get from a commercial ski shop. They are a serious and powerful ski with a taut ride, but with good technique, offer amazing stability at speed and impeccable edge hold. These are a close runner-up to my favorite 188/30’s, but for me, they are perhaps a bit more solemn and less smile inducing than the Atomics or Augments.
Dynastar/Rossignol FIS GS 188cm/30m (101-65-81) (medium nose-medium tail): Given that the Dynastar/Rossi 185/27m is my favorite sub-30m Masters ski and likewise the Dynastar/Rossi 193/30m is my favorite men’s GS ski, it is surprising that the Dynastar/Rossi 188/30m did not excite me the same way. While this is an eminently fun ski and perhaps the easiest 30m model to use, the Dynastar/Rossi 188/30m lacks a bit of the tenacity, power, and energy that I typically enjoy in a GS ski.
Head Worldcup Rebels FIS i.GS RD 188cm/30m (101-65-82) (medium nose-soft tail): Roll these up on edge and you feel glued to the snow as they power through turns at blistering speed. However, they are not as lively and energetic as some other GS skis, offering less feedback and rebound than I prefer.
Nordica/Blizzard FIS WC GS 188cm/30m “Stiff” (101-65-84) (stiff nose-stiff tail): These are deadly serious, offering a locked in ride like on a rail road track. They required greater speed and more force to initiate turns. Definitely not fun loving or tolerant of errors. These were my least favorite 188/30’s; a bit surprising since the softer flex version is one of my favorites.
For Masters GS I suspect it is reasonable to have both a 30m FIS GS ski and a tighter radius sub-30m Juniors/Masters GS ski, as they seem complement one another depending on course set, snow conditions, body strength/conditioning, accumulated injuries, and amount of practice in the season. I notice as my season progresses, I am much better able to handle the stronger, longer radius 30m skis than at the start of the season--at least until I get injured....
Note that all of these skis had a 0.5/3 tune by Start Haus, Race Place, or Peak Performance; hand flex of nose and tail is simply in comparison to the other skis listed here. The subjective comments below are biased by my age, condition, skiing style, location, etc…
Atomic Redster G9 FIS w/Revoshok 188cm/30m (101.5-65-83.8) (stiff nose-medium tail): Wow! These are intuitive and vibrant, smooth and tolerant of my errors, while encouraging me to go faster—fluidly snapping from turn to turn. They are now my favorite 188/30’s!
Augment FIS 188cm/30m (100-65-81) (stiff nose-stiff tail): These and the identical Van Deer, are silky smooth, offering easy turn initiation, superb energy, a nice sweet spot tolerant of errors, and are elegant and stable at speed. They equal my previous favorite Atomic 188/30’s.
Blizzard/Nordica FIS RD 188cm/30m (101-65-84) (soft nose-soft tail): Except for Augment, these are as close to a true World Cup race room ski as you can get from a commercial ski shop. They are a serious and powerful ski with a taut ride, but with good technique, offer amazing stability at speed and impeccable edge hold. These are a close runner-up to my favorite 188/30’s, but for me, they are perhaps a bit more solemn and less smile inducing than the Atomics or Augments.
Dynastar/Rossignol FIS GS 188cm/30m (101-65-81) (medium nose-medium tail): Given that the Dynastar/Rossi 185/27m is my favorite sub-30m Masters ski and likewise the Dynastar/Rossi 193/30m is my favorite men’s GS ski, it is surprising that the Dynastar/Rossi 188/30m did not excite me the same way. While this is an eminently fun ski and perhaps the easiest 30m model to use, the Dynastar/Rossi 188/30m lacks a bit of the tenacity, power, and energy that I typically enjoy in a GS ski.
Head Worldcup Rebels FIS i.GS RD 188cm/30m (101-65-82) (medium nose-soft tail): Roll these up on edge and you feel glued to the snow as they power through turns at blistering speed. However, they are not as lively and energetic as some other GS skis, offering less feedback and rebound than I prefer.
Nordica/Blizzard FIS WC GS 188cm/30m “Stiff” (101-65-84) (stiff nose-stiff tail): These are deadly serious, offering a locked in ride like on a rail road track. They required greater speed and more force to initiate turns. Definitely not fun loving or tolerant of errors. These were my least favorite 188/30’s; a bit surprising since the softer flex version is one of my favorites.
For Masters GS I suspect it is reasonable to have both a 30m FIS GS ski and a tighter radius sub-30m Juniors/Masters GS ski, as they seem complement one another depending on course set, snow conditions, body strength/conditioning, accumulated injuries, and amount of practice in the season. I notice as my season progresses, I am much better able to handle the stronger, longer radius 30m skis than at the start of the season--at least until I get injured....
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Same here with most U16s on 23-25 meter skis. I was just responding to the earlier question that if they’re sometimes called “FIS” on the topsheet, but don’t don’t meet FIS regs, what can the sub 30 meter skis be used for.
As noted earlier, sub-30m GS skis are good for Masters, as well as U16: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/mas...-tweener-masters-etc.22461/page-6#post-832884
soo been playing around, skied the ti2 yesterday, thought about using for masters, kinda meh (probably tune, but working on it)
then, today head fgs RD 188/27, wowie, theese things are fun, can anyone tell me more about them? I'd honesty like them a bit stiffer, but I can really load them up and have fun, the spec says 27, but they feel fun, even for freeskiiing, vs say G9RS 184
belive its this at bottom in spec here https://headracingcanada.com/collec...p-rebels-e-gs-rd-fis-1?variant=40606158946465
then, today head fgs RD 188/27, wowie, theese things are fun, can anyone tell me more about them? I'd honesty like them a bit stiffer, but I can really load them up and have fun, the spec says 27, but they feel fun, even for freeskiiing, vs say G9RS 184
belive its this at bottom in spec here https://headracingcanada.com/collec...p-rebels-e-gs-rd-fis-1?variant=40606158946465
Last season I tested the 18/19 193 against a recent Rossi. Looks like those Heads are the same vintage. The Heads struck me as very flimsy in comparison, with brittle, flappy feeling to the tip. The Rossis felt much damper and more solid. Just me or were the 188s similar?
