• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

mostly wine stuff

mdf

entering the Big Couloir
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
7,114
Location
Boston Suburbs
They are terrible, horrible, stupid laws which limit your power as a consumer and should be completely and finally discarded once and for all.
We had a situation here in Massachusetts where craft breweries were not allowed to fire their distributors. There was a new law to allow it, with reimbursement for marketing and inventory costs determined by arbitration. But the new law was thrown out in court .. don't know the latest status.

I always thought the mandatory distributor tier was set up to give the bootleggers a home at the end of prohibition.
 

locknload

Out on the slopes
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Feb 3, 2016
Posts
1,536
Location
Carlsbad
Yes. Price fixing is illegal. Which doesn't stop it from happening. NY even has a bizarrely complicated legal scheme of setting minimum pricing, but Costco can't even sell wine there anyway.

But, again, if a supplier or distributor tried to tell Costco what they should sell for, they would probably get laughed out of the room. BTW, I have no idea if 13.9% holds for alcohol pricing. But I do know their markups are very modest.

But boutique is hardly the way I look at it. Pretty much everything there is very large volume. You will find some occasional local gems, especially in Northern California. But the vast majority of what is available there is mass produced. Which doesn't mean it is bad necessarily. Most of what I call "boutique" producers just aren't big enough to get a call back from a Costco buyer.

EDIT: I want to emphasize that Costco is mostly dealing with suppliers rather than distributors. Obviously the distributor, due to our stupid and corrupt laws around "states' rights" has to make it happen. And many, many shops are at the mercy of distributors. But they just can't tell costco what to do. If you want to move thousands of cases, even tens of thousands of cases per state, the distributor isn't going to hold you hostage. There is someone else ready to play. Even in the states with few large distributors. Many of the big states have "self-serve" distributors who are merely paper pushers and shipping facilitators. They are terrible, horrible, stupid laws which limit your power as a consumer and should be completely and finally discarded once and for all.
My neighbor is a food exec who deals with Costco quite a bit. 13.9 is the number and so he swears buy buying your booze there IF they have wha you want. Obviously, as you suggest, a more boutique store will have smaller labels and some less mainstream stuff. I don't mean to suggest that Costco is boutique in any way...just they've done a good job at our Costco making the wine section feel that way. Are the states rules related to alcohol distribution similar to the same nonsense that prevents car manufacturers from selling direct to consumer in many states? I know its not a perfect analogy, but the same stupid logic that harms consumers and limits choice?
 
Thread Starter
TS
Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,344
Location
Maine
Coming back to the bigger topic of pricing in a minute. Meanwhile I needed to share that I opened a bottle of Côtes du Rhône the other night and was really surprised to see this classified Bordeaux length cork in it. Huge, by everyday wine standards.

(An old boss, from the 80s, used to make fun of what he saw as absurd and pretentious prices by saying something along the lines of, "Angelo Gaja, always happy to tell you about the size of his cork." I guess the joke is on us, in the end.)

1000000303-01.jpeg
 

skibob

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Posts
4,251
Location
Santa Rosa Fire Belt
My neighbor is a food exec who deals with Costco quite a bit. 13.9 is the number and so he swears buy buying your booze there IF they have wha you want. Obviously, as you suggest, a more boutique store will have smaller labels and some less mainstream stuff. I don't mean to suggest that Costco is boutique in any way...just they've done a good job at our Costco making the wine section feel that way. Are the states rules related to alcohol distribution similar to the same nonsense that prevents car manufacturers from selling direct to consumer in many states? I know its not a perfect analogy, but the same stupid logic that harms consumers and limits choice?
Much worse. Because every state has different laws. And the third tier is mandatory. As has been mentioned here, it was a concession to the mob when they legalized alcohol again in 1932. The mob didn't want it because illegal booze was very good for the mafia and other organized crime. So they just turned their illegal businesses into "legal" businesses overnight.
 

Mendieta

Master of Snowplow
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
4,844
Location
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Worst wine of 2023. OMG.

The nose, I swear it doesn't have any wine aromas. The flavor is hard to describe. Not an obviously corked wine. The cork looks fine. It's just bad enough that the whole bottle wound up down the drain. I am not cooking with that crap.

PXL_20231126_050425279.jpg
 
Thread Starter
TS
Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,344
Location
Maine
^^^
Never mind its good reputation, I have never had good luck with Jadot negociant wines. I avoid. (High end domaine bottlings may be a different story. I'm not the kind of person who would know.)
 

Mendieta

Master of Snowplow
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
4,844
Location
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
How old ?

If I remember correctly, the reason I moved away from Beaujolais was a Jadot...

Ah, that didn't make it in the picture - this is the 2022. I believe generic Beaujolais is meant to be drank very young (age was not an issue here)

^^^
Never mind its good reputation, I have never had good luck with Jadot negociant wines. I avoid. (High end domaine bottlings may be a different story. I'm not the kind of person who would know.)

Oh yeah, I didn't even look for it. It just happened that I don't keep Beaujolais, and they only had this bottle at the groceries when I was buying the fresh turkey, so I wanted a backup bottle. Next day I got the lovely Morgon I shared earlier in this thread. Yesterday I wanted to see how much better it was than the Jadot :doh:

I always thought of Jadot as a mass producer and I was expecting what you find in inexpensive generic Rhones a lot of the time. Something thin, boring but drinkable. Oh well, this was more of a PSA for the occasional person reading this thread from a Google search ...

