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The Never-Ending Moment Skis Discussion

anders_nor

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Will never forget one of the first times I had my Bibby’s skiing fast over thick, heavy afternoon crud in the Spring where everyone else was struggling in it and many going home just after lunch. There was a 1hr period near the end of the afternoon that I was the only person going up and down the hill on one lift!

I used them again the next day and I had people asking about them and was telling a group that “I was giggling through the crud yesterday afternoon with them”. One woman says to me “I was here yesterday till about noon when I went home as it was too hard to ski. I WAS NOT giggling!”
scored a set of 190 bibby pro locally yesterday, to compliment my 184 blister pro which are to short for me in reality, GF and a buddy kinda has been shareing the 184 and loving them. Loaning out skis gets me ski friends and people actually bother showing up for skiiing, and then get hooked as they see what good skis and some education on techqnique can do.

for afternooncrud slush/crud whatever, no 77 ski is going to be wow. I remember spring skiiing my fis GS, they are so fun for mornings high up on the mountain with 0 traffic and still ice ish, but afternoon aproached, and I was heading down lower in mountain for a ski swap, holy shit that was horrible to go through even the blues and greens with piles of shit on thoose long stiff planks. grabbed older mantras in the car, and just lolled the rest of the day KILLING the piles.

honestly skiiing over other peoples tracks or piles doesnt bother me on the right skis, unless its 100% refrozen, actualy I kinda enjoy it, with my weight I have some umph and dont get knocked around that much. But best style award goes to a female friend, she has insane finesse on thoose heavy wet piles and just zigzags between them, I think I have a video of her doing it somehwere from last year. I kinda use less finesse and more weight/speed, just jumping from pile to pile in a straighter line, which frustratres her ;) She also kills me for tight tree skiiing... For piles/crud/heavy snow I prefer a bit further back mounting on ski and just let my shins load up the boot for going through without much finesse.


conditions here has changed and its +3c, + rain + fog, going to wait for "sun" to go down and artificial light go on so we might see.. something (100% flat light now) , then ski the local hill, jumping the piles.
 

ski otter 2

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scored a set of 190 bibby pro locally yesterday, to compliment my 184 blister pro which are to short for me in reality, GF and a buddy kinda has been shareing the 184 and loving them. Loaning out skis gets me ski friends and people actually bother showing up for skiiing, and then get hooked as they see what good skis and some education on techqnique can do.

for afternooncrud slush/crud whatever, no 77 ski is going to be wow. I remember spring skiiing my fis GS, they are so fun for mornings high up on the mountain with 0 traffic and still ice ish, but afternoon aproached, and I was heading down lower in mountain for a ski swap, holy shit that was horrible to go through even the blues and greens with piles of shit on thoose long stiff planks. grabbed older mantras in the car, and just lolled the rest of the day KILLING the piles.

honestly skiiing over other peoples tracks or piles doesnt bother me on the right skis, unless its 100% refrozen, actualy I kinda enjoy it, with my weight I have some umph and dont get knocked around that much. But best style award goes to a female friend, she has insane finesse on thoose heavy wet piles and just zigzags between them, I think I have a video of her doing it somehwere from last year. I kinda use less finesse and more weight/speed, just jumping from pile to pile in a straighter line, which frustratres her ;) She also kills me for tight tree skiiing... For piles/crud/heavy snow I prefer a bit further back mounting on ski and just let my shins load up the boot for going through without much finesse.


conditions here has changed and its +3c, + rain + fog, going to wait for "sun" to go down and artificial light go on so we might see.. something (100% flat light now) , then ski the local hill, jumping the piles.
I'm only 150/5'10", but on the right skis/right length, what you describe in spring crud is what I do also: go right at the biggest piles - like they were patches of powder.
 

cantunamunch

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I'm only 150/5'10", but on the right skis/right length, what you describe in spring crud is what I do also: go right at the biggest piles - like they were patches of powder.

I'm reading his comment with the qualifier that he's in Norway on maritime snow, likely a lot heavier than CO snow - any 77s that are soft enough to be edgeable on frozen ice are going to be too soft for crudbusting in heavy wet piles.
 

Ron

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Moment Wildcat 108, 184 Mounted -7mm from factory (-6.7cm) on Warden 13's. Skied at Steamboat. Boot to mid-thigh fresh. Wind affected.

