Narrow tele boots?

[Wendy]

Years ago, I took a few tele lessons and really liked it. I learned enough to make turns down green runs, and even bought a pair of Scarpa boots and used skis. I didn’t stick with it because I simply didn’t have anyone else to ski with while I was learning, unfortunately. But my tele skiing neighbors are convincing me to give it another go. I did enjoy the “lunge” and I feel it ultimately will be healthier for my knees.

But the issue is boots. Most tele boots don‘t come as narrow as some alpine models. And, I’d love to be able to use NTN bindings because of their ability to release, unlIke standard cable bindings. But...it appears that NTN compatible tele boots are even wider lasted than the traditional ones.

I do have a boot fitter/pedorthist who has fitted tele boots and has some familiarity; I will visit him in the fall. But I could use some additional advice in choosing a boot, as that will affect binding choice. (I also will need ski advice - I can remount a pair of existing skis).

Any ideas for a good fitting boot that will help me progress? I do have Nórdica Doberman lace up liners that *MAY* be able to be used, if they allow for a decent flex,.

 

[Scruffy]

I use to be a Scarpa boot person years ago, had many scarpa boots. When I switched to NTN I thought it would be a no brainer to choose Scarpa TX. When I tried then on at Basecamp outfitters in Killington, my feet were swimming in them. I have narrow low volume feet. Mike, the owner of Basecamp, told me Scarpa switched lasts for NTN for some unknown reason, so he fit me in a Crispi Evo Shiver. That was a while ago now though, so I don't know if the Crispis have changed.

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Here's a review on Backcountrytalk from a few years ago.

Crispi Shiver NTN Boots Revew - Backcountry Talk

 

[Mark1975]

I have been thinking of getting a new tele setup recently for no other reason for something different to do. I haven't decided at this point. This is what I can tell you from recently trying on NTN boots:

Scarpa TX Pro / TX Comp: Listed at 102mm wide. They fit me like a VERY generous 102mm wide and seem to have a lower instep height. Very high quality construction. Great boots IF they fit your foot shape. Some skiers complain that the TX Pro is too soft in the bellows for its cuff flex. The TX Comp is stiffer all around and the bellow flex seems to better match the cuff flex.

Crispi EVO / EVO WorldCup: Listed at 102mm wide. However, these fit more snug in the forefoot and have a higher instep height than the Scarpa boots. Good construction, but not as "finished" as the Scarpa boots. The EVO is similar to the Scarpa TX Comp. The EVO WorldCup is the stiffest tele boot made.

Scott Voodoo NTN: Listed at 100mm wide. I haven't found one locally to try on. Reports say they have the highest instep volume (maybe too generous unless you have a very high/thick instep) I also read testers did not like the buckle placement (heel hold down not as good as Scarpa/Crispi). Testers also say the Voodoo's bellow flex is even softer than the Scarpa TX Pro.

The other thing you need to think about with NTN boots: Do they have tech toe inserts? Several new bindings have come out (M Equipment Meidjo, 22 Designs Lynx) that use a side pin Dynafit style toe coupled with the NTN underfoot "claw". Many industry insiders claim this setup is the future over cage toe telemark bindings. If you go with Scarpa, the TX Pro has the inserts, the TX Comp does not. The Crispi boots and the Scott Voodoo have the inserts in the side of the boot toe.

If you want Scarpa in a more narrow last you will need to stay with the 75mm tele norm Scarpa T1 which is 100mm wide. I think the T2 75 mm boots also went to the 102 mm wide last.

Telemark is a lot like hard boot snowboarding. It is a niche winter sport, so not a lot of boot choices.

Try everything on is the best I can tell you.

 

[pais alto]

Scarpa T1s are the narrowest 75 mm binding boots. I think Crispi makes the narrowest NTN boots. Curiously, the Scarpa NTN boots are pretty wide.

edited because I saw the wish for NTN. @Mark1975 nailed it.

 

[Wendy]

I have been thinking of getting a new tele setup recently for no other reason for something different to do. I haven't decided at this point. This is what I can tell you from recently trying on NTN boots:

Scarpa TX Pro / TX Comp: Listed at 102mm wide. They fit me like a VERY generous 102mm wide and seem to have a lower instep height. Very high quality construction. Great boots IF they fit your foot shape. Some skiers complain that the TX Pro is too soft in the bellows for its cuff flex. The TX Comp is stiffer all around and the bellow flex seems to better match the cuff flex.

Crispi EVO / EVO WorldCup: Listed at 102mm wide. However, these fit more snug in the forefoot and have a higher instep height than the Scarpa boots. Good construction, but not as "finished" as the Scarpa boots. The EVO is similar to the Scarpa TX Comp. The EVO WorldCup is the stiffest tele boot made.

Scott Voodoo NTN: Listed at 100mm wide. I haven't found one locally to try on. Reports say they have the highest instep volume (maybe too generous unless you have a very high/thick instep) I also read testers did not like the buckle placement (heel hold down not as good as Scarpa/Crispi). Testers also say the Voodoo's bellow flex is even softer than the Scarpa TX Pro.

The other thing you need to think about with NTN boots: Do they have tech toe inserts? Several new bindings have come out (M Equipment Meidjo, 22 Designs Lynx) that use a side pin Dynafit style toe coupled with the NTN underfoot "claw". Many industry insiders claim this setup is the future over cage toe telemark bindings. If you go with Scarpa, the TX Pro has the inserts, the TX Comp does not. The Crispi boots and the Scott Voodoo have the inserts in the side of the boot toe.

If you want Scarpa in a more narrow last you will need to stay with the 75mm tele norm Scarpa T1 which is 100mm wide. I think the T2 75 mm boots also went to the 102 mm wide last.

Telemark is a lot like hard boot snowboarding. It is a niche winter sport, so not a lot of boot choices.

Try everything on is the best I can tell you.

Thanks! Yeah, I’m either going to have to try on stuff at a good outfitter (I could use some recommendations in the northeast/midAtlantic) . My boot fitter simply recommends a few boots and the client purchases them from somewhere where they can be returned, bring them to the boot fitter, then he assists the client in choosing the correct boot. He’s very good at crafting modifications and has all kinds of specialized equipment for doing so. I’ll just need to decide if I just go that route, or go to an outfitter first who is very familiar with tele boots.

Too bad there isn’t the selection of tele boots as there is with AT.

 

[Mark1975]

Good luck trying to find a shop that