mostly wine stuff

skibob

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Posts
3,081
Location
Donner Lake
Do you have any insight as to what that actually means?

Herself refuses to let me put any US wine with 'organic' on the label on the table - she associates the term with wild, uncontrolled yeasty nastiness and headache-level ear buzz.
Well, that is definitely not what it means. Organic in wine means essentially the same as it does with food. Organically grown grapes and other materials only. Facility has to be certified for "organic" wine to be produced. "Wine from organically grown grapes" is a different, less restriced thing. There is a lower limit for total SO2, but it is still allowed for organic wine. Cultivated yeast too. Now, many of the small wineries that have embraced it might also be into no-sulfite winemaking, wild fermentations, etc. But you definitely won't find that at Bronco's organic winery.

As for headaches, those are the result of slow, difficult fermentations producing histamines and other amines. Not a result of sulfites, although that is a commonly held misconception. So, those wineries specializing in wild and no sulfite and the like--yeah, they might correlate with headaches sometimes.

Strangely, organic has never caught on with wine the way it has with food. It generally is not correlated with quality and there are very few high end, respected wineries also dabbling in organic (although they may advertise organically grown grapes).

I should add--organically grown grapes are exceedingly common, although they might not be certified. Grape growing for wine is one of the lowest impact forms of agriculture there is, as a generalization.
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
10,447
The way I'm interpreting your response is that our local retailers have 'curated' away from that genteel version of organic.
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
Skier
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Posts
5,307
Location
NJ
Tonight we found a bargain bottle that is very nice. Very pleasant at 10 bucks a bottle.
PXL_20210207_003519497.jpg
 
Thread Starter
TS
Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,177
Location
Maine
20210213_190132-01.jpeg One thing that bugs me is wines that try too hard and lose their identity in the process. "Be who you are and the people who should love you will." This is a little past, but still so quaffable. Everything is there except ambition. It's gotten to the point where a 12% wine like this seems "light." Yum.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
Skier
Joined
Nov 14, 2015
Posts
5,177
Location
Maine
Comfort food with comfort wine. Try this: Next time you make scalloped potatoes hide some mild green chiles in there.
20210213_200008-01.jpeg
 

doc

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Nov 25, 2015
Posts
339

surfacehoar

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2017
Posts
100
Well, that is definitely not what it means. Organic in wine means essentially the same as it does with food. Organically grown grapes and other materials only. Facility has to be certified for "organic" wine to be produced. "Wine from organically grown grapes" is a different, less restriced thing. There is a lower limit for total SO2, but it is still allowed for organic wine. Cultivated yeast too. Now, many of the small wineries that have embraced it might also be into no-sulfite winemaking, wild fermentations, etc. But you definitely won't find that at Bronco's organic winery.

As for headaches, those are the result of slow, difficult fermentations producing histamines and other amines. Not a result of sulfites, although that is a commonly held misconception. So, those wineries specializing in wild and no sulfite and the like--yeah, they might correlate with headaches sometimes.

Strangely, organic has never caught on with wine the way it has with food. It generally is not correlated with quality and there are very few high end, respected wineries also dabbling in organic (although they may advertise organically grown grapes).

I should add--organically grown grapes are exceedingly common, although they might not be certified. Grape growing for wine is one of the lowest impact forms of agriculture there is, as a generalization.
In the Okanagan valley there is a recent push for certified organic and even the big producers are transitioning their vineyards. The industry leaders are going a step further with a biodynamic certification. I don't really know what it all means to the end product but I like that they are focused on sustainable farming practices.

I have tours/tastings booked at Phantom Creek and Checkmate next week. What are some good questions that I should ask?
 
Last edited:

skibob

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Posts
3,081
Location
Donner Lake
In the Okanagan valley there is a recent push for certified organic and even the big producers are transitioning their vineyards. The industry leaders are going a step further with a biodynamic certification. I don't really know what it all means to the end product but I like that they are focused on sustainable farming practices.

I have tours/tastings booked at Phantom Creek and Checkmate next week. What are some good questions that I should ask?
Ultimately, those things don't really correlate with the end product in a meaningful way. The biodynamic people like to claim it does, but organic proponents are satisfied not to expose themselves and their workers to agchem.

The most important question to ask is "Do I like it?". I'd say the second most important is "did this smack in the face with pretense or seduce me with subtlety?" Which of those you like is up to you, but it is a distinction that a lot of people find useful in sorting what they love from what is merely good.
As far as what they will tell you in the tasting room (or wine mag, shelf talker, etc): it rarely has much to do with the wine you are drinking. I generally find the story of the people involved more engaging than "carefully selected only the best clusters" or "our precious soils which can be found nowhere else but these 5 acres outside the window on your right . . . ".
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
Skier
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Posts
5,307
Location
NJ
The most important question to ask is "Do I like it?". I'd say the second most important is "did this smack in the face with pretense or seduce me with subtlety?" Which of those you like is up to you, but it is a distinction that a lot of people find useful in sorting what they love from what is merely good.
As far as what they will tell you in the tasting room (or wine mag, shelf talker, etc): it rarely has much to do with the wine you are drinking. I generally find the story of the people involved more engaging than "carefully selected only the best clusters" or "our precious soils which can be found nowhere else but these 5 acres outside the window on your right . . . ".
I think we can agree on this statement, particularly the "Do I like it" part.
 

cantunamunch

Meh
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
10,447
I generally find the story of the people involved more engaging than "carefully selected only the best clusters" or "our precious soils which can be found nowhere else but these 5 acres outside the window on your right . . . ".
'Cleared out and re-trained, one, by one, the vines planted by his great-granduncle, on this shelf high above the river'
 

skibob

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Jan 5, 2016
Posts
3,081
Location
Donner Lake
Ultimately, those things don't really correlate with the end product in a meaningful way. The biodynamic people like to claim it does, but organic proponents are satisfied not to expose themselves and their workers to agchem.

The most important question to ask is "Do I like it?". I'd say the second most important is "did this smack in the face with pretense or seduce me with subtlety?" Which of those you like is up to you, but it is a distinction that a lot of people find useful in sorting what they love from what is merely good.
As far as what they will tell you in the tasting room (or wine mag, shelf talker, etc): it rarely has much to do with the wine you are drinking. I generally find the story of the people involved more engaging than "carefully selected only the best clusters" or "our precious soils which can be found nowhere else but these 5 acres outside the window on your right . . . ".
Like 5 minutes after I wrote that, this headline appears in an industry newsfeed for me:


LOL. Ok, first time that has been claimed.
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
Skier
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Posts
5,307
Location
NJ
Top