I got up on the mountain this AM and found some really good testing grounds for the Moment Wildcat 108; boot to mid-thigh light snow, Lots of face shots. Visibility was really tough, low clouds, 20mph winds and heavy snow. In the deep, the 184 Wildcat 108's are super fun, they were really agile, quick and flickable. I loved them here, you could feel the stiffness in the fore-body but the tips absorb and flex well and the tail felt perfect supporting me well when finishing turns on the steeper terrain, I honestly didn't even notice the tail which to me means its doing its job. They are really easy for fun slash turns, hanging your tails in the pow. Its not a super damp ski but has a good feel with a lot of energy and pop. Although its not a light weight touring ski, it skis quite light and easy. Skiing down from the top of the Ridge off the top of the Morningside chair, it's fairly steep with lots of small evergreens, rocks and wind loaded swales. It was white out conditions, only allowing very limited preception of what I was skiing into. I was skiing in giant wind loaded lips, and pockets that were breaking on my thighs and then your feet would drop out from beneath you landing on wind-scoured, primary surface snow all in a few feet. It was a lot of fun and the Wildcat really does a fantastic job here. The ski was dependable and made these conditions manageable. On abrupt drops and hitting wind lips straight on, the ski did and outstanding job of keeping things calm and not jolting me off balance.

I don't jump off anything more than 3-4' but love to pop off small features like snow-covered trees, downed trees and small rocks and the ski is very stable and even if you were a little back, it was easy to recover and pull the ski back under you. On the steeper faces, the ski pivoted very well, it doesn't pivot as quick as the Dynastar M-free 108 but I prefer how this ski responds to input, I like that it wasn't too "turny", meaning that when you pivot on the steeps in tight slots, you really just want it to rotate 180* and stop; some skis want to keep rotating. The Wildcats are are plenty "surfy" though and you can ski it loose or more traditional, its quite amenable to either style. I attribute these traits to the Wildcats tapered tips and tails. The design isn't as dramatic as some, and the widest part of the skis (contact points) are located more towards the tops of the tips/tails which makes it a little less eager to pivot but the longer rocker profile and lightness makes the ski pivot just fine in tight trees. Here's where a factory mount (-6) would make the ski pivot a little quicker. There's a section at the top of Morningside (bowl) where there's a small knoll and drops off significantly on the backside. Because of where/how its positioned, the snow loads at the top and on the backside, when I skied up on it and dropped in, the snow literally was at my crotch, the skis stiffer body just went through the snow and at the bottom where there is a small compression, it flexed very well and I flowed through. Not all powder skis do this, those will softer tips will flex too much. Skiing some lower angle pow through small evergreens and undulating terrain was pure joy, the ski's playful side showed though and I was zipping around making quick, abrupt direction changes, riding luge sections between trees, popping off little features. Redirecting the skis in the air was effortless. This is where I think I enjoyed the Wildcat 108's the most. The ski responds to input very well and is smooth in the powder. Float is excellent. You could bury the tips but they never submarined or got bogged down.

The Mount point of -6.7cm is about right for me, a full CM might be perfect though. UPDATED THOUGHTS. With the ski's properly tuned, I am very happy with the mount location. its still super quick and responsive but I never felt the tips were too short or I was "feeling" them when driving the ski on edge. I never felt I needed more out front.

To Summarize, The 184 Wildcat 108 is a really fun, nimble and solid ski that can be skied loose or more traditional in powder. The Wildcats have a nice blend of traits that favor deeper powder and playful terrain. It truly lives up to what Moment calls their "Playful Charger". I will update this review once the ski's have been tuned and I get them back on the snow

DAY 2: I had the skis tuned by EdgeWerks located on the mountain by the Grand. They totally transformed the Wildcats! I didn't even detune the ski, they skied so perfectly. We woke up to 4-5" of really light powder. A "good enough" day to test the Moment a little more and to see how it would handle more open and firm-base skiing. With the ski now skiing as it should, I loved this ski even more. I started out on the Ridge area again, steeper faces, large bumps and small trees. The ski handles this terrain remarkably well. The Wildcat is a solid ski and I really appreciated the ability to push the tips into the bumps and swales and have it support me well. Its also solid underfoot so I trusted this ski when pushing it. So, I knew I loved this ski in powder and tight places but what I was truly blown away by how amazing this ski is on open terrain, I popped out of the trees onto the lower 1/3 of Buddys, a blue run with a nice pitch with untracked and broken 5". The Wildcat eats this terrain up! Put it on edge and it will blast through the snow like it's fresh snow with an uncanny calmness and stability. The Wildcat is easy to ski here. On broken and skied out fields, I have never skied so fast with total confidence. The ski remains composed and quiet and releasing the edges in the transition is smooth and confidence inspiring. You just need to shift your weight to the new downhill ski and move your mass into the new turn and the ski does the rest.

