My first chairlift rescue after 50+ years skiing.

[bitflogger]

Yesterday was my turn for something I always wondered about. My new pals from chair #20 got some extra adventure from being on highest 3 chairs and a few amateur patrollers struggling until a more competent associates got there. Their gun to shoot the line over cable was a joke and that was a lot of time added.

It could have been worse. We were in stream of snowmaking for an hour+ before they turned it off. I was glad to have a rescue but not not pleased with their getting the most competent people to highest chairs last. The patrollers who kept trying to use the stupid gun that kept failing didn't have the guts or brains to climb the tower, and they were yelling at people trying to use phones to communicate why they were lost for 2.5 hours. I think they feared they're not being enough practiced or competent for the highest chairs and tower or their stupid gun toy being put on social media.

My advice after this. Not my problem within it all, but don't put off the possible urge to use a toilet or tree at ground level. Dress warmer than you might think is appropriate. Be mindful that patrollers and ski area staff might not all be as trained as you think. If they're not making good decisions or moves stay calm and coach them to get someone with the right mindset and courage to help them.

 

[cragginshred]

Yesterday was my turn for something I always wondered about. My new pals from chair #20 got some extra adventure from being on highest 3 chairs and a few amateur patrollers struggling until a more competent associates got there. Their gun to shoot the line over cable was a joke and that was a lot of time added.

It could have been worse. We were in stream of snowmaking for an hour+ before they turned it off. I was glad to have a rescue but not not pleased with their getting the most competent people to highest chairs last. The patrollers who kept trying to use the stupid gun that kept failing didn't have the guts or brains to climb the tower, and they were yelling at people trying to use phones to communicate why they were lost for 2.5 hours. I think they feared they're not being enough practiced or competent for the highest chairs and tower or their stupid gun toy being put on social media.

My advice after this. Not my problem within it all, but don't put off the possible urge to use a toilet or tree at ground level. Dress warmer than you might think is appropriate. Be mindful that patrollers and ski area staff might not all be as trained as you think. If they're not making good decisions or moves stay calm and coach them to get someone with the right mindset and courage to help them.

Can you explain what actually happened? Hard to follow other than you needed a rescue from the lift. Did the power go out or what happened? What did you mean by 'they were lost for 2.5 hours'?
You said they climbed the towers then did they lower you via rappel or ??

 

[Jilly]

I've been stuck on a chair for 1/2 hour with some kids too. Patrol and Info guides came by and checked on us. The Info-guide knew me, and said just keep everyone calm. But that's the worst. I know they train weekly at Tremblant for chair and gondola evac. You can see the Station on the way from Nansen to the TGV.

I would like to assume others do the same.

So what caused all of this? I get the phone calls to people. "We're stuck on the chair, see ya later!" So they were "lost of 2.5 hours".
They couldn't use aux power to get you off?

 

[jt10000]

We were in stream of snowmaking for an hour+ before they turned it off.

That's horrendous and possibly very dangerous.

 

[Sibhusky]

I remember hanging for 45 minutes in a snowmaking gun's target are at Cannon in my 20's (that's 50 years ago). I had stretch ski pants on. That was the last time I wore those things! Then we had to take a T-bar still to get to a lodge to warm up. It was also the first time I saw anyone with frostbite (not me). Some guy's face was half white wax-looking.

 

[bitflogger]

Can you explain what actually happened? Hard to follow other than you needed a rescue from the lift. Did the power go out or what happened? What did you mean by 'they were lost for 2.5 hours'?
You said they climbed the towers then did they lower you via rappel or ??

Our understanding was their "e brake deployed and damaged a gear box". It was everyone on the lift needing to go down from the rescue/rappel rig.

The lost for 2.5 hours meant some were trying to communicate with phones to others. The patroller who kept messing up with his gun thing and didn't have the brains or balls to climb the tower was angry at people with phones probably thinking his failing was being recorded.

It worked out but it was really obvious where they could do better for a few matters that could have been worse. I'm giving the head of patrol and resort owner benefit of the doubt and will send a simple email hoping they get the correct understanding.

 

[blackke17]

wow,. that sounds freaking miserable!

 

[Unpiste]

The patroller who kept messing up with his gun thing and didn't have the brains or balls to climb the tower…

I wonder whether this could be an issue with equipment and/or training. Patrol doesn't normally climb towers, and patrol getting themselves into a dangerous situation they may not have trained for isn't going to help. It's hard to put this in perspective without knowing what kind of ski area this was. (Patrol at a smaller area isn't necessarily going to have much training with rope rescues in general.)

