Mount point + 1 or + 2 or...?

[Bruno Schull]

Hi folks,

I'm considering some new skis (Volkl Blaze 106) and I'm thinking of mounting them at + 1 or + 2 from the recommended line. Actually, there is a regular line on these skis, as well as a + 1 and + 2 line, so it would be within the "somewhat acceptable" range. Why am I considering this? My understanding is that the Blaze 106 is a fairly maneuverable though directional ski, that likes to be driven with forward stance. I, on the other hand, feel more comfortable skiing with a more upright stance, and I like more surfy and maneuverable feel. So, I'm hoping that by mounting a little forward, I can get the most out of these skis, for my style. These skis will be mounted with Atomic Shift bindings, and Atomic Hawx Prime XTD 130 boots. Like the skis, these binding and boots are back country oriented...on the light side for dedicated piste gear, and on the heavy side for pure touring gear. I plan to use them about 50/50 on/off piste.

Specifically, can we draw any broad conclusions about how a ski's behavior will change when mounted a little forward of the usual line? Will they work better with a more upright stance? Will they have a more surfy feel? Will the tails be easier or harder to swing around? Presumably, the tips won't plane quite as well in powder. Basically, how does moving the mount point forward affect a ski???

Here are some things I know will be said so I'll go ahead and say them first

1. Buy a different ski. If the Blaze 106 prefers a more forward stance, maybe I should consider a different ski? Fair enough, but it's not so easy to find a good 50/50 front/backcountry ski at 1700-1800 grams like the Blaze.
2. Adopt a more forward position. Yup. I love my SL skis and carving on piste. But when skiing in difficult, variable snow, especially when tired or wearing a pack, I'm more comfortable with a centered stance.
3. Learn to control the skis better and don't worry about equipment. Yup again. I constantly work to improve my technique. That said, as above, when off piste, in difficult, variable snow, tired, carrying a pack, I need all the help I can get. That's why I'm planning on using a relatively heavy ski/boot/binding combination as my back country set up.

If it helps, my previous back country set up was Salomon Mountain Explore 95 skis, Vipec bindings, and Scott Cosmos III boots. I really liked the skis, but they felt are a little traditional in terms of feel and required technique, and I'm looking for something better in difficult, variable conditions, and generally easier to maneuver, especially turn initiation, and releasing the tails.

All the best,

Bruno

 

[GregK]

Hi folks,

I'm considering some new skis (Völkl Blaze 106) and I'm thinking of mounting them at + 1 or + 2 from the recommended line. Actually, there is a regular line on these skis, as well as a + 1 and + 2 line, so it would be within the "somewhat acceptable" range. Why am I considering this? My understanding is that the Blaze 106 is a fairly maneuverable though directional ski, that likes to be driven with forward stance. I, on the other hand, feel more comfortable skiing with a more upright stance, and I like more surfy and maneuverable feel. So, I'm hoping that by mounting a little forward, I can get the most out of these skis, for my style. These skis will be mounted with Atomic Shift bindings, and Atomic Hawx Prime XTD 130 boots. Like the skis, these binding and boots are back country oriented...on the light side for dedicated piste gear, and on the heavy side for pure touring gear. I plan to use them about 50/50 on/off piste.

Specifically, can we draw any broad conclusions about how a ski's behavior will change when mounted a little forward of the usual line? Will they work better with a more upright stance? Will they have a more surfy feel? Will the tails be easier or harder to swing around? Presumably, the tips won't plane quite as well in powder. Basically, how does moving the mount point forward affect a ski???

Here are some things I know will be said so I'll go ahead and say them first

1. Buy a different ski. If the Blaze 106 prefers a more forward stance, maybe I should consider a different ski? Fair enough, but it's not so easy to find a good 50/50 front/backcountry ski at 1700-1800 grams like the Blaze.
2. Adopt a more forward position. Yup. I love my SL skis and carving on piste. But when skiing in difficult, variable snow, especially when tired or wearing a pack, I'm more comfortable with a centered stance.
3. Learn to control the skis better and don't worry about equipment. Yup again. I constantly work to improve my technique. That said, as above, when off piste, in difficult, variable snow, tired, carrying a pack, I need all the help I can get. That's why I'm planning on using a relatively heavy ski/boot/binding combination as my back country set up.

If it helps, my previous back country set up was Salomon Mountain Explore 95 skis, Vipec bindings, and Scott Cosmos III boots. I really liked the skis, but they felt are a little traditional in terms of feel and required technique, and I'm looking for something better in difficult, variable conditions, and generally easier to maneuver, especially turn initiation, and releasing the tails.

All the best,

Bruno

Your assumptions with moving mounts is pretty accurate and moving the very traditional Volkl ski mounts is very common as they usually have plus 1cm and plus 2cm markings on all their “all mountain” skis.

Moving a mount forward will make the “ski shorter” and will allow easier pivoting, feel more balanced in the air, allow for a more centered stance and allow easier turn initiation. Moving a mount back will increase tip float in powder, allow you drive the ski in a forward stance easier, increase carving power and make the ski will feel more stable and less twitchy at higher speeds.

Most ski designers agree that a recommended ski mount can usually be moved a cm or two back or forwards to suit the skiers preference without issues. More than a few cm and you might start “fighting the sidecut” though but some skis have a larger mount sweet spot.

For the Blaze 106 (11.9cm back from Center mount rec mount), moving a cm or two forward would indeed allow a more centered stance and easier pivoting with some loss in float and stability. Even plus 2cm that puts you at a still fairly traditional 9.9cm back from Center which many other skis with similar sidecuts have, one being your Explore 95 skis which have a rec mount of 10cm back from Center.
The added width along the entire ski of the Blaze 106 will provide far more float and ease of skiing than the Explore 95 ski even at plus 2cm. The deeper tail rocker and fairly flat rocker make the Blaze 106 easy to pivot and it’s increased weight in comparison to the Explore 95 will make it better in variable conditions.
You picked a good ski I think for your preferences!

 

[anders_nor]

Awaiting mine, and wondering the same, I do like to drive the shovels at times.

going kingpin 13's on theese, but might make another binding freedom mount for the duke pt 16's apparantly the ski is fun!

 

[Bruno Schull]

GregK--that is one of the most detailed, concise, well-written and overall-helpful responses I've every received on the internet (or anywhere else, for that matter). I really appreciate it. Your words are a testimony to the generosity and depth and breath of knowledge in the ski community. Thanks!

 

[GregK]

GregK--that is one of the most detailed, concise, well-written and overall-helpful responses I've every received on the internet (or anywhere else, for that matter). I really appreciate it. Your words are a testimony to the generosity and depth and breath of knowledge in the ski community. Thanks!

Thanks, my consulting fee bill is in the mail !
Lots of great knowledge on this site.

Running my Kendo’s 88 at the plus 2cm mark to make them more playful and easier to pivot so you’re not alone.

Faction skis this year have a “New school/Candide”(centered stance and ski switch often) forward mount, a “progressive”(centered stance or can drive the skis) mount 1.5cm back from that and finally a “Classic” (forward stance) mount another 1.5cm back or 3cm back from the new school/Candide Mark.
Their all mountain skis just have the “classic” mount marked on the ski and you move the mount forward if desired like Volkl skis.