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Moving up to current gen race skis from vintage Rossignol 9X Course

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dcoral

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Recent trend seems to be multiple different sidecuts on one ski (from tip to tail), so it's getting more complicated to figure out how that relates back to the single radius used in the past.

Sounds like you are learning what you like and don't about various skis. Small turning radius being a strong dislike for you. All mountain skis come in variety of flavors regarding preferred turn shape and on/off piste biases. Sounds like you will likely only be happy on the longest length of any of them, as those tend to be the stiffest with the largest turn radius.

Which did you spend more time on? The GS or the Mantra?

Interesting, yes, I love the 3D radius sidecut on the Volkl M6 Mantra. I have no idea how the physics work on the variable sidecut but it feels very fun. On my 184 Volkl the variable sidecut is 32-19-26.

I spent equal time on the Volkl M6 Mantra 184 and the Head GIS FIS 193 alternating back and forth each ski day, and actually I had a hard time deciding in the morning which one I wanted to take. Toward the end of the trip I started to realize it depends on the snow conditions which one is more fun. For hard packed groomers - I love the Head GS, while the Volkl is more fun on messed up snow/crud, variable terrain, moguls, between the trees. It makes sense, those are the conditions they were design for, respectively.

I am looking to maybe also try the Stockli Laser SX 193 FIS (which is larger turn radius than the consumer SX) because I am so curious what they did special for a "Ski Cross" ski to make it good for the wild banks and jumps on those courses. Sometimes I like to jump, but the Head GS is a bit harsh for that.
 
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James

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On my 184 Volkl the variable sidecut is 32-19-26.
19m for the center is pretty shapey for a 184.
You can’t average those numbers.
The 177 from Blister review-
Stated Sidecut Radius (177 cm): 29.8 m / 17.5 m / 24.3 m

Kastle had pretty high radius sidecuts over 10 years ago
 
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dcoral

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One negative about the Head GS is the weak top coating. After about 4 days skiing on it, parts of the white enamel are already peeling off from impact. In contrast my old school Rossignol looks great after many seasons, hundreds of runs. I am sure the Stockli turtle shell is also better than this weak Head coating. I think after one season my Head GS will look pretty trashed.

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Seldomski

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One negative about the Head GS is the weak top coating. After about 4 days skiing on it, parts of the white enamel are already peeling off from impact. In contrast my old school Rossignol looks great after many seasons, hundreds of runs. I am sure the Stöckli turtle shell is also better than this weak Head coating. I think after one season my Head GS will look pretty trashed.
I like to think of damage like that as reducing the chance they will be stolen.
 

silverback

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Who did the prep on your Head race skis? My shop typically files the top sheets as part of the race prep service. What base and side edge angles did you go with?
 

Tony S

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The old skis appear to be a cap or semi cap construction. Apples and oranges.
 
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dcoral

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Who did the prep on your Head race skis? My shop typically files the top sheets as part of the race prep service. What base and side edge angles did you go with?

I took it to Goldsmiths Sports in Big Bear for prep since they're the only race ski dealer anywhere in Southern CA (besides Mammoth which is a longer drive). I just kept the factory 0.4/2 angles. I may change it to 0.4/3 when I look into doing the race camp at Mammoth again. I didn't know that filing the top sheets is a thing to do; I'll probably take some sandpaper and do that before the entire top enamel peels off.
 

silverback

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silverback

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I don't know about others here but I like my GS skis at 0.7/3 but I don't race them. My racing son has his set at 0.5/3 and, when I've tried them out, they just seem unforgiving. For free skiing it is easier to scrub speed before a blind knoll or group of tourists or ski through some moguls. I do keep my SLs at 0.5 though and they seem fine free skiing. :huh:
 
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dcoral

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I don't know about others here but I like my GS skis at 0.7/3 but I don't race them. My racing son has his set at 0.5/3 and, when I've tried them out, they just seem to unforgiving. For free skiing it is easier to scrub speed before a blind knoll or group of tourists or ski through some moguls. I do keep my SLs at 0.5 though and they seem fine free skiing. :huh:

This makes sense. Is there a way that I can precisely measure the angle at home (a certain ski tool) rather than trusting the shop/factory?
 

