• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Mt Bachelor being sued over death of 9yr old

Pequenita

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Aug 5, 2017
Posts
1,625
Again, it's an awful thing that happened; no one is arguing that. However, the list of alleged duties in the suit make me wonder: how many other people who were not informed, didn't have someone telling them the exact conditions, etc. did NOT have a similar result that day. If that lift was running there were likely hundreds of other skiers going to the top, off loading at the same spot, and encountering the same conditions. I would wager not all those other skiers were expert skiers, the only ones who could negotiate poor conditions.
I did a super quick search yesterday, and there a several news articles about the accident close in time to when it occurred, where people stated their riding/boarding level, indicated they were at the resort the day of the accident, and their opinions on the conditions at the resort that day. They include self-professed experts who say they fell, etc., on the run; were shocked it was open; etc. If I were the plaintiffs’ attorney, these are the people I’d be telling the resort I’d call as witnesses to a potential trial.

There’s always an issue with how reliable those witnesses are, but it would be highly entertaining to see who calls themself an expert skier under oath.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,331
Location
NYC
I'd wager it was closed all day due to the incident investigators.. not necessarily a crime scene but I doubt anyone was allowed to ski that run for the rest of the day who weren't part of that team documenting stuff..

So you are saying the family got first chair and the resort closed the run immediately after the boy was killed?
 

slowrider

Trencher
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Posts
4,562
No scale in photo to judge by, how high are the "teeth"?
I'd say 6 inches average. Here's a close up. On the top of Summit. It just opened after a week long ice storm. Beverly Hills was smooth ice and skiable if you like that kind of thing. 1 look at those teeth said no way and I have more balls than brains.
bobski003a.jpg
 

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,678
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
An electric info sign at the RIFD gates to the lift with important conditions updates would definitely make a difference or at least show they are trying to ensure people avoid a bad day..
The trouble with that is someone would have to make the call, and woe betide them if they make the wrong call, or fail to make the call. A burden they do not now have.
 

Shawn

Beep beep
Skier
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
Posts
468
Location
Springfield, PA
I did a super quick search yesterday, and there a several news articles about the accident close in time to when it occurred, where people stated their riding/boarding level, indicated they were at the resort the day of the accident, and their opinions on the conditions at the resort that day. They include self-professed experts who say they fell, etc., on the run; were shocked it was open; etc. If I were the plaintiffs’ attorney, these are the people I’d be telling the resort I’d call as witnesses to a potential trial.

There’s always an issue with how reliable those witnesses are, but it would be highly entertaining to see who calls themself an expert skier under oath.
Cross-examination of witness:

A: But did you die?
W: No, but...
A: No further questions, your honor.

To me the more interesting expert testimony would be how a helmet can get "ripped off" in a fall. I strongly suspect the helmet wasn't fastened properly (or at all?) or wasn't sized correctly. Michael Schumacher-type injuries or deaths can still occur when wearing a helmet, but your chances vs. rocks go way down without any helmet at all. If the liability waiver isn't enforced, then I would put improper helmet use alone as greater than 51% responsibility for death, which would totally preclude damages in Oregon, a modified comparative negligence state.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,331
Location
NYC
I would like to see a state law that anyone under 18 should wear a helmet while skiing/snowboarding. Is that too much infringement on personal freedoms?

Go ski NJ.

Who knew NJ has ski resorts? :huh:
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
16,479
Location
The Bull City
So you are saying the family got first chair and the resort closed the run immediately after the boy was killed?
I didn't say that. I said after the accident.. but but but....


I did a super quick search yesterday, and there a several news articles about the accident close in time to when it occurred, where people stated their riding/boarding level, indicated they were at the resort the day of the accident, and their opinions on the conditions at the resort that day. They include self-professed experts who say they fell, etc., on the run; were shocked it was open; etc. If I were the plaintiffs’ attorney, these are the people I’d be telling the resort I’d call as witnesses to a potential trial.

There’s always an issue with how reliable those witnesses are, but it would be highly entertaining to see who calls themself an expert skier under oath.
 

Bill Miles

Old Man Groomer Zoomer
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 16, 2015
Posts
1,338
Location
Hailey, Idaho
FWIW, I did a search for Oregon and Federal court records and all I could find was an Oregon case appointing a PR for the estate. I don't know if civil cases regarding minors are not published on the system.
 

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
27,612
Location
Reno
They close it because they can't run the lift. It is a raging winter storm cloud up there much of January. They open it when they can de-ice the pulleys and cables.

Should they close the big terrain park features because the average skier can't go off them safely? (a legitimate question....I know of a young girl who suffered permanent brain damage because one of the jumps looked so fun and enticing. Her parents considered a suit but decided not to file.)

