Mountain employee treatment and pay

[martyg]

I won't comment. Let's just say that my experiences have been less than positive. I was employed by ski hills as a hobby.

However I will say this... Every time I interact with a ski area employee I thank them for their hard work - especially with COVID. If you can't do anything else, do that. You will likely make someone's day.

 

[crgildart]

It's clear that there is no consistant policy throughout the industry. Even fast food and retail jobs have pretty similar benefits structure across different competitors in the industry. Ski resorts seem all over the place..

 

[Rich McP]

@crgildart ...like I said, I'm not sure if its across the board at all VRR, or if it was just the brick wall I was coming up against. That's not the only brick wall I experienced.

Edit to add: My experience was from 2012-2017

I'm seasonal part time and am eligible for 401k. I was discussing health insurance the other day with a buddy who is seasonal full time. He gets health for the season, COBRAs through the offseason. Full timers get PTO, part timers don't. Tricia's info is old, and like she said, I don't know if this goes beyond my hood, or my state, or my country.

 

[Tricia]

I'm seasonal part time and am eligible for 401k. I was discussing health insurance the other day with a buddy who is seasonal full time. He gets health for the season, COBRAs through the offseason. Full timers get PTO, part timers don't. Tricia's info is old, and like she said, I don't know if this goes beyond my hood, or my state, or my country.

I took the letters I got in the may and was repeatedly turned away by HR at Northstar, with the comment that I was seasonal part time, even though I was working full time hours.
Maybe the HR departments weren't all on the same page?

 

[Tricia]

I won't comment. Let's just say that my experiences have been less than positive. I was employed by ski hills as a hobby.

However I will say this... Every time I interact with a ski area employee I thank them for their hard work - especially with COVID. If you can't do anything else, do that. You will likely make someone's day.

The little thigs count.

 

[Ken_R]

Vail Resorts treats most employees like coal in a steam locomotive: cheap fuel in endless supply.

I know its just a drop in the bucket but I am DONE supporting companies that treat employees badly. Done supporting a-holes.

PLEASE call the bad employers in the industry out. That is how change starts.

 

[Blue Streak]

I know its just a drop in the bucket but I am DONE supporting companies that treat employees badly. Done supporting a-holes.

PLEASE call the bad employers in the industry out. That is how change starts.

It’s not as simple as good or bad. Rule No. 1 is that a business has to survive to do anyone any good. Beyond that, it’s about balancing returns to investors against the welfare of employees. Most ski areas rely upon low wage labor, all of whom are there of their own free will.
The best management advice I ever received was to treat your employees as volunteers, because that’s exactly what they are.

 

[martyg]

I know its just a drop in the bucket but I am DONE supporting companies that treat employees badly. Done supporting a-holes.

PLEASE call the bad employers in the industry out. That is how change starts.

Might be easier to name those that treat employees as valued assets? The other list may be embarrassingly long.

 

[Blue Streak]

Vail treats PT ski instructors pretty well. I would just hate to have to make a living at it. Most are either young kids (many from privilege) or financially independent sorts, who do it for the camaraderie and the love of the sport. Sometime, when a SS supervisor gets a little overbearing, I feel like pointing out that this guy is a surgeon who took two weeks off to come here to teach, and this guy is a retired invest banker who owns more homes than I do suits, and this lady is a tenured college professor on sabbatical.
They get paid, but they are volunteers, and sometimes the supervisors forget that.
Most are there to be part of something. Belonging. It’s straight out of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.
I attended a MA training tonight via MS Teams, and it was great to see so many familiar faces.
A PT ski school gig (like most worthwhile endeavors) is all about the people.
It’s like Pugski, except you get a locker.

 

[DoryBreaux]

Vail treats PT ski instructors pretty well.

I think this depends greatly on which resort you work at. I worked at Northstar Ski School and felt that there was an overall "liability not asset" attitude toward everyone. Some of the supes and managers genuinely cared about the frontline instructors, but would constantly be shot down when they tried to better the department. I think that PT instructors generally felt better treated because they did not have as much relying on their job (I'd say skin in the game but that isn't really accurate).

 

[jimtransition]

Might be easier to name those that treat employees as valued assets? The other list may be embarrassingly long.

I saw Aspen opened a day early for employees and their families, they also pay their instructors a living wage which seems to be rarity.

