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Media Coverage of WC racing - Streaming or TV

Peefeeniz

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Now that I've read about MS's back so much I can't help but look at her runs at Solden, Levi and Killington with a jaded eye, like she's damaged goods. Even though she's either first or second against the best in the world it does seem like she's stiff and robotic, as Muleski said, she learned moves versus flowing with the hill.

Dang the power of suggestion is a wicked influence. Plus, we only see them for a few seconds, from odd angles that don't always reveal what's happening, now I understand how coaches can "typecast" a skier and watch them to confirm a bias formed long before.

It's like watching the line of scrimmage on TV, you really have no idea what the linemen are doing to each other because it all happens so quick.

~~~

So who else was booted off Women's tech back in 2011-12 to make room for Mikaela? Julia Ford?
 

S.H.

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So who else was booted off Women's tech back in 2011-12 to make room for Mikaela? Julia Ford?
Julia was a speed skier

Skied a bunch of tech after she joined redneck racing after she didn't make criteria after 2014, but ... her world cup starts are virtually all SG and DH.
 

Average Joe

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So who else was booted off Women's tech back in 2011-12 to make room for Mikaela? Julia Ford?
No one gets "booted off" . Every year is a clean slate, you are named, or not.
And Mikaela was 16 in 2011, so it's more likely she would have been named to a development /junior team. It was probably her first year.
 

Muleski

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So who else was booted off Women's tech back in 2011-12 to make room for Mikaela? Julia Ford?

As Average Joe notes, nobody gets "booted off" the USST mid season for a lack of results, performance or for ANY reason other than some really stupid and embarrassing behavior. And that's happened about twice in 40 years. And not with women. You might want to tone done the way you respond to posts. Sounds like you're lobbing a grenade at times.

Julia was a speed skier

Skied a bunch of tech after she joined redneck racing after she didn't make criteria after 2014, but ... her world cup starts are virtually all SG and DH.

Thanks, and yep, 100% correct. Ford kids are the same age as mine. All were very good. Willie easily could have been a discretionary USST pick. Unlike most his age, he did not pursue any PG years, went right to UNH, and has a great college career. Julia had jets...all along.

No one gets "booted off" . Every year is a clean slate, you are named, or not.
And Mikaela was 16 in 2011, so it's more likely she would have been named to a development /junior team. It was probably her first year.

THIS. You get "renominated" to the team every year. In some cases, you move up. In some cases you fail to meet the objective criteria and get dropped. Some times, you fail to make criteria and you become a discretionary pick. A few years ago, to eliminate the yo-yo of being on the team for a year, then dropped, then perhaps renominated in a couple of years, the team decided that once on the squad, you had at least two years.

MS. She was on the USST B team for the 2011-2012 season. I believe that the year before she had won the bronze medal in the SL at Junior Worlds, and had scored points on the WC in both SL and GS. I know that she was the US National champ in the spring of 2011, and she piled up a bunch of NorAm wins. Can't recall what the exact criteria was but her ascent was clear. Boom!

The "making room" for her, is this is what Peefeeniz is getting at is what some us have posted a few times at the least. Gets old. In the spring of 2015, I think {whatever year she had the knee injury and missed 2-3 months}, her mother in particular made a very strong case {some would say a demand} that the USST create a separate and distinct "training group" for JUST MS. Prior to that she had been part of the W's WC tech team and I believe that at the end of the season her training group consisted of her, Lila Lapanja and Paula Moltzan. I may be missing one more.

The team agreed, and things were realigned. Brandon Dyksterhouse left the team when this decision was made. He felt that Mikaela had make huge gains {she had} as part of their training group of 3-4. He had no interest in coaching just MS, and he was probably not pleased by having the mother of an athlete have more push with Tiger Shaw than he had as the Head W's coach. Mike Day was hired as Mikaela's head coach, after what seemed like a long time period. I believe a number of potentials had said "no interest."

I can't recall the why's and what happened. LL had some injury problems, I think. Not sure if Paula had any injury, but both left the team, failing I believe to make criteria. Paula as we know ended up at UVM and then back on the WC, and back on the team. LL has never rejoined the USST.

Interesting to see that as her career continues to put her at the top, and as she matures, MS seems to be gravitating to being a "team leader" and mentor type.....though she pretty much exclusively trains on her own. Sometimes they work a couple of others in....probably for "pace."

But no, nobody was "booted off the team to make room for MS."

I was working at the Eastern J3 Junior Olympics when Mikaela had her legendary SL win. I think it was an 11 second margin as I recall. And it was real clear to me, watching her warm up, that she had another gear or two. I was standing with her two coaches, who I knew well. This was her last pre-FIS year. She was 14. It was very clear what "we" had in her. She always just smoked her age group peers, and she became a huge focus of the USST. Which has worked out "pretty well", I'd say.

