Mt Bachelor being sued over death of 9yr old

[KingGrump]

You mean some people don't?

You would be surprised.

 

[KingGrump]

Most deaths do occur on blues, generally involving trees.
I suppose they could net off every run. Then people would just go faster. Hit it at the right angle and size person, you’re probably going over at speed.

Correction. Immediately adjacent to the blue. Usually the trees are not part of the run. I supposed one can say the skier was tree skiing. At least for the final fraction of a second of his/her life.

Seen the flying over the B-net thing couple seasons back on Shirley #5 at PT couple seasons back. Skier hit a rut. Got catapulted over the B-net. Luckily he landed between a tree and a large rock. Bent the tip on a brand new pair of demo ski. Shall we say he was both shaken and stirred.

 

[blue]

I don't want to get too off topic, but that is exactly what double black can mean, IMO. There are a lot of those slopes, especially if you're unfamiliar or don't know how to self arrest. Slope ratings are not universal, and generally (though not elways) double black will be the most difficult rating.

A lot of places will add "Expert terrain" or "Experts only" or "Cliffs" to indicate real "don't fall" areas, but if you're going into double black terrain, you should already be careful and realize there could be consequences and know what you're doing and getting into.

The only place I can think of that's decided to use something beyond double black is Big Sky, which has marked some runs triple black. The problem with that is the relativity of slope ratings being only applicable at that resort - what's a triple black, why this run and not that one, etc. I think current ratings and markings are plenty.

Meanwhile, Palisades and a few other places go the other way, and just mark all black terrain as single black, with some other "experts" or "cliffs" signs for particular places/runs.

I see your point. Double blacks vary a lot between resorts. Corbet's Couloir becomes very risky if one decides to jump, the standard right turn then left turn is more about conquering fear and nail that first right turn. Personally I wouldn't mind more descriptions on runs to indicate moguls, trees, cliffs.

If that is your desired definition of a beyond double black then most blue groomer with a kink or turn in it can qualify.

Very true. Overspeed crash on a blue is probably more likely to kill someone than someone taking a double black slow. I was referring to falling from standstill can lead to uncontrollable slide to the death. To use a hyperbole to demonstrate what I was referring to, imagine one falls on an oily slide that leads to a giant pit of fire. There's no getting out of that. Now imagine a run so icy and steep that it's almost impossible to stop yourself once you fall regardless of your speed, and is riddled with sharp exposed rocks. I'd hope there are extra warnings aside from what I'm used to with double blacks.

 

[crgildart]

The photo is staged. Icy patch in the parking lot area. There're some statements from the father that don't make sense. "During the slide, the lawsuit states, the boy’s skis, helmet and articles of clothing were ripped off as he “slid to the bottom of the run without stopping.” To me the helmet wasn't secured correctly. IDK it will be hard to prove a lift op said it's not icy.
View attachment 174976
This is the bottom of Summit on an icy day. Sharp edges and a light touch.

Parents will get a jury of mostly non skiers..

But. to a skier the question is something like... Was it a run that 99% of the time is pretty skiable by an advanced skier that today conditions were fall and you die due to extreme ice? A rain/sleet event or awful snowgun settings can cause that.. Those are reasons a run should be closed.. Pretty much anything else and go for it.. caveat emptor

 

[KingGrump]

I see your point. Double blacks vary a lot between resorts. Corbet's Couloir becomes very risky if one decides to jump, the standard right turn then left turn is more about conquering fear and nail that first right turn. Personally I wouldn't mind more descriptions on runs to indicate moguls, trees, cliffs.


Very true. Overspeed crash on a blue is probably more likely to kill someone than someone taking a double black slow. I was referring to falling from standstill can lead to uncontrollable slide to the death. To use a hyperbole to demonstrate what I was referring to, imagine one falls on an oily slide that leads to a giant pit of fire. There's no getting out of that. Now imagine a run so icy and steep that it's almost impossible to stop yourself once you fall regardless of your speed, and is riddled with sharp exposed rocks. I'd hope there are extra warnings aside from what I'm used to with double blacks.

There are double blacks and then there are double black.

Don't have to imagine.
Come to the next Taos gathering. Join the advance group and we'll take you sightseeing.

 

[crgildart]

There are double blacks and then there are double black.

Don't have to imagine.
Come to the next Taos gathering. Join the advance group and we'll take you sightseeing.

West Basin Ridge's the sketchiest place I ever skied there. Powder day, not sure the name of the trail we dropped in on but it required about 8 feet of mandatory air, cornice type drop. My friend didn't want to do it but we also didn't want to hike back to the other side of the lift.. He survived and was glad he did it. He lived in Alb for years and was supposed to be showing me around Taos and that was the first time anyone coaxed him to go try that ridge..

He also took me to Pajarito. He had more fun there. I love the history of that place, both really

 

[slowrider]

Parents will get a jury of mostly non skiers..

But. to a skier the question is something like... Was it a run that 99% of the time is pretty skiable by an advanced skier that today conditions were fall and you die due to extreme ice? A rain/sleet event or awful snowgun settings can cause that.. Those are reasons a run should be closed.. Pretty much anything else and go for it.. caveat emptor

Uneducated jury about skiing. What if I got picked? The young boys father made a bad decision. They could of down loaded or called for patrol. When you off load Summit there is a flat section on top before going down. It's a Blue run. A 9 yr old boy or for that matter any Intermediate has no business on Summit when it's icy.

 

[Andy Mink]

Uneducated jury about skiing.

