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Modern bindings for older skis

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Andrew Read

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Pulled the trigger on the Fischer R16s. Price was so good we ended up getting 3 pair. Looks like two will go on the Dynastar G9s and the Volkl P20RS Super. Fun part will be deciding what to put the third pair on. Might try digging out some garage sale skis and remounting them. Got a couple of choice pairs that could use a second chance on life.
20220824_130212.jpg

Because sometimes GS just isn't enough. You gotta go bigger...
 

François Pugh

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Pulled the trigger on the Fischer R16s. Price was so good we ended up getting 3 pair. Looks like two will go on the Dynastar G9s and the Volkl P20RS Super. Fun part will be deciding what to put the third pair on. Might try digging out some garage sale skis and remounting them. Got a couple of choice pairs that could use a second chance on life.
View attachment 177189
Because sometimes GS just isn't enough. You gotta go bigger...
Are those Tyrolia bindings metal or Delrin?
 
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Andrew Read

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Are those Tyrolia bindings metal or Delrin?
I'd have to dig them out and check. The biggest problem is they're 2 sizes too small. If we ever wanted to ski them we'd have to at least move the toe.
I've heard some good things refurbishing old metal bindings. I just don't know nearly enough about which models from which brands from which years are worthwhile. 100$ for peace of mind and not having to grease all those little parts seems worth it.

The white and red bindings do match pretty well; might have to keep them. Got some powder blue Lange boots to match and I'll be turning heads all day.
 

James

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@James It looks like your heel is down tight. The brakes should come up higher than that. Mine do. I was told once to tighten the forward pressure until the boot heel is fully on the brake pad and the brakes retract never mind too much about the tab position at the back.
Interesting. Pretty sure those were setup for a 317mm boot and that one is 315mm.
I haven’t skied those in several years. Taking that photo I saw how I kind of trashed them last time. That was a surprise.

It was at Stowe with Josh, and we skied some “soft closed” trails with some new heavy snow. Straight skis were terrible in the low pitch sections.
 
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Andrew Read

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Slight issue with the bindings. Took the K2s and the Pivots to get professionally mounted and they didn't want to touch them. Tech said the ski was just too narrow and that the bindings weren't gonna work. He even pulled out some Marker race bindings and still wasn't satisfied. Screws were just too close to the edge and I think it's just wood underneath. Now I gotta decide what to do next.

1) The bindings are fine and the tech is just a coward. A lot of other vintage skis have mounting screws pretty close to the edge and they work fine. Maybe he's just not used to that.

2) Find even more narrow bindings. The Pivot 14 with 75mm brake was one of the narrowest new production bindings I could find. Perhaps I could find narrower. That's doubtful though.

3) Get a commercial race plate with a narrow mounting pattern. Then I'll probably have to get race bindings however. That's getting expensive for what is supposed to be a fun vintage ski.

4) My favorite option so far; homemade race place. It seems all modern race plates are setup for system bindings, but my Dynastar G9s come with just a flat undrilled metal race plate. If I could find one of those I could mount whatever bindings I want to it. Which leads me to my hack fix. Has anybody ever made their own race plate? It seems like I could just buy some 3/8'' 7075 aluminum plate and mount that to the ski. It might look kind of stupid, but it just has to be safe and work.

Let me know if anybody has any other ideas, or if you know where to find flat undrilled race plates. Here's some more pictures to give you an idea. These things are comically sized by today's standards. 204 length with like 61mm underfoot. They taper a bit on top so there's even less width for mounting.

20221101_102741.jpg 20221101_110950.jpg 20221030_082907.jpg
 

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Slight issue with the bindings. Took the K2s and the Pivots to get professionally mounted and they didn't want to touch them. Tech said the ski was just too narrow and that the bindings weren't gonna work.
The Pivot uses the same mounting pattern going back to the 1980's. I suggest you find a ski shop, verses maybe someplace with a ski department and find the tech that has the most gray and least amount of tattoos.
 
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Andrew Read

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The Pivot uses the same mounting pattern going back to the 1980's. I suggest you find a ski shop, verses maybe someplace with a ski department and find the tech that has the most gray and least amount of tattoos.
The shop has been around since at least the 80s, Viking Ski in Chicago. Funny enough these skis were originally purchased from them back in 96. They also wanted 100$ to mount them which is a ripoff, but you would think they'd be experts at that price. I was leaving anyway just because of that.
Tech also looked 40, but I didn't get the O.G. tech with the branded ski vest and killer white mustache.
 

cantunamunch

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4) My favorite option so far; homemade race place. It seems all modern race plates are setup for system bindings, but my Dynastar G9s come with just a flat undrilled metal race plate. If I could find one of those I could mount whatever bindings I want to it. Which leads me to my hack fix. Has anybody ever made their own race plate? It seems like I could just buy some 3/8'' 7075 aluminum plate and mount that to the ski. It might look kind of stupid, but it just has to be safe and work.

It's even easier if you use separate toe and heel sections.

Instead of a single piece plate like you have on the G9s, make a toepiece and a heelpiece plate for each ski - then you don't have to put in slider hat screws.

BTW that speckled base looks very much like it belongs to an Elan cap ski.
 