When I took risk management courses some of the things they emphasized were (keeping in mind this is for a motocross track)
  • Build the track features with safe landings and don't have man made obstacles that could cause bodily harm
  • Don't "over sign"
The bit about not over signing things is a bit counter intuitive, but every time a business starts to put signs up taking responsibility out of the hands of the participant they are taking on a bit of liability as well.

In the example of ski resorts (in general, not just Bachelor), every time you put a sign up at the bottom of the lift saying, "conditions are icy today" then the next day "conditions are chalky today" you are taking on the liability of how you forecasted that run. If it starts off in the day with chalky groomers then gets scraped off to become icy, the signage is misrepresenting current conditions. Lifties and ski patrol should not be taking that kind of responsibilty, and ski resorts need to evaluate how much they are able and willing to take on.

In the risk management that I was talking about, they specifically didn't want us to take responsibilty for decision makeing of the participants.
Example:
The track is wet and loamy today
Then it gets windy and has seen a few races and gets dusty with horrible visibility and someone gets hurt.

Participant can say: They said it wasn't dusty but I crashed because there was so much dust I couldn't see.

So, we didn't state track conditions, we allowed the participants to have an hour or two before racing began to walk the track and inspect conditions for themselves.
 
Last edited:

Tricia

The Velvet Hammer
Admin
SkiTalk Tester
Joined
Nov 1, 2015
Posts
27,612
Location
Reno

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,331
Location
NYC
I've came across skiers stuck on very difficult runs on many occasions.
My first question is "Are you OK?"
My second question is usually "Didn't you see the 'Expert Only' sign at the entrance to the run?"
The most frequent answer I get is "I didn't think that applied to me." :nono:
 

LiquidFeet

instructor
Instructor
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
6,723
Location
New England
I've came across skiers stuck on very difficult runs on many occasions.
My first question is "Are you OK?"
My second question is usually "Didn't you see the 'Expert Only' sign at the entrance to the run?"
The most frequent answer I get is "I didn't think that applied to me." :nono:
I feel sorry for these folks mostly. Yes, I come upon them too, and I do what they will let me do to help. I think of them as the great unwashed.

The worst is a trail at my mountain that is inadequately labeled. Not everyone takes out a trail map before entering a trail, so first timers enter it thinking it's what it looks like -- a big wide flat groomer.

It certainly looks like a flat groomer when you enter it. But sadly for them, no. It is never groomed, and the snow sits flat on it, That's not the issue. There's an unseen drop-off down a ways beyond the entrance, and that is the issue. At that point they are already pretty far down the trail, and have 4 times that distance yet to go on bumps with trees on a blue pitch.

For skiers wanting to try bumps, for those wanting to work on their bump technique, that trail is perfect. But for anyone wanting to cruise down a wide easy groomer, the terrain challenge comes as a disturbing surprise. Once they see what's ahead of them, it's too late to walk back up. The distance they've traveled is too far. If they walk back up, it can take 45 minutes to an hour or more depending on the depth of the snow.

I've given up getting mountain ops to label this trail properly with a visible sign that says it's an ungroomed blue run with bumps and trees. So many people don't see the sign ("Ungroomed"), and if they do they don't register what that might mean since what they see is a wide open flat expanse of low pitch easy-looking snow to ski.

When I come upon these lost souls looking down in panic, I either lead them down if they are willing, or get ski patrol to come give them a courtesy ride out of there.
 

slowrider

Trencher
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Posts
4,562
I've came across skiers stuck on very difficult runs on many occasions.
My first question is "Are you OK?"
My second question is usually "Didn't you see the 'Expert Only' sign at the entrance to the run?"
The most frequent answer I get is "I didn't think that applied to me." :nono:
It doesn't apply to them. Their not an expert. :philgoat:
I've found that if I under estimate my abilities I'm usually good to go. YMMV
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
12,331
Location
NYC
When I come upon these lost souls looking down in panic, I either lead them down if they are willing, or get ski patrol to come give them a courtesy ride out of there.

I do the same thing. About half will take me up on either patrol or ski down with a little coaching from me. The other half are just too proud. Not my problem.

Last year early season at Stratton. It was one per day for 4 days straight. Mamie said I must be a magnet for those over terrain skiers.
 

crgildart

Gravity Slave
Skier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
16,479
Location
The Bull City
When I took risk management courses some of the things they emphasized were (keeping in mind this is for a motocross track)
  • Build the track features with safe landings and don't have man made obstacles that could cause bodily harm
  • Don't "over sign"
Isn't there some case involving a high level pro MTN biker dude who was seriously injured when he lost control of his whip and hit a trail sign? He sued the place and I think he won..
 

slowrider

Trencher
Skier
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Posts
4,562

Sponsor

Staff online

Top