DAY 3. Just skied the Moment Wildcat 108's in champagne powder Knee deep and up to the crotch. The trees were totally loaded and untracked. I have never skied the trees with such ease and total confidence in a ski. I was skiing much faster but with more control through tight aspens. Skiing on the groomers with broken and piled snow was a blast. It is so stable and capable. I could either run them flat or put them on edge and rip. My friend skiing with me said he couldn't begin to keep up with me. The Wildcat 108 takes my award for absolute best powder and tree ski.

For a 108 wide ski, the Wildcat is easy to get on edge and it arc'd far better than I expected. I was very confident carving on the groomers, It carved very well, arcing smoothly and calmly and even with the heavily rockered tail, theres enough there to support you through the turn. It's quite quick and snappy here and I really had a lot of fun mixing up turn shapes; hitting patch of untracked, then arcing over for a few turns on edge and hitting some pockets of fresh along the edges and then hitting a few powder bumps on my way to the lift. This was not "surviving" like you do on some powder ski's, this was all about fun. The -6.7 mount point never felt short and I never once wished for more out front. The Wildcat 108 is just a lot of fun. So I can understand the excitement and enthusiasm around this ski (and Im sure other Moments) and add myself to the fan club.

Can you say Wind loaded and flat light? I enhanced this pic to show some detail and its below the cloud line LOL. (day 1)
E563CB43-4989-497C-B9D7-71A7A2C77402_1_201_a.jpeg
A3AA30CB-0EE6-44C1-AA49-EC63FC483FA5_1_201_a.jpeg


From 2/25

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DAY 3

68F93E6F-9728-49A2-B736-3B25089EC0FE_4_5005_c.jpeg


3DB8715D-372A-4439-A79D-C5E1B6C0120E_1_201_a.jpeg
 
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GregK

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@Ron Those conditions look awesome! Glad you’re liking the skis!
I’m sure a stone grind, edge bevel reset at 1/1 with them smoothed down to contact point will transform them and the mount 3mm concern will be gone.
 
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Ron

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@Ron Those conditions look awesome! Glad you’re liking the skis!
I’m sure a stone grind, edge bevel reset at 1/1 with them smoothed down to contact point will transform them and the mount 3mm concern will be gone.

yeah, thats EXACTLY what I am having done to them! 1/1 and the bases flattened. it was disappointing to say the least. I called the tech and asked, the answer was "well I ran them across the belt a couple of times but..." I wont move the mount until I ski them again. We are supposed to get a few inches Wednesday.

I always detune a powder ski to below the contact points and just leave the area just above and below the toe/heel. there's no need for anything sharp :thumb:
 

Flo

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@Ron Wow, these conditions looks perfect! Is it the wider skis in your quiver? I hesitated between those, the Rustler 11 and OG Wildcat and ended up the the OG Wildcat as "leftover and new snow skis". What do you mean by smooth down to contact point? You use a gummy stone at 45° with some force? My wife is an intermediate skier and found her Icelantic Maiden 91 harder to turn (squid) since we had them tune at 1/2. I will try to use a gummy stone between the tip/tail and the contact point.
 
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Ron

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well, yes, its a gummy stone but the angle doesn't have to be precise. if you skis are grabbing its usually due to the edges being slightly higher than the bases, this is called, Railed. I would have a tuning shop check the bases to be Sure they are flat. a. 1:2 should be easy to turn on.
 