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Also, that Volant does not need any plate whatsoever, the entire topsheet is steel and effectively constitutes a race plate.

You can go as close to the edge as you like for a screw to hold. Use a *sharp* hardened bit.

Do observe that the center section has a polymer spacer - that is simply there so that the drill bit doesn't go all the way through the thickness of the ski at the standard 9mm depth. Yes, the ski was designed thinner than standard binding screw stickout.

If your binding is too big to fit on the spacer, simply cut a new, broader spacer out of a convenient piece of plastic and replace the stock one. No 7075 needed.
 
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Andrew Read

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It sounds relatively easy. Cut up some roughly 3'' x 6'' aluminum strips. Drill and tap 4 holes for binding, 4 for mounting to the ski. Would need some different screws but It's like 30$ max in materials. Way less if I can find some offcuts for the aluminum.

Gonna get a second opinion if it's really necessary to do that. The oldschool ski shop by me finally opened for the season so maybe they have an answer.
BTW that speckled base looks very much like it belongs to an Elan cap ski.
Looks pretty cool but black and transparent white makes it REALLY hard to check for scrapes and gouges.
 

cantunamunch

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Looks pretty cool but black and transparent white makes it REALLY hard to check for scrapes and gouges.

The green and black speckle and the yellow and black speckle were even worse. I don't think I ever had any of the blue speckled ones.

Gonna get a second opinion if it's really necessary to do that. The oldschool ski shop by me finally opened for the season so maybe they have an answer.

Sure.

My big concern would be dry rot in the wood core esp. on skis I haven't stored myself. But that doesn't address your question one way or the other.
 
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Andrew Read

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My big concern would be dry rot in the wood core esp. on skis I haven't stored myself. But that doesn't address your question one way or the other.
My dad is the original owner on those. Have been stored in a dry temp controlled basement for the past 25 years so I'm not too worried. That is a good point though.

You can probably guess why they were never mounted when I tell you they were closeout '96-97 skis and I was born in '98.
 

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The shop has been around since at least the 80s, Viking Ski in Chicago. Funny enough these skis were originally purchased from them back in 96. They also wanted 100$ to mount them which is a ripoff, but you would think they'd be experts at that price. I was leaving anyway just because of that.
Tech also looked 40, but I didn't get the O.G. tech with the branded ski vest and killer white mustache.
This is the stuff that pisses me off. There is not a binding today that will not work on a traditional ski. How wide are race skis underfoot? About 65mm. Mogul skis? About 65mm. Go to any mogul competition, 95% have Pivots on them, the other 5% probably a Royal binding.

Here is my Pivot jig, it is from before the turn of the century it was for narrow skis ... I had to make adapters so I can use it for wide skis.
IMG_0085.jpeg

I hate when a shop looks for a reason not to help a customer verses helping them.

If you go back to this shop, show them this discussion.
 

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Also, that Volant does not need any plate whatsoever, the entire topsheet is steel and effectively constitutes a race plate.
That is not entirely correct. Without a plate Volants are too thin to accommodate most adult screws and can dimple the base. The reason Volants DO have the black spacer plate is to create enough distance from the base.
 

cantunamunch

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That is not entirely correct. Without a plate Volants are too thin to accommodate most adult screws and can dimple the base. The reason Volants DO have the black spacer plate is to create enough distance from the base.

Or, in different words :) :

Do observe that the center section has a polymer spacer - that is simply there so that the drill bit doesn't go all the way through the thickness of the ski at the standard 9mm depth. Yes, the ski was designed thinner than standard binding screw stickout.

If your binding is too big to fit on the spacer, simply cut a new, broader spacer out of a convenient piece of plastic and replace the stock one. No 7075 needed.
 
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Andrew Read

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This is the stuff that pisses me off. There is not a binding today that will not work on a traditional ski.
The funny thing is I compared the bolt spacing of my new bindings to a pair of NOS Marker race bindings I have from the 80s and they have just as wide of a bolt pattern. Not sure what year exactly but they're stamped West Germany so that narrows it down. That binding would have surely fit any ski of that era
 

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This is the stuff that pisses me off. There is not a binding today that will not work on a traditional ski. How wide are race skis underfoot? About 65mm. Mogul skis? About 65mm. Go to any mogul competition, 95% have Pivots on them, the other 5% probably a Royal binding.

Here is my Pivot jig, it is from before the turn of the century it was for narrow skis ... I had to make adapters so I can use it for wide skis.
View attachment 181966
I hate when a shop looks for a reason not to help a customer verses helping them.

If you go back to this shop, show them this discussion.

Yup! and since the OP is fitting Tyrolia R16s , they have had the SAME hole footprint since approximately early 90s if not before
 
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Andrew Read

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I can't say I remember what those Volants look like or if they're worth skiing. I've got two or three pairs lying around but you guys know how it is. You buy them for 10$ from a garage sale because they're okay, but you never get around to using them because you have better skis.

I'm thinking I'm gonna try the homemade lifter plate approach regardless. The extra height would definitely be worth it for such a narrow ski.
 

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This reminds me of when I worked in a shop, and that ‘oh no’ feeling when I saw the flash of Volants coming in. We did help the customer, but in the back there was little negotiation among us on who has to deal with the Volants
 

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