The Head FIS and Junior GS skis I've been on have not been flimsy or flappy, rather offering tremendous edge hold, but were very damp and lacking energy. The Rossi's generally have been more dynamic, energetic, and fun, without that locked in railroad track feeing.
Anyone try the new Volkl GS ski yet with the new tailored carbon tip rather than the UVO external dampener at the tip? I spent most of this non-winter here in the East skiing on my 2021 188 cm 27M GS skis in a combination of rainy wet conditions and then boiler plate ice. Sadly I only skied on my fat skis maybe two or three times all winter. Fortunately my 188 Volkl are great on the hard snow and ice not only in the course, but coaching and free skiing too. Looks like they sold out on the Race Place website so hopefully that's a good sign for next season.
the-raceplace.com
2023 Volkl Racetiger Racestock GS Skis
As U14s, U16s and Masters climb the ranks, they can trust Völkl to offer a comprehensive progression of lengths and radii to achieve success. Volkl's Race Stock skis in progressive sizes provide the perfect setup for every racer on the hill.
the-raceplace.com
Have not been on them, as very few folks here seem to race on Volkl. That ski does look interesting, and the 2024 version is startubg to become available: https://the-raceplace.com/collectio...oducts/2024-volkl-racetiger-racestock-gs-skis
I have the 2023 version, they're solid. They don't ski super different than the previous versions with the UVO, but it's sure nice to have a flat topsheet.
Our Master’s race season is sadly now finished.
As I previously discussed, for Masters GS it is reasonable to have both a 30m FIS GS ski and a tighter radius sub-30m Juniors/Masters GS ski, as they seem complement one another depending on course set, snow conditions, body strength/conditioning, accumulated injuries, and amount of practice in the season. I’ve noticed as my season progresses, I am much better able to handle the stronger, longer radius 30m skis than at the start of the season--at least until I get injured.
This year, due to all those pesky blizzards dumping several feet of fresh, fluffy powder every week, our Masters race season was highly curtailed, with many cancelled training sessions and races. Thus, I never spent much time on my 188/30m Atomic Revo GS skis and primarily used sub-30m GS skis for the few GS sessions we were able to conduct.
Historically, I’ve loved the Rossi/Dynastar 185/27m ski w/PX18 binding. It offers a fun, energetic, yet forgiving ride with easy turn initiation at both moderate and higher speeds—allowing it to be used for free skiing without issues, as well as run well in the course. It is relatively burly for a Junior ski, so lighter weight individuals may find the 182/25m version a better fit. This is probably the most commonly used Master’s GS ski in our area, as it works for a lot of people.
As a lark, I picked-up the Nordica 188/25m Junior ski in late 2021, as noted here: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/a-tale-of-two-188cm-gs-skis.28574. It is strong and powerful, requiring higher speeds before coming alive, then offering spectacular edge hold with phenomenal stability at high speed. It is less tolerant of errors and demands good technique. Since slower speed turn initiation is not it’s forte, it is not as pleasant to take it out of its normal domain in the gates to go free ski.
As the season progressed, the Nordicas grew on me and I began to spend more time on them. Much like with my FIS SL’s, while I subjectively prefer the joyful, energetic fun of the Rossi/Dynastar, objectively I ski better in gates on the Nordica/Blizzard--getting higher edge angles, better lines, faster times. Plus I love the Marker Comp/Race 20 bindings!
As I previously discussed, for Masters GS it is reasonable to have both a 30m FIS GS ski and a tighter radius sub-30m Juniors/Masters GS ski, as they seem complement one another depending on course set, snow conditions, body strength/conditioning, accumulated injuries, and amount of practice in the season. I’ve noticed as my season progresses, I am much better able to handle the stronger, longer radius 30m skis than at the start of the season--at least until I get injured.
This year, due to all those pesky blizzards dumping several feet of fresh, fluffy powder every week, our Masters race season was highly curtailed, with many cancelled training sessions and races. Thus, I never spent much time on my 188/30m Atomic Revo GS skis and primarily used sub-30m GS skis for the few GS sessions we were able to conduct.
Historically, I’ve loved the Rossi/Dynastar 185/27m ski w/PX18 binding. It offers a fun, energetic, yet forgiving ride with easy turn initiation at both moderate and higher speeds—allowing it to be used for free skiing without issues, as well as run well in the course. It is relatively burly for a Junior ski, so lighter weight individuals may find the 182/25m version a better fit. This is probably the most commonly used Master’s GS ski in our area, as it works for a lot of people.
As a lark, I picked-up the Nordica 188/25m Junior ski in late 2021, as noted here: https://www.skitalk.com/threads/a-tale-of-two-188cm-gs-skis.28574. It is strong and powerful, requiring higher speeds before coming alive, then offering spectacular edge hold with phenomenal stability at high speed. It is less tolerant of errors and demands good technique. Since slower speed turn initiation is not it’s forte, it is not as pleasant to take it out of its normal domain in the gates to go free ski.
As the season progressed, the Nordicas grew on me and I began to spend more time on them. Much like with my FIS SL’s, while I subjectively prefer the joyful, energetic fun of the Rossi/Dynastar, objectively I ski better in gates on the Nordica/Blizzard--getting higher edge angles, better lines, faster times. Plus I love the Marker Comp/Race 20 bindings!
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