Should it go to court it will be up to the defense attorney to make sure a good jury is picked. It will also be up to the defense attorney to make sure the jury is aware of the small print on the back of the ticket and what a "skier" should know.

 

[crgildart]

Uneducated jury about skiing. What if I got picked? The young boys father made a bad decision. They could of down loaded or called for patrol. When you off load Summit there is a flat section on top before going down. It's a Blue run. A 9 yr old boy or for that matter any Intermediate has no business on Summit when it's icy.

I made a similar mistake with my kid when he was about 8. It wasn't really bad but far enough beyond his confidence that he was panicking. I carried him between my legs down the roughly 400 vert of true blue before it mellowed out. We stopped to catch my breath about halfway down and off to the side. A patrol came up and checked in us. She carried our poles the rest of the way. Much appreciated! Kid was skiing legit icy blacks OK the previous season but this was the first day of the next. He wasn't ready for it yet. My bad..

 

[BLiP]

Can't see this ever going before a jury. They will settle for some larger-than-nominal amount that is much less than the $50mm claimed. Cheaper for the defense to settle for something that reasonably satisfies the plaintiff. Better for the plaintiff to get something rather than nothing. No one is happy, no one really wins. Tragic story all around.

 

[slowrider]

I think we've all been guilty of making an honest mistake with our children. I know I have. Lessoned learned. And that's what it sounds like in this tragedy. No amount of money will replace the young boys life. I've heard that both parents are lawyers.

 

[scott43]

I think we've all been guilty of making an honest mistake with our children. I know I have. Lessoned learned. And that's what it sounds like in this tragedy. No amount of money will replace the young boys life. I've heard that both parents are lawyers.

Amen brother. I think about that split second all the time.

 

[clong83]

Does Taos still have those signs instructing people hope to self arrest? This skill is unknown to so many.

Last season I assisted a larger number than usual from difficult situations. (Including digging out a completely buried woman who likely would have expired had I not seen her fall into a creek ravine) Several were over their heads on icy slopes. The first thing I ask is “do you know how to self arrest?”. They never do. Often they were, or were about to, talking their skis off to try to walk down!

If it is really icy, there are multiple places on blue runs at most resorts I ski where a slide on the ice could be deadly.

Slim Slidell is still around, and so are the signs.

Taos last year had a sign at the top of Kachina telling everyone to go down Main Street. It was toward the end of the season when they were starting to get some serious freeze/melt cycles even up high. The rest of the terrain was open, but the sign said "Better skiing behind you. Icy slide conditions ahead which could result is serious injury or death!"

I went ahead and skied past the sign and did one of the K-chutes, but holy cow they really weren't kidding. I thought I'd find a softer line in some of my regular spots. I also thought if it were really all that bad, they'd just close it. I took it as a standard warning meant to keep anyone unsure of themselves on the main run. But no. It was boilerplate. It was legit scary. But I can't say they didn't warn me. And that's the other sde of the coin. I see so many signs like "Unmarked obstacles!", "Experts only! <skull&crossbones>", "Avalanche terrain!", "Ski in pairs", that it's hard to know sometimes when they are just trying to keep the novices out of somewhere, and when it is legit scary somewhere. Lawsuits will probably only make that worse.

Anyway, regarding Mt. Bachelor, it's hard to know how well the ski area informed their guests on what the conditions were, or if conditions were bad enough that warnings really ought to have been in place. I am generally opposed to lawsuits like this, but I can understand that sometimes, negligence does actually happen. I'll leave that for the courts to decide. In either case, my heart goes out to the family. Just a terrible tragedy.

 

[blue]

There are double blacks and then there are double black.

Don't have to imagine.
Come to the next Taos gathering. Join the advance group and we'll take you sightseeing.

I hope I can!

 

[François Pugh]

I don't want to get too off topic, but that is exactly what double black can mean, IMO. There are a lot of those slopes, especially if you're unfamiliar or don't know how to self arrest. Slope ratings are not universal, and generally (though not elways) double black will be the most difficult rating.

A lot of places will add "Expert terrain" or "Experts only" or "Cliffs" to indicate real "don't fall" areas, but if you're going into double black terrain, you should already be careful and realize there could be consequences and know what you're doing and getting into.

The only place I can think of that's decided to use something beyond double black is Big Sky, which has marked some runs triple black. The problem with that is the relativity of slope ratings being only applicable at that resort - what's a triple black, why this run and not that one, etc. I think current ratings and markings are plenty.

Meanwhile, Palisades and a few other places go the other way, and just mark all black terrain as single black, with some other "experts" or "cliffs" signs for particular places/runs.

Now that I think about it, green, blue, black, and experts only is good enough; if you are an expert you can decide for yourself how easy or hard to ski the run is. I had been ignoring the ratings for decades, but learned much to my chagrin one day when skiing with my daughter that ignoring those signs can provoke family discord.

 

[François Pugh]

Yup, Slim's office is right off chair #2.

View attachment 174987

You should always hang onto at least one pole; hands and feet won't do much, if anything, on ice.

 

[KingGrump]

You should always hang onto at least one pole; hands and feet won't do much, if anything, on ice.

You do know Slim is a dummy, right?

 

[scott43]

You do know Slim is a dummy, right?

Well he fell down right beside the lift. Can't be that smart...

 

[slowrider]

A self-arrest is performed using one of your ski poles. As you are sliding, roll onto your stomach. Continue to grip the handle on one pole and with your other hand grasp the pole near its basket. Gradually use that lower hand to dig the pole tip into the snow.

 

[KingGrump]

Well he fell down right beside the left. Can't be that smart...

Not that kind of dummy. Dummy.