Obviously plenty could have been done better. For one, the first thing that should have happened was someone scanning the entire lift line for hazards. Shutting off snowmaking should have been an obvious first step. Saving higher chairs for later may have been the best decision they could have made, unfortunately, leaving fewer people out in the cold for longer.

I'd imagine the concern about phones was due to safety. You don't want people on the chair dropping anything on the rescuers. A large phone could hit pretty hard coming from high enough.

 

[cragginshred]

What resort?

 

[James]

I'd imagine the concern about phones was due to safety. You don't want people on the chair dropping anything on the rescuers.

Oh come on. That’s just completely absurd.
I mean are they that dumb to stand directly under a chair?? Maybe they should’ve asked people to drop their poles too. So they didn’t get hit when they dropped them.

He didn’t want to be videoed. Nothing wrong with that. But he’s sol.

 

[jt10000]

I'd imagine the concern about phones was due to safety. You don't want people on the chair dropping anything on the rescuers.

That's funny.

 

[Unpiste]

Oh come on. That’s just completely absurd.
I mean are they that dumb to stand directly under a chair?? Maybe they should’ve asked people to drop their poles too. So they didn’t get hit when they dropped them.

He didn’t want to be videoed. Nothing wrong with that. But he’s sol.

I've never witnessed a chairlift rescue in person, but look at any picture or video. How many people being rescued do you see holding poles?

And please, tell us, how does patrol get up to the chair to secure anyone without standing directly under it? (Or are you suggesting patrol just throws the rope up and issues verbal instructions? Talk about absurd.)

Clearly this situation was mishandled in various ways. That's not an excuse to throw wild accusations around at a bunch of people who ultimately seem to have successfully rescued everyone involved.

Try putting yourself in patrol's position. And remember, management is ultimately the one deciding what training the resort allocates time and resources for, not you.

That's funny.

What's "funny" about having a half-pound brick land on your shoulder while trying to perform a rescue? Do enlighten us.

Even if patrol's own safety wasn't a concern, what was the weather? Maybe patrol was worried about loss of heat due to exposed hands and fingers? There are any number of explanations that don't have to be "patrol was incompetent and didn't want to be filmed", and @bitflogger is the only one here who could possibly have enough context to make that judgement.

 

[bitflogger]

I wonder whether this could be an issue with equipment and/or training. Patrol doesn't normally climb towers, and patrol getting themselves into a dangerous situation they may not have trained for isn't going to help. It's hard to put this in perspective without knowing what kind of ski area this was. (Patrol at a smaller area isn't necessarily going to have much training with rope rescues in general.)

Obviously plenty could have been done better. For one, the first thing that should have happened was someone scanning the entire lift line for hazards. Shutting off snowmaking should have been an obvious first step. Saving higher chairs for later may have been the best decision they could have made, unfortunately, leaving fewer people out in the cold for longer.

I'd imagine the concern about phones was due to safety. You don't want people on the chair dropping anything on the rescuers. A large phone could hit pretty hard coming from high enough.

I think the phones issue started as a liability matter and got personal when the patrollers who struggled with their gun got embarrassed and didn't want to be recorded on social media.

For dropped phones, see my tip on toilets with the understand something other than phones fell from some chairs. So did poles and backpacks.

I would prefer to not name the resort feeling it was a few patrollers and not all. The owner known for a temper made matters worse but other staff and the competent patrollers - really all of them - did well overall. It was very obvious it was easier to rescue people 20 to 50 feet off the ground vs near one tower and a few chairs over a drop and bowl area.

Hopefully my simple with nice tone email on two issues will be read and acted on, and everyone here should know their turn for this could occur. Carry some glove liners. Think twice if you want to unzip the hood on your coat. Stay chill and don't let stress or others get to you.

 

[Unpiste]

I think it's important to remember that ultimately the handling of this situation falls on the resort's management, and by extension, its owner. If there are individual patrollers who weren't able to handle the situation they were in, then either they should have had the assistance they needed, or they shouldn't have been in that position at all. I don't think it really helps anyone to avoid naming the resort. What wouldn't be helpful or appropriate, at least without a lot more context, would be to name the individual patrollers.