1701017786865.png
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JCF

Mendieta

Master of Snowplow
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
4,844
Location
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Any chance it was heat damage like upthread?

I guess that could be it. I did a little Googling after seeing your comment. It seems like two things tend to happen under heat damage: oxidation if the bottle expands faster than the cork, or "cooking", where it becomes sweeter and more sour. None of these things happened to this one. It did have a very, very slight carbonation, I thought. So, I guess there is a chance that in the mass production process something went wrong and some of the bottles had secondary fermentation in the bottle.

The corked looked and smelled fine.
 

skibob

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Posts
4,251
Location
Santa Rosa Fire Belt
^^^
Never mind its good reputation, I have never had good luck with Jadot negociant wines. I avoid. (High end domaine bottlings may be a different story. I'm not the kind of person who would know.)
Agree. I think they definitely do a respectible job typically, but of the big French producers the only one I really trust anymore is Perrin.
 

skibob

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Posts
4,251
Location
Santa Rosa Fire Belt
I guess that could be it. I did a little Googling after seeing your comment. It seems like two things tend to happen under heat damage: oxidation if the bottle expands faster than the cork, or "cooking", where it becomes sweeter and more sour. None of these things happened to this one. It did have a very, very slight carbonation, I thought. So, I guess there is a chance that in the mass production process something went wrong and some of the bottles had secondary fermentation in the bottle.

The corked looked and smelled fine.
Beaujolais is made by a process called carbonic maceration. The grapes are held at first whole before being crushed. Fermentation starts in each berry. It is considered to enhance the fruit-forward character of the gamay grape. Nouveau is well known for high CO2--almost frizzante sometimes. A young Beaujolais will still show some of that character even if not Nouveau. Fruit forward wines in general are bottled with more CO2 (which enhances the perception of fruitiness). I personally think CO2 should be more carefully managed than this and should never give the sensation of bubbles you are describing, but this isn't uncommon in young Beaujolais. French consumers are probably accustomed to it and would be concerned that the wine was "old" and "flat" if it didn't have that. But it is an area where I diverge from French palates.

The problem might simply be Jadot. I haven't come across one--at least not a cheap one--I like in years. Probably over a decade.
 

Mendieta

Master of Snowplow
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
4,844
Location
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Open bottle preservation!

Ok, I almost started a thread on this because this post will get lost in a long thread. But this is a ski site in the end, so I'll post here.

After trying different vacuum systems, I settled for re-corking my (red) wines for preservation. My typical use case is drinking a bottle over three days. Once I open it, it moves from the wine fridge to the groceries fridge, so oxidation and other processes slow down. For many years I used inert gas as well, to insulate the top layer of wine inside the bottle. However, at some point I realize that I always give plenty of air to my wines to open up, even in day 3.

So, I started corking it without any addition of inert gas, and putting it back in the fridge (at 5C) until the next evening. I have observed no negative effects, at all! If anything, it feels like the wine is going through slow pace decanting with the little oxygen inside the bottle, and at very low temps. So, it kind of evolves in a good way.

Of course, if I planned to keep the wine for a week or longer, I would use the inert gas. But even then, I wonder whether the ratio of oxygen to wine in a bottle either 2/3 or 1/3 full would ever ruin a wine, if tightly corked. Mmm ... I might need to run that experiment!

Thoughts, my dearest wine geeks?
 
Thread Starter
TS
Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
12,344
Location
Maine
Open bottle preservation!

Ok, I almost started a thread on this because this post will get lost in a long thread. But this is a ski site in the end, so I'll post here.

After trying different vacuum systems, I settled for re-corking my (red) wines for preservation. My typical use case is drinking a bottle over three days. Once I open it, it moves from the wine fridge to the groceries fridge, so oxidation and other processes slow down. For many years I used inert gas as well, to insulate the top layer of wine inside the bottle. However, at some point I realize that I always give plenty of air to my wines to open up, even in day 3.

So, I started corking it without any addition of inert gas, and putting it back in the fridge (at 5C) until the next evening. I have observed no negative effects, at all! If anything, it feels like the wine is going through slow pace decanting with the little oxygen inside the bottle, and at very low temps. So, it kind of evolves in a good way.

Of course, if I planned to keep the wine for a week or longer, I would use the inert gas. But even then, I wonder whether the ratio of oxygen to wine in a bottle either 2/3 or 1/3 full would ever ruin a wine, if tightly corked. Mmm ... I might need to run that experiment!

Thoughts, my dearest wine geeks?
Sure. The challenge is, how do you get the wine from fridge temp to drinking temp in a reasonable amount of time? (@mdf , I know your answer.)
 

Mendieta

Master of Snowplow
SkiTalk Tester
Contributor
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Posts
4,844
Location
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Sure. The challenge is, how do you get the wine from fridge temp to drinking temp in a reasonable amount of time? (@mdf , I know your answer.)

Good point - my house is always too warm for wine (~ 22C, give or take), but yes, 5C is obviously too cold. I take the wine out at least twenty minutes before drinking, but not much longer, since I'd rather the bottle is a bit too cold and not too warm. Then, I pour very little wine on the first glass so it warms up quickly in contact with the glass and the air ... :ogcool:
 

Sponsor

Staff online

Top