 

[Ken_R]

It’s not as simple as good or bad. Rule No. 1 is that a business has to survive to do anyone any good. Beyond that, it’s about balancing returns to investors against the welfare of employees. Most ski areas rely upon low wage labor, all of whom are there of their own free will.
The best management advice I ever received was to treat your employees as volunteers, because that’s exactly what they are.

Some people just want to make an honest living at what they love. Yes, they are there on their own free will. There is no slave labor in the USA (that I know of) but still, one has to draw the line somewhere.

I get the business part of it. Totally. but Vail (as an example, I am not saying they are the only ones) is not Walmart. People pay a VERY premium price for their product. That is what they sell and service is part of it and its tough to expect the product / service to be up to par when you treat employees like cheap dirt. (again, yes, that is all relative to the place, this is Colorado, USA not India or China (no offense)


whats this about?:

 

[slowrider]

There're 2 resorts within 20 miles that I typically ski. 1 is corporate and an embarrassment. The other is a family business and a happy place to work and ride. It all starts at the top.

 

[DoryBreaux]

I saw Aspen opened a day early for employees and their families, they also pay their instructors a living wage which seems to be rarity.

I've heard that ASC pays roughly half the lesson cost. Where VR (although tiered), pays roughly 10%. I guess if you're a L3 or ed staff, maxed out on return raises and request hour incentives, with a return student, yeah you might get closer to half that lesson cost. But that is a pretty long string between the carrot and the stick...

 

[jimtransition]

I've heard that ASC pays roughly half the lesson cost. Where VR (although tiered), pays roughly 10%. I guess if you're a L3 or ed staff, maxed out on return raises and request hour incentives, with a return student, yeah you might get closer to half that lesson cost. But that is a pretty long string between the carrot and the stick...

Aspen pays more the more hours an instructor works, so a person at the top of the scale is earning good money by the end of the season for sure. I would like to work there (for other reasons as well), Vail, not so much.

 

[Tricia]

I wonder how all the resorts who can't get J1Vs will fair this season? Gotta hire all the grumpy locals for higher wages now?

It's shaking out to be quite interseting for sure.

I think this depends greatly on which resort you work at. I worked at Northstar Ski School and felt that there was an overall "liability not asset" attitude toward everyone. Some of the supes and managers genuinely cared about the frontline instructors, but would constantly be shot down when they tried to better the department. I think that PT instructors generally felt better treated because they did not have as much relying on their job (I'd say skin in the game but that isn't really accurate).

The 5 years I worked at N* I heard pretty much the same thing in retail. The occasional management that wanted to do something for their staff members would get shot down enough that they'd quit, which left a lack of consisitency in management, and perhaps why I had 7 managers in 5 years.

 

[wallyk]

The OP posted what appears to be emotional question for those inside the industry while providing interesting insights for the consumers of the ski industry, this person included. The responses have been interesting to read, @Tricia your frustration is palpable.

After reading some of the replies does the 2020/21 ski season provide management the opportunity to reduce human staff and integrate more automation like some of the European areas have? Ticket windows can be a relic of the past, while possibly reducing the number of guest facing staff at rental counter, lesson areas and lift ares can increase safety and reduce costs.

Thoughts?

 

[Après Skier]

When I ski I usually keep a few loose $5 bills in little pocket of my glove. If a liftie or someone in a similar position is particularly kind or helpful I will sometimes tip (especially when it’s bitter cold). Instructors, of course, get a more appropriate tip as discussed here.

 

[Mike King]

I saw Aspen opened a day early for employees and their families, they also pay their instructors a living wage which seems to be rarity.

Aspen does treat their employees relatively well. The opening yesterday for employees and dependents was primarily to work out the logistics of having the mountains open for the general public. It also was a nice employee benefit.

Seasonal workers at Aspen are eligible for benefits after they have earned full-time status for a year. They can participate in medical, 401k, receive paid time off, and their medical insurance is continued through the off-season at, I believe, a higher cost, but it does not become COBRA.

As to pay, it also varies, but when I started in Aspen, my hourly pay rate tripled from what it was at Breck.

Mike

 

[mister moose]

I've heard that ASC pays roughly half the lesson cost. Where VR (although tiered), pays roughly 10%. I guess if you're a L3 or ed staff, maxed out on return raises and request hour incentives, with a return student, yeah you might get closer to half that lesson cost. But that is a pretty long string between the carrot and the stick...

ASC??? Aspen really Otten get a different acronym.