If the resort was really more concerned about liability than rescuing people, that's completely inappropriate. I'd hesitate to make that judgement without at least having some clarification from the patrollers involved, though. It's easy to imagine we know what's going through someone else's head, when really the truth is something else entirely.

If the patrollers were having this much trouble getting a rope up for the rescue, then it certainly sounds like something was missing from their training. That's not likely something most patrollers have much if any control over. You can practice a lot of things on your own time, but not rescues involving resort equipment.

 

[James]

And please, tell us, how does patrol get up to the chair to secure anyone without standing directly under it? (Or are you suggesting patrol just throws the rope up and issues verbal instructions? Talk about absurd.)

Well, if it was occurring during rescue, that’s one thing, and would be justified obviously. It wasn’t during rescue, just yelling from a distance.

Chairlift manufacturers should be addressing this with better equipment for rescue. In VT they also have a fishing pole device to throw the rope over.
I witnessed an evac in Europe, and they did it from above. But that’s much more specialized rope/equipment use for the rescuers than standard patrol.

 

[crgildart]

This happened at Beech Mountain NC last year.. They stopped the lift BECAUSE of the snow gun hydrant failure :-(



They were there for awhile too

 

[jt10000]

What's "funny" about having a half-pound brick land on your shoulder while trying to perform a rescue?

Yes, in the final stages, the people in the particular chair being evacuated probably needed to remove their skis and poles, and not be futzying with their phones or anything that could fall or distract anyone. But during the whole 2.5 hours no way were patrollers directly under all the people with phones? No way.

That's absurd, particularly in light of this from the OP:

they were yelling at people trying to use phones to communicate why they were lost for 2.5 hours.

 

[pais alto]

(… patrol just throws the rope up and issues verbal instructions? Talk about absurd.)

Absurd in your judgement or not, that’s how it worked where I patrolled. Rope over the haul line, a seat (with a webbing safety strap) hauled up, the rescuee briefed on procedure slips the seat under them, puts the safety strap on, and is lowered by the rescuer using a rope brake system.

Rescuers had to practice the briefing regularly, judged on clarity, and completeness. If someone needed direct assistance a patroller used ascension gear to go up to the chair.

We practiced regularly with the gun, as well as throwing a light line over the haul line, which was used to haul the rescue rope over. Moisture (like from snow!) in the gun system could make it fail.

The OP story reflects why lift evacuation was practiced extensively, regularly, and religiously where I worked. The guy pissed off about the phones was probably embarassed, rightfully so.

 

[Unpiste]

Yes, in the final stages, the people in the particular chair being evacuated probably needed to remove their skis and poles, and not be futzying with their phones or anything that could fall or distract anyone. But during the whole 2.5 hours no way were patrollers directly under all the people with phones? No way.

That's absurd, particularly in light of this from the OP:

they were yelling at people trying to use phones to communicate why they were lost for 2.5 hours

We know very little of the timing, so it's impossible to say whether phone use may have been a safety concern for people on the ground. I also already mentioned possible safety concerns for the people on the chairs, and we have a literal example earlier in the thread of someone winding up with frostbite. It's perfectly reasonable to worry about injuries related to the cold when guests are dressed to spend maybe 10 minutes on the lift and don't necessarily have the experience to realize when they might be getting themselves into trouble. Even mild hypothermia could seriously complicate a rescue attempt.

Why are you so quick to dismiss legitimate concerns and paint patrol as the bad guys when we simply don't know? We don't know how far patrol was from the chair when they were yelling or when they were yelling. We don't really know why they were yelling, though I think it's safe to assume patrol had no interest in stopping people from communicating their location to friends and family. All we know is the OP's perspective on the situation, which is important, but also necessarily subjective.

Absurd in your judgement or not, that’s how it worked where I patrolled. Rope over the haul line, a seat (with a webbing safety strap) hauled up, the rescuee briefed on procedure slips the seat under them, puts the safety strap on, and is lowered by the rescuer using a rope brake system.

This is interesting. I wouldn't have assumed that there was equipment capable of lowering guests to the ground safely enough without direct supervision that this is something resorts would want to risk.

 

[scott43]

I find it interesting that we bitch about quality of patrollers who are so poorly paid. And we bitch about lift prices. My fire buddy who is qualified for high angle rescue trains that monthly and gets paid $130k a year. What's a patroller getting paid?? Sure lots of them love the work... Enough to get the job done 100% of the time ?? Dunno..