Tony Storaro

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This makes sense. Is there a way that I can precisely measure the angle at home (a certain ski tool) rather than trusting the shop/factory?

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One of the prettiest tools I have ever seen.


 

François Pugh

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Just got back from 9 days skiing Park City/Canyons with the Stöckli Laser AX 175, Volkl M6 Mantra 184, and Head e-GS RD FIS 193.

I love the Volkl M6 Mantra and Head GS FIS, depending on the conditions.

The Volkl M6 Mantra is so playful, yet solid and fast on uneven crud, powder, and messing around on the side banks of runs. Great for trails like Pinball at Canyons (a run between the trees).

The Head GS FIS is a dream on hard packed groomers. Fast turns like they're on rails, yet super easy to turn (easier than my old school Rossignal 201).

The Stöckli Laser AX is a wonderful ski, but it made me realize that I just don't enjoy short radius turns. So I'm selling it. If I want to enjoy icy groomers, I will use the Head GS FIS. If I want to enjoy powder/crud, I will take the Volkl M6 Mantra. The Stöckli Laser AX is in between the two, and with a less exciting short turn radius, and since I would leave it behind most the time, I don't need it when I have the other two.

What surprised me the most was how much I enjoyed the Volkl M6 Mantra. I wasn't expecting much when I first bought it, but it blew me away. I love the stiffness and the GS turn radius. If it was softer and/or with a short turn radius I probably wouldn't like it. But it has just the right width (not too wide) combined with these aspects to make the perfect combination. One thing I need to get used to is how light they are in comparison to heavy skis that I'm used to (my muscle memory makes me drive them hard and bang them together sometimes because they are so light).

Throughout this thread, some people said (or implied) that there is no reason for a non-racer to buy a GS FIS ski. It made me doubt my sanity and wonder if I made mistake to buy it instead of changing over to trendy short/shaped skis. However the Head e-GS RD FIS 193 is amazingly FUN! Now I can assert that the people who are giving this advice are misguided/biased to the familiar/inexperienced, and I hope that others will not be discouraged from trying out GS racing skis for recreation, even if they are not actively racing in events.

Next I am tempted to buy the Stöckli Laser WRT SX (185, 190, 193) to continue the experimentation with something different than the other two. Looks like that might be a custom order item.
I have skis that range from 13-m side-cut radius to ~70 m sidecut. It's not "just a number". There is no doubt that a longer side-cut radius ski makes a better, smoother, more precise long radius turn. Simple physics will tell you that at high speeds you are making long radius turns. So yeah, I agree with you. I think it may come down to that most folk on this forum don't approve of DH/SG speeds outside of a closed course.
 

mdf

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View attachment 155754



One of the prettiest tools I have ever seen.


I agree, but there are cheaper ways, at least for side.
https://www.tognar.com/fk-side-bevel-gauge/
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Or mark the edge with a sharpie and see what angle takes it off evenly.

Base is trickier to measure.
 

trailtrimmer

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I don't know about others here but I like my GS skis at 0.7/3 but I don't race them. My racing son has his set at 0.5/3 and, when I've tried them out, they just seem unforgiving. For free skiing it is easier to scrub speed before a blind knoll or group of tourists or ski through some moguls. I do keep my SLs at 0.5 though and they seem fine free skiing. :huh:
Agreed 100% on a more gentle base bevel. .7 is a nice blend of recreation and raceable. For pure recreation or on less steep courses, a 1/3 is still a very viable tune and far more forgiving.

Also, the OP. I'd love to see what your technique looks like. If you have a bit of old school driving left in you, modern carvers aren't going to be optimal or as fun. With good technique, they will do amazing things at less speed than a full on masters GS ski.
 

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