Much like LV, and Julia Mancuso. Identified VERY early.
 

James

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I think it was an 11 second margin as I recall.
Goodness.

Willie easily could have been a discretionary USST pick.
I’m pretty sure this is the same Willie Ford, but I think there are two. Either in a high school or college race he crashed and dislocated his shoulder. My BiL was either gate keeping or just watching nearby and knew Willie. He’s a doc but no ortho. Willie insisted they attempt to get the arm back in it’s socket right there on the course. Now! Him being a big guy helped as they used his weight down hill and pulling uphill to successfully get it back in.
 

Peefeeniz

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As Average Joe notes, nobody gets "booted off" the USST mid season for a lack of results, performance or for ANY reason other than some really stupid and embarrassing behavior. And that's happened about twice in 40 years. And not with women. You might want to tone done the way you respond to posts. Sounds like you're lobbing a grenade at times.

Point taken, I appreciate your inside knowledge and willingness to name names. But I'll try to be more diplomatic.

I take it from your other comments you feel like some of the older male speed skiers have been prolonging their departure a bit too long. One of the things that has never been clear to me is how much funding these guys get and how much it's depriving younger speed skiers from getting funding? Of course there is the argument that their experience and knowledge is useful as it trickles down to the kids.

It is interesting that the trajectory for US speed seems to plateau once they get into the top 15 or 30. Fourth place for an American is like a First for a Euro. And it seems to be worth 5-6 years more on the team.

My read on things was that Brandon Dyksterhouse was/is one of the best coaches but MS's Mom ran him off for being a team player. One has to wonder if MS had a more "normal" team experience whether she would have helped other teammates accelerate at the expense of delaying some of her early victories. I guess these same dynamic has been played out in every school district that's experimented with blended or accelerated classes... who does it benefit? The exceptional or the mediocre?
 
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Swede

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Moving up and into the first start group in speed takes time, normally seasons. Patience to build experience, learn the hills and dial in gear is crucial. The difference between 30 and 15 and 7 are tiny details, yet enormous work. I think there are exciting speed talent in the US, RCS, Breezy J, River R, Erik Arvidsson and probably a couple I missed. Breezy already a top skier. RCS too. One or more them will podium any time soon. I’ll bet a Swix CH7 on that
 

Tony S

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Both ( Bode and MS) also seem similar in interview situations: actually considering the question and giving candid , meaningful answers. Though, she seems to have a much better filter between her mouth and brain.
This subject of interviews is interesting to me. Probably because A) I have poor filtering myself and B) As a viewer and fan I'm bored and faintly insulted by vacuous scripted answers.

I totally hear that many professional athletes make a ton of money, and that at some level they are "products" and "spokespeople" and that they therefore "represent a brand" and need to be "professional" in their actions. But I would ask, what kind of professionals are they? Are they advertising professionals? No. Are they marketing executives? No. Are they press secretaries or public relations people? No. No no no. They are ski racers. That is their profession.

I hear the argument that they should wear one or more of these other hats, but why? Why would you expect that someone who devotes every waking moment to being the very best in his or her sport should be more than barely passable in any of these other roles? Why and how should their compensation or notoreity change that reality? More significantly, why should we expect them to dissemble when they talk to the press? Why wouldn't we WANT them to be truthful and (therefore) colorful?

Think of a rock musician. Let's say s/he uses a Fender guitar. You think Fender is telling him or her to dial it back? Hardly! The rowdier, the better, right?

Let's make everything a Fortune 500 snooze fest. Yeah. Oh boy.
 

Tony S

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One or more them will podium any time soon. I’ll bet a Swix CH7 on that

Exactly. Brilliantly (if snarkily) stated.
 

James

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I hear the argument that they should wear one or more of these other hats, but why? Why would you expect that someone who devotes every waking moment to being the very best in his or her sport should be more than barely passable in any of these other roles? Why and how should their compensation or notoreity change that reality? More significantly, why should we expect them to dissemble when they talk to the press? Why wouldn't we WANT them to be truthful and (therefore) colorful?
You mean in this day when 12 year olds are making edited videos presenting stuff?
In general, athletes should be seen and not heard. Sad, but shown time and again. Often by some who have a job post career talking about sports.
It’s pretty embarassing in some sports when they go off script. Then also they get set up by interviewers to say something merely by answering a question. So, there’s really little in it for them to being really open.

But you’re off, in that these athletes have sponsors or are on teams with sponsors. Sponsors don’t really want them saying stupid stuff, controversial stuff. There’s really very little upside for them to do what you want. Which when you come down to it is what exactly?

