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MCL injuries suck

David Chaus

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In August I was digging out some invasive trees in the garden and apparently went at it a little too aggressively when I hit some tree roots, and kept at it. The next day I felt some pain, and swelling. I was mostly able to just wrap with a stretchy bandage and go about my business, sometimes using Voltaren (a topical NSAID).

It kept hurting, and unfortunately I was in the middle of dealing with my sister (who didn't actually die from multiple myeloma, at least not yet). I was working with hospice and arranging caregivers and she was getting more delusional and hallucinating. Amazingly, she came out of it after 2 months, has unenrolled from hospice and we've tapered off the caregiver hours. At the same time Shamora's dad has been in the VA hospital, and finally passed a week ago.

I finally went to a walk-in clinic on 8/21, X-rays didn't show any more damage or deterioration than they would expect for a 59 year old male, actually in surprisingly good shape. I wasn't a high enough priority to get an MRI that day to check for soft-tissue damage. I requested a referral for PT rather than orthopedics. The doc recommended a knee brace (with hinges) which I have been using.

PT started 10 days ago. It appears to be an MCL strain/sprain, probably not a tear so not level 3 or 4, more like a low 2. The PT noted that if it were a level 1 the issue might have resolved by now with what I was already doing. Because of the lack of flexing and extending (which hurts like hell) with normal walking, the different muscles, tendons and ligaments are getting stiff, and now hurting when I stretch them. My body has compensated by using my lower back more to move my leg, so it's sore, as well as my neck, and sometimes hips and groin muscles. My right shoulder hurts in a way that it hasn't since I had issues wit adhesive capsulitis 10 yeas ago. Sleeping is uncomfortable, laying on my side mean the MCL is pressing agains the other knee, or if scissor my legs a little my lower back hurts, and/or the back of the knee is sore. Laying on my back sometimes works, other times it aggravates my neck and lower back. Just turning over in bed hurts. I'm in more pain that when this all started.

Waking up is torture, I am so stiff. The PT gave me a few exercises to do first thing to straighten the knee, and then to flex it in order to get things moving and improve mobility. Other than I need to "do less" other than icing every three hours. It takes me a long to get out of bed, even more to get dressed. Who would have thought that putting on socks was so much work and so much pain?

Oh by the way, I can't take high doses of NSAIDs or other pain relievers due to early kidney damage due to 49 years with Type 1 diabetes. It's been stable due to good blood sugar control the past decade or so, but don't want to risk further damage.

Furthermore I have been feeling like crap for a month. I took a Covid test on 8/18 and again on 8/30, both negative (yes I've been vaccinated since mid-March). I sent a message to my PCP noting the last time I recall feeling like this (sort of like a fever with no elevated temperature, malaise/low energy, dry eyes, minor aches and pains, etc.) was when I first had thyroid issues in 2015. I have been on a prescription of synthetic thryoid since then with no problems, and in fact had a regularly scheduled TSH test in 7/22. He felt that thyroid issues wouldn't change that fast, and ordered a bunch of other labs, then follow up labs for B-12 which was borderline low, but those have all been inconclusive. If this persists he suggested I make an appointment to come into the office. I do have a phone appointment with my endocrinologist for my diabetes management on Tuesday and will probably bring this up, and subsequently may go into the PCP office. My last three A1C's have been 6.3, 6.2 and 6.5 which is excellent for Type 1 diabetes, so I can't imagine it's a complication of diabetes, but then she's an endocrinologist and if it is a thyroid issue or something else related to endocrine system she would be the one to talk to.

in the meantime, the demand for counseling services continues, and my schedule get full week after week. When I have a cancellation, I'm no longer trying to fill it, nonetheless every week I get request for service and hate to have turn people or EAP's trying a place a referral. At some point I should take a few weeks off from seeing clients, but that's what I was planning to do during the winter. To ski.

Meanwhile, there's a lot of tasks around the house and garden I've neglected, and I'm not happy at having to stay in "do less" mode, OTOH I have little motivation to do anything. Skiing seems like such a distant possibility. I know it'll all get better, and I'm accepting that emotions are not rational, so feeling despondent if part of the process.

That said, right now it totally sucks.
 

martyg

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I feel your pain. I have two PTs that I rely in. Both at the top of their game. One was an Army PT. came out of the Army's program ay Baylor, and worked at the Venter for the Intrepid. If you were JSOC, if the gov. Invested millions in your training, and you were injured, that is where you were sent. His mission was to return warriors to the field stronger than they were before.