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ski otter 2

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I'm reading his comment with the qualifier that he's in Norway on maritime snow, likely a lot heavier than CO snow - any 77s that are soft enough to be edgeable on frozen ice are going to be too soft for crudbusting in heavy wet piles.
Usually your posts are spot on, but.....
It's spring slush, not Colo powder. Heavy spring slush is heavy spring slush anywhere. He's using, in this case, "older Mantras", not a 77 ski. He began with his 184 Blister Pros/Bibby pros being too short for him but great for his "GF and a Buddy," but that's not the ski he's using in the afternoon uneven slush, near as I can tell. All similar to my spring slush situation: In my case, I own and find great both the Bibby Pros in 184 & 190, but in deep and not so deep, mounded up afternoon spring slush I've been using V-Werks Mantras 178, incredible; Rossi Sickles 183(?), incredible also; Laser AX 183s, wow; Rossi FIS SL 165s, incredible again; Atomic double deck FIS SL 158s, holy moly; 186 Mindbender 99s, fantastic. (I'm sure there are many other skis and lengths also.) By afternoon on those slush days, almost all other skiers have given up - too rough on softer flexing skis, and I have those slopes mostly to myself & friends, like ducks on a lake in a blizzard. And I'm often using the same skis that were great for edging on refrozen groomers at first chair. (Though sometimes I'll use GS skis then, and switch out just as he did to one of the other pairs I mentioned. )
 
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GregK

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@Flo Have you checked that her edge bevels(especially base bevels) are consistent at 1/2 along the whole ski? Most place are using auto fed machines that are doing the edges and there may be spots along the ski that are not at 1/2.
Also as @Ron mentioned as he’s having this issue, check that the bases are flat. Bases that are higher near the edges will make things harder to turn.

On ANY ski, always smooth with a file, then diamond stone(gummy works but takes WAY too long) on about an angle (above and below 45 degrees) the area above the widest taper point on the tip and tail. This will help with top sheet chipping in moguls, will be less catching in crud and has no effect on grip as it’s above any effective edge.

On most Indy ski companies like Moment, ON3P, Praxis and I wouldn’t doubt Icelantic skis, you round the tips and tails starting at the contact point, not the widest taper point. Lie the skis on the floor with brakes up and mark the contact point with pieces of tape so it’s easier to spot when you are tuning on a bench. Know these skis can be pretty catchy when the tips/tails aren’t rounded. Have my Wildcats sharp underfoot at 1/2(factory is 1/1 like Icelantic) and rounded above contact points and they are perfect.
 

ScottB

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@GregK,

Have you been skiing your new 190cm Blister Wildcats (the "improved" ones) this year and have you posted about what this years changes have done for the ski?
 
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GregK

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@GregK,

Have you been skiing your new 190cm Blister Wildcats (the "improved" ones) this year and have you posted about what this years changes have done for the ski?

No, I haven’t posted about them yet as it’s personal so please respect my privacy at this time.......:roflmao:

I’ve been in a 7 week Covid lockdown here in Ontario, Canada so last Tuesday the 16th was the first day the hills have been open again. Luckily opening day had about 12” overnight and about 4” during the day so the new Wildcats were out!

The snow was fairly heavy and the wind against you going downhill combined with only a bit over 700’ vertical meant it was tough going even for those with powder skis as you couldn’t get enough speed to start floating near the surface.
That being said, I was able to ski faster with less effort than most that day with many giving up around noon.

I went from 184cm Bibbys to the 190cm Wildcats and feel it was just as easy, if not easier to swing them around in the glades and tighter spots due to the semi-cap tip/tails which shed some weight. Float is supposed to be a bit better with the lighter tips/tails but with the wind/speed issues the hill had that day it was hard to tell.
Glide seemed a bit better too with the new base material as it was just as fast as all my other skis that have them.

The feel over crud and variable terrain seemed pretty similar to the Bibby’s which was a complaint of the previous Wildcats with the lighter wood core.

Overall, very happy with them and think they will get a decent amount of use this year even back home. The normal mid-day grooming done at local hills to combat after afternoon crud and reset them for night skiing won’t be done this year due to Covid and the Wildcats LOVE afternoon crud!

