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mostly wine stuff

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Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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That's a new area to me. Good to know.
I've had mencía from elsewhere too, notably Ribeira Sacra. The only bad one I've had was probably just too old for what it was. Pretty big range of styles, it seems like. The one I've had most often - whose producer I now forget, of course - was definitely more on the light-and-crisp cru-Beaujolais side of things. This one is much richer, darker, and plummier.

What was particularly notable about this bottle was the way the wine changed over a short amount of time - maybe a half hour. At first it seemed kind of fat and jammy and with sweet black cherry notes like a modern CdR. Then quickly the fruit brightened up with the raspberry / mint thing going. A little bit later a strong, bitter-herb amaro-like component emerged. Like some kind of bark - almost medicinal. Moxie or Dr. Pepper, maybe. Super interesting.

Tell me more about this "lift and brightness" stuff.
Okay, well, everything is an analogy with wine, right? So you can't be taking me too seriously with my half-in-the-bag terminology. However basically what I'm talking about is how much acid and tannin is balancing the ripe sweetness of the fruit, along with the alcohol that goes with that ripe fruit. -- Not just acid and tannin but whether it reminds me of citrus and minerals and mint (bright, high-toned) or black fruit and spices (dark, low-toned). You could call it treble vs. bass if you want. The more of one you have, the more you need some of the other to balance it out. These days, between the warming climate and winemakers' ambitions with regard to harvesting extra-ripe grapes, it's pretty common to get wine that is big and impressive on the first couple sips, but flags and becomes cloying after a little while longer because it doesn't really stimulate your palate; it just sits on it like Jabba the Hutt. This is the wine equivalent of what @mdf calls "the salt trick" in a restaurant.
 
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pete

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Hot out today ... 90F+. A Gruet champagne is always welcomed here lby me and spouse and our pooch who rates for us based on the degree of cork chewing.

20210605_194619.jpg
 

cantunamunch

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Just had a Gruet blanc de noir friday night with sushi. One of the great values in wine. When I see it for $12-14 I pick up several!

I think this is one of the wines most of us here are in massive agreement with.

Hey, question to the Argentinean specialists - is anyone doing sparkling Torrontes?
 

cantunamunch

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However basically what I'm talking about is how much acid and tannin is balancing the ripe sweetness of the fruit, along with the alcohol that goes with that ripe fruit. -- Not just acid and tannin but whether it reminds me of citrus and minerals and mint (bright, high-toned) or black fruit and spices (dark, low-toned). You could call it treble vs. bass if you want. The more of one you have, the more you need some of the other to balance it out. These days, between the warming climate and winemakers' ambitions with regard to harvesting extra-ripe grapes, it's pretty common to get wine that is big and impressive on the first couple sips, but flags and becomes cloying after a little while longer because it doesn't really stimulate your palate; it just sits on it like Jabba the Hutt.

One of the easiest ways to taste the 'balancer' chemicals is to dilute the wine 8-1 to 10-1 in water. Think shot of wine in a regular glass of water.

For whatever reason, adding water tends to dilute the fruit, spice and sugar flavours much more than it dilutes bitterness, acid and minerality. Of course, topnote aromatics are almost gone.

Be prepared for massive surprises the first couple of times you do this.

#andthentheresretsina
 
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Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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One of the easiest ways to taste the 'balancer' chemicals is to dilute the wine 8-1 to 10-1 in water. Think shot of wine in a regular glass of water.

For whatever reason, adding water tends to dilute the fruit, spice and sugar flavours much more than it dilutes bitterness, acid and minerality. Of course, topnote aromatics are almost gone.

Be prepared for massive surprises the first couple of times you do this.
Cool. I will try this.
 

Uncle-A

In the words of Paul Simon "You can call me Al"
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(Actually not even sure why I'm asking, I can't even get a Franciacorta selection without driving to NJ or NY)
That must be a long drive, I didn't realize that you and Terry Pratchett live in the same place.
 