Rock tours have been sponsored by companies like Anheiser Busch. It’s big money. ($15million in 1990!) You think the Rolling Stones are going to publicly talk crap about Budweiser? It’s not 1969.
And athletes aren’t rock musicians. They’re viewed in very different ways. Ask Bode Miller.
 

Tony S

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There’s really very little upside for them to do what you want. Which when you come down to it is what exactly?
Simple. I want them to say what they think, not what some sponsor told them to say.

I'm not saying there is an upside for them other than honoring their own integrity and honesty. But there is a huge upside for me as a fan.
 

Rudi Riet

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NBC's coverage of Killington was pretty lame, Peacock provides good video, so that's fine, but ... would be great if we could get more knowledgeable commentary.

FWIW: NBC's other go-to color commentator, Doug Lewis, was working for the LOC on-site at Killington alongside Peter Graves, who has called ski races for decades. Given Lewis has deep Vermont roots it's only natural for him to work for the organizers of the Killington Cup races.

Otherwise, he's typically working for NBC Sports covering World Cup alpine skiing, especially when there are two separate broadcasts for men's and women's races. You'll occasionally hear other former USST athletes in the commentary box, including Kaylin Richardson and Lindsay Vonn in recent years (and yes, NBC needs to make sure the women get a chance to do the commentary).

But this past weekend ended up being one of those cases where NBC Sports lucked into having Ligety on-site (as others said elsewhere, he attended a fundraiser on Saturday night at one of the access road après haunts) and Porino has covered every Killington Cup race on-site (he and I would often chat in the media center before and between runs when we were warming up from the biting cold that is the norm on Superstar). With Lewis otherwise occupied, Schlanger had to go it alone.

It's not fun, for sure. Schlanger fills a similar role once filled by other journeyman sports commentators like Al Trautwig, John Tesh, Bob Costas, and myriad others over the years. They are professionals who often have to turn on a dime to cover sports with which they may have little-to-no familiarity. And because their host networks put a ton of stock on having ex-professional athletes do the color commentary they can sometimes be left to DIY.

I'm sure USST has given NBC Sports and earful. The problem lies in that NBC Universal's pockets are deep when it comes to any sport that's an Olympic sport and they will outbid any who look to compete. Frankly I wish that the U.S. could have EuroSport do all the coverage of FIS events here in the U.S. They're already doing a lot of this in the UCI (bicycling) ecosystem through their partnership with GCN - though NBC has the contract with the Aumury Sports Organizaiton who run the Tour de France, Vuelta a España, Paris-Roubaix, and other big-time pro cycling events so even then U.S. viewers can't always win.
 

S.H.

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FWIW: NBC's other go-to color commentator, Doug Lewis, was working for the LOC on-site at Killington alongside Peter Graves, who has called ski races for decades. Given Lewis has deep Vermont roots it's only natural for him to work for the organizers of the Killington Cup races.

Otherwise, he's typically working for NBC Sports covering World Cup alpine skiing, especially when there are two separate broadcasts for men's and women's races. You'll occasionally hear other former USST athletes in the commentary box, including Kaylin Richardson and Lindsay Vonn in recent years (and yes, NBC needs to make sure the women get a chance to do the commentary).

But this past weekend ended up being one of those cases where NBC Sports lucked into having Ligety on-site (as others said elsewhere, he attended a fundraiser on Saturday night at one of the access road après haunts) and Porino has covered every Killington Cup race on-site (he and I would often chat in the media center before and between runs when we were warming up from the biting cold that is the norm on Superstar). With Lewis otherwise occupied, Schlanger had to go it alone.

It's not fun, for sure. Schlanger fills a similar role once filled by other journeyman sports commentators like Al Trautwig, John Tesh, Bob Costas, and myriad others over the years. They are professionals who often have to turn on a dime to cover sports with which they may have little-to-no familiarity. And because their host networks put a ton of stock on having ex-professional athletes do the color commentary they can sometimes be left to DIY.

I'm sure USST has given NBC Sports and earful. The problem lies in that NBC Universal's pockets are deep when it comes to any sport that's an Olympic sport and they will outbid any who look to compete. Frankly I wish that the U.S. could have EuroSport do all the coverage of FIS events here in the U.S. They're already doing a lot of this in the UCI (bicycling) ecosystem through their partnership with GCN - though NBC has the contract with the Aumury Sports Organizaiton who run the Tour de France, Vuelta a España, Paris-Roubaix, and other big-time pro cycling events so even then U.S. viewers can't always win.
Doug Lewis hasn't done much TV commentary in the last few years, usually relegated to commentating on LL when Porino was on-site at Killington/Beaver Creek.