This are the only skis I’ve gotten in the last 30 that didn’t NEED a stone grind to get flat as they were pretty good but after waxing a few times I notice a couple low spots on the ski that the plastic scrapper has trouble accessing. Might get a few passes on the stone and get them perfect and maybe that will further improve them. Easy $20 fix.
ECF18E2D-2206-4C1B-BA11-71974336AC6C.jpeg
AE46DE3A-53AC-40A5-9D35-6EA8B80F70E7.jpeg


05D756C8-45D0-4DF6-8176-8DD2913E138A.jpeg
 

Flo

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@Flo Have you checked that her edge bevels(especially base bevels) are consistent at 1/2 along the whole ski? Most place are using auto fed machines that are doing the edges and there may be spots along the ski that are not at 1/2.
Also as @Ron mentioned as he’s having this issue, check that the bases are flat. Bases that are higher near the edges will make things harder to turn.

On ANY ski, always smooth with a file, then diamond stone(gummy works but takes WAY too long) on about an angle (above and below 45 degrees) the area above the widest taper point on the tip and tail. This will help with top sheet chipping in moguls, will be less catching in crud and has no effect on grip as it’s above any effective edge.

On most Indy ski companies like Moment, ON3P, Praxis and I wouldn’t doubt Icelantic skis, you round the tips and tails starting at the contact point, not the widest taper point. Lie the skis on the floor with brakes up and mark the contact point with pieces of tape so it’s easier to spot when you are tuning on a bench. Know these skis can be pretty catchy when the tips/tails aren’t rounded. Have my Wildcats sharp underfoot at 1/2(factory is 1/1 like Icelantic) and rounded above contact points and they are perfect.
They were freshly prepared from Starthaus and were sharp from tip to tail. We have the same bsl so I tried them and they were fine to me. However, she is not as aggressive as I am and 50 lbs lighter... The Maiden 91 are twintips so I used a gummy stone to detune the tip and tail from the contact point (decambered) and she find them easier to pivot now.
 

Ken_R

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No, I haven’t posted about them yet as it’s personal so please respect my privacy at this time.......:roflmao:

I’ve been in a 7 week Covid lockdown here in Ontario, Canada so last Tuesday the 16th was the first day the hills have been open again. Luckily opening day had about 12” overnight and about 4” during the day so the new Wildcats were out!

The snow was fairly heavy and the wind against you going downhill combined with only a bit over 700’ vertical meant it was tough going even for those with powder skis as you couldn’t get enough speed to start floating near the surface.
That being said, I was able to ski faster with less effort than most that day with many giving up around noon.

I went from 184cm Bibbys to the 190cm Wildcats and feel it was just as easy, if not easier to swing them around in the glades and tighter spots due to the semi-cap tip/tails which shed some weight. Float is supposed to be a bit better with the lighter tips/tails but with the wind/speed issues the hill had that day it was hard to tell.
Glide seemed a bit better too with the new base material as it was just as fast as all my other skis that have them.

The feel over crud and variable terrain seemed pretty similar to the Bibby’s which was a complaint of the previous Wildcats with the lighter wood core.

Overall, very happy with them and think they will get a decent amount of use this year even back home. The normal mid-day grooming done at local hills to combat after afternoon crud and reset them for night skiing won’t be done this year due to Covid and the Wildcats LOVE afternoon crud!

This are the only skis I’ve gotten in the last 30 that didn’t NEED a stone grind to get flat as they were pretty good but after waxing a few times I notice a couple low spots on the ski that the plastic scrapper has trouble accessing. Might get a few passes on the stone and get them perfect and maybe that will further improve them. Easy $20 fix. View attachment 125366 View attachment 125368

View attachment 125367

That lift is empty, wow
 
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GregK

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That lift is empty, wow

On the lift just after they let people on the lifts 30 mins before their scheduled 9am opening. Was dead for the first 30 mins maybe and then everyone and their brother showed up! Christmas weekend busy all of last week at Blue Mountain.

Pic of about 40% of a lift line a few hours later as there is a whole other side to this line and I’m not even at the back on this side!


71F777F4-11B9-4B5E-B6B0-8B8E2EFC5D41.jpeg
 
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Ken_R

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On the lift just after they let people on the lifts 30 mins before their scheduled 9am opening. Was dead for the first 30 mins maybe and then everyone and their brother showed uChristmas weekend busy all of last week at Blue Mountain.

Pic of about 40% of a lift line a few hours later as there is a whole other side to this line and I’m not even at the back on this side!


View attachment 125478


:geek::geek::geek::geek::geek::geek::geek::geek:
 
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