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Tony S

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I have a confusion to make ...
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That must be a long drive, I didn't realize that you and Terry Pratchett live in the same place.
That went WAY over my head. Isn't Terry Pratchett dead? Like ... Discworld? Neil Gaiman's buddy? That Terry Pratchett? And wasn't he English?
 

Mike King

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Wonderful pairing. A 2015 Arnot-Roberts Trout Gulch chard with Joshua McFadden’s pasta primavera with asparagus and peas! Spectacular.
 

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Thread Starter
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Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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What was I thinking when I opened this baby? It's like blueberry ink poured over yesterday's rained-on campfire ashes. (The mineral part, not the smoky part.) In any case, totally scrumptious. Saving the other bottle, @mdf !
20210624_195416-03.jpeg
 

dan ross

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Ok, here’s a question for all you Oenophiles :
Why , when I drink wine in Europe ( sadly it’s been awhile) I feel fine the next day . The same amount, often less, of the same wine/vintage consumed at home and it’s a different story. I’ve heard various explanations , sulfites added for export, the fact one is on vacation, I.e. more relaxed etc. I never thought the sulfites were a real thing as they aren’t added to better wines regardless of final destination. Anybody else or is it just me?
 
Thread Starter
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Tony S

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Ok, here’s a question for all you Oenophiles :
Why , when I drink wine in Europe ( sadly it’s been awhile) I feel fine the next day . The same amount, often less, of the same wine/vintage consumed at home and it’s a different story. I’ve heard various explanations , sulfites added for export, the fact one is on vacation, I.e. more relaxed etc. I never thought the sulfites were a real thing as they aren’t added to better wines regardless of final destination. Anybody else or is it just me?
If you could magically replay tapes of what actually happened on those "good" and "bad" days, my guess is you'd figure it out. For example, "Oh, we walked home fourteen blocks after the meal that night." (Europe) Or "Oh, it was a super hot afternoon and I spent two hours doing yard work and I didn't drink enough water." (America)
 

cantunamunch

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I volunteer for testing? Sulfites don't affect me in that way and the proof is I go through half a bag of dried apricots on a bike ride.

We've had the TdF presentation already. @newfydog usually does a food thing. Who's doing the wines?
 

skibob

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I volunteer for testing? Sulfites don't affect me in that way and the proof is I go through half a bag of dried apricots on a bike ride.

We've had the TdF presentation already. @newfydog usually does a food thing. Who's doing the wines?
People often blame sulfites. But European wines have them too, in similar amounts. And careful testing demonstrates that sulfite intolerance is extraordinarily rare. Those who think they are, are almost certainly not.

The answer lies in the fermentation. Start with grapes grown in balanced soil, in a moderate climate, picked at moderate sugar and fermented w/o any extreme practices (long soaks, temp extremes, etc) and your yeast produce relatively few histamines (and other biogenic amines). Do the oppositee, start with grapes grown in extreme soils of some kind, in extreme climates, pick at high sugar, ferment w/ extreme practices and your yeast will produce relatively more histamines/other amines.

This is a gross oversimplification, and over generalization. But the former is more likely to resemble Europe and the latter more likely to resemble the US (and other new world grape production). Emphasis on over generalization. There are lots of exceptions both ways.

But the answer is histamine and other biogenic amines, which are generally higher in new world wines than old world.
 

Uncle-A

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Ok, here’s a question for all you Oenophiles :
Why , when I drink wine in Europe ( sadly it’s been awhile) I feel fine the next day . The same amount, often less, of the same wine/vintage consumed at home and it’s a different story. I’ve heard various explanations , sulfites added for export, the fact one is on vacation, I.e. more relaxed etc. I never thought the sulfites were a real thing as they aren’t added to better wines regardless of final destination. Anybody else or is it just me?
Have you ruled out what you might eat with the wine in Europe vs The USA?
 

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