But yeah. Tough break for Schlanger to be on his own for LL. Don't really blame him.
 

James

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I'm not saying there is an upside for them other than honoring their own integrity and honesty. But there is a huge upside for me as a fan.
Think about what exactly?
There is a fair amount of pre-race talk that doesn’t usually make it to broadcast.

You don’t follow twitter and instagram comments on cats and guitars?

Possibly a highly edited version of this could be broadcast-


Press conference -


Interview with Porino-
“Would you like a wcup where no one sees you train?”
-Yes.
 
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Tony S

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Think about what exactly?
There is a fair amount of pre-race talk that doesn’t usually make it to broadcast.

You don’t follow twitter and instagram comments on cats and guitars?

Possibly a highly edited version of this could be broadcast-


Press conference -


Interview with Porino-
“Would you like a wcup where no one sees you train?”
-Yes.
I failed to find the famous (?) quote that someone on Epic had as a signature. It was along the lines of "What, after hurtling down an ice covered mountain at 80 mph in a Lycra suit, on a three inch wide piece of fiberglass, you think he should limit himself to a lovely cup of tea?" In my memory I ascribe it to Bode or maybe David Feherty.

Meanwhile, this will do: https://slate.com/culture/2006/01/bode-miller-gets-a-raw-deal.html

In short, I am interested in honesty about the human experience, in all its messiness, even for top athletes.
 

4ster

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I failed to find the famous (?) quote that someone on Epic had as a signature. It was along the lines of "What, after hurtling down an ice covered mountain at 80 mph in a Lycra suit, on a three inch wide piece of fiberglass, you think he should limit himself to a lovely cup of tea?" In my memory I ascribe it to Bode or maybe David Feherty.
Lol, a blast from the past. That was my signature for a while on epic. It was David Feherty on Bode Miller after his infamous 60 minutes interview with Bob Costas.
 

migdriver

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Interesting topic. As one who has been on both sides of the camera ( as interviewer and interviewee) the results are highly dependent upon several things.
If it is a preproduced taped interview the person conducting the interview will usually have prepped and have several areas/ questions they feel are mandatory. Often the questions will be asked multiple times / phrased different ways hoping to elicit a fairly concise but interesting response which can be aired with minimum edits. It is not unusual for 30-45 minutes of tape to be shot to get 3-4 usable “ bites” for a 4 minute on air piece (package ). The skill / experience of the interviewer makes a big difference particularly when shooting someone who is by nature surly, guarded, or anxious to say “ the right things”.
Doing a live interview is hard: it takes skill to ask questions which you hope the viewer will find enlightening and that the person being interviewd will respond to with energy and candor all while with a producer talking in your ear …” 10 seconds”… “ wrap, wrap” “ hard out” etc. The best interviews occur when the interviewer actually LiSTENS to the responses from the subject and follows up based upon that rather than just chking off the pre planned boilerplate questions ( so what are your emotions right now ….. yuck!)
As for the person being interviewed: it’s not as easy as it might appear. A camera is stuck in your face ( you see your reflection in the lens and wonder , do I really look that bad?). And you’re trying hard to look and sound relaxed and the harder you try the more tense you look. I once , early in my tv life had an exec tell me “ I want you to work really hard at being relaxed” . Yeah, that worked really well. And trying to keep your responses focused and relevant, interesting ( without droning on ) and be candid at the same time is not easy. Despite years of working in TV interviewing others I was always nervous when I was the one being interviewed about my other careers/ area of expertise and worried about saying something I’d regret later.
T’aint easy … regardless which side of the camera you’re on.
I find Shiffrin does a very admirable job . Especially her ability to remain calm, collected and often thoughtful ; especially given she has v little time to come down from the emotional , draining/ stressful all out athletic performance … click out of her skis, and then have a camera and mic shoved in her face.
 

4ster

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In short, I am interested in honesty about the human experience, in all its messiness, even for top athletes
While on the topic of interviews & Bode here’s an honest & recent one…

In view of recent developments in these threads I am reluctant to post this one. lt’s been a while since I listened to it so I don’t remember all the subject matter (Mods feel free to delete if it seems inappropriate). What struck me was that the interviewee seemed so much more articulate & in control than the interviewer…

Maybe Feherty was commenting on this article when he made the quoted statement or vice versa. What always irked me was that Bode was made a villain for partying & 10 years earlier Tomba was given hero status for it. I’ve also read stories where the reality was that Tomba would go nap till midnight then go out & pretend like he’d been partying all night. :)
I remember parents of kids on our ski team being up in arms because their child’s hero had turned out to be so evil all from a miss quoted interview.
 

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