Some quick notes:

- Thank fucking god it is only a strain. I completed separated my quad tendon. You should be thankful.
- If within 6 weeks of injury, get on a plane. Go see Dr. Karli at The Steadman Clinic. Get stem cell injections.
- Ice is an analgesic. I invested in an ice therapy machine. It was task one in the AMs.
- Look into a MarcPro.
- NSAIDs screw with tissue remodeling at the cellular level. It will be a detriment to a robust repair. You don't want them.
- Turn yourself inside out on PT day. Start with a very high quality, NSF certified pre-workout drink. Finish with a NSF certified post-workout drink within 30 minutes of your last hard effort. If you cool down for 30 minutes on the bike, that drink should be ingested pre bike.
- Recovery, for me, is the hard part. That means checking every single box, every single day, based on the best Source of The Truth: nutrition based on nutritional based blood draws (not some shit on social media), hormone optimization based on blood draw (not some shit on social media), crazy amounts of sleep, deep tissue massage, every day is about optimizing recovery, so you can kill yourself in rehab.

It is all very simple. However the caveat is that people confuse "simple", with "easy".

Best to you.
 

Jim Kenney

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Sorry to hear this David. Hang in there. You were skiing so beautifully the last time I saw you. Hope these pics from Jackson, Feb 2020 will cheer you and motivate you.
pug gang david.jpg

pug gang david 4.jpg

pug gang david 2.jpg
 

Andy Mink

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Just do it. When I had my MCL sprain/tear skiing in December or January with @Tricia a few years ago my PT said get a brace and wear it until the end of ski season. I did. Of course that ski season went until July!
20210911_172811.jpg
 

martyg

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To an amazing degree!
It saved my sanity after waking up for the first three weeks. My lovely wife had it waiting. Not much theraputic use, as per the three PTs that I worked with, but it saves one from a lot of pain. And I guess that, in itself, is theraputic.
 
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David Chaus

David Chaus

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It sounds like everything is piling on. I'm sorry. Have you tried a pillow between your knees for sleeping?
Indeed I have. A blanket between my knees is about right, a pillow is too much. Everything is a work in progress.

Just do it.
Which "it" am I to do? I'm already wearing a hinged brace, though need to take it off to flex and extend the knee enough for the range of motion my PT recommends. The brace is mostly for stability when walking. Though that Shock Dr brace does look intriguing.

I'm already icing every 3 hours and sometimes more often. I can tell you, most of those ice packs that say to keep the fabric around it, don't get anywhere near cold enough. I keep the cold pack against my skin.

I typically have a high threshold for pain, but the last week has been unrelenting in discomfort. I'm not used to yelping when trying roll over in the middle of the night, or when putting on or taking off shoes. Like this is what it'll be like when I'm old and disabled.

I'd be more optimistic if I wasn't also dealing with the other physical/medical issues. I hope to get those resolved soon.
 
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David Chaus

David Chaus

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Sorry to hear this David. Hang in there. You were skiing so beautifully the last time I saw you. Hope these pics from Jackson, Feb 2020 will cheer you and motivate you.
View attachment 142153
View attachment 142154
View attachment 142155
Jim, thanks, I hadn't seen these before.

Though, I'm seeing I'm in the backseat, a little embarrassing really. You can see how bowlegged I am in the last picture, more so with the right leg.

I have made some improvements after 8 weeks of clinics last season, to follow up the the 5 weeks I had done prior to the '20 Jackson trip. But yes, the goal is so ski smoothly and efficiently all the time, and I'm working on bumps and off-piste for sure.
 

Andy Mink

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Which "it" am I to do?
Sorry, the brace. It felt weird to ski without it after several months it it on. Yours sounds much more painful than mine though mine was weak enough that I was afraid it would totally blow without the brace.
 

Tricia

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I don't have much to offer about the knee, but I wanted to say I'm sorry you've been dealing with all of this. That's a lot on anyone's plate at once.
Give Shamora my love and know that we're sending good vibes your way.
:(
 

Tom Co.

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David, I have been using this cream on my four times surgically repaired back and it has helped.
I read about it on TGR in the gimp central thread.
This is the website where I purchased it. There was a special deal for TGR members
 

dovski

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Indeed I have. A blanket between my knees is about right, a pillow is too much. Everything is a work in progress.


Which "it" am I to do? I'm already wearing a hinged brace, though need to take it off to flex and extend the knee enough for the range of motion my PT recommends. The brace is mostly for stability when walking. Though that Shock Dr brace does look intriguing.

I'm already icing every 3 hours and sometimes more often. I can tell you, most of those ice packs that say to keep the fabric around it, don't get anywhere near cold enough. I keep the cold pack against my skin.

I typically have a high threshold for pain, but the last week has been unrelenting in discomfort. I'm not used to yelping when trying roll over in the middle of the night, or when putting on or taking off shoes. Like this is what it'll be like when I'm old and disabled.

I'd be more optimistic if I wasn't also dealing with the other physical/medical issues. I hope to get those resolved soon.
Hi David,

I love and trust my PT, he really has been a life saver for me, but to be fair his diagnostic skills only go so far. Given what you are describing and the steps you are already taking, a second opinion from an orthopedic surgeon who works with athletes may be warranted, and they will likely want an MRI to confirm their findings. Depending on what they find they may adjust your PT, prescribe a better brace or in the case where the damage will not heal well on its own recommend a surgery. Hopefully surgery is not needed as that may impact part of your ski season this year, but better to get this addressed early as opposed to waiting and finding out the hard way. Either way I hope you feel better soon and get lots f great turns in this year.

Best,
Dovski
 

tromano

Goin' the way they're pointed...
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David, The strain your under is coming through and an injury on top of that has to be very difficult. Take care of yourself and heal well.
 
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David Chaus

David Chaus

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David, The strain your under is coming through and an injury on top of that has to be very difficult. Take care of yourself and heal well.
Thanks.

Hi David,

I love and trust my PT, he really has been a life saver for me, but to be fair his diagnostic skills only go so far. Given what you are describing and the steps you are already taking, a second opinion from an orthopedic surgeon who works with athletes may be warranted, and they will likely want an MRI to confirm their findings. Depending on what they find they may adjust your PT, prescribe a better brace or in the case where the damage will not heal well on its own recommend a surgery. Hopefully surgery is not needed as that may impact part of your ski season this year, but better to get this addressed early as opposed to waiting and finding out the hard way. Either way I hope you feel better soon and get lots f great turns in this year.

Best,
Dovski
I will give my PT a chance, it's only been 3 sessions so far. I have my next visit tomorrow morning.

I will admit that I took a Vicodin today, from a 10 year old prescription bottle. Made me a little loopy, but it was enough relief I was able to take a nap today. Hope I don't need another to sleep tonight.
 

cantunamunch

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In August I was digging out some invasive trees in the garden and apparently went at it a little too aggressively when I hit some tree roots, and kept at it. The next day I felt some pain, and swelling. I was mostly able to just wrap with a stretchy bandage and go about my business, sometimes using Voltaren (a topical NSAID).

It kept hurting, and unfortunately I was in the middle of dealing with my sister (who didn't actually die from multiple myeloma, at least not yet). I was working with hospice and arranging caregivers and she was getting more delusional and hallucinating. Amazingly, she came out of it after 2 months, has unenrolled from hospice and we've tapered off the caregiver hours. At the same time Shamora's dad has been in the VA hospital, and finally passed a week ago.

I finally went to a walk-in clinic on 8/21, X-rays didn't show any more damage or deterioration than they would expect for a 59 year old male, actually in surprisingly good shape. I wasn't a high enough priority to get an MRI that day to check for soft-tissue damage. I requested a referral for PT rather than orthopedics. The doc recommended a knee brace (with hinges) which I have been using.

PT started 10 days ago. It appears to be an MCL strain/sprain, probably not a tear so not level 3 or 4, more like a low 2. The PT noted that if it were a level 1 the issue might have resolved by now with what I was already doing. Because of the lack of flexing and extending (which hurts like hell) with normal walking, the different muscles, tendons and ligaments are getting stiff, and now hurting when I stretch them. My body has compensated by using my lower back more to move my leg, so it's sore, as well as my neck, and sometimes hips and groin muscles. My right shoulder hurts in a way that it hasn't since I had issues wit adhesive capsulitis 10 yeas ago. Sleeping is uncomfortable, laying on my side mean the MCL is pressing agains the other knee, or if scissor my legs a little my lower back hurts, and/or the back of the knee is sore. Laying on my back sometimes works, other times it aggravates my neck and lower back. Just turning over in bed hurts. I'm in more pain that when this all started.

Waking up is torture, I am so stiff. The PT gave me a few exercises to do first thing to straighten the knee, and then to flex it in order to get things moving and improve mobility. Other than I need to "do less" other than icing every three hours. It takes me a long to get out of bed, even more to get dressed. Who would have thought that putting on socks was so much work and so much pain?

Yup. Been there done that. And let me guess, you absolutely HATE people who hold doors open for you because any twist motion - like reaching for an open door - is almost immediate pain.

Throw pillows for in between the legs too big? I also have a collection of these - Akton decubitus pads. http://www.akton.com/akton.html if you don't feel like paying premium, you can find a poor-mans facsimile on ebay under motorcycle seat pads like so:




My first MCL - yes they kept recurring because weakened - was in 2006 in a tree well. I've built up a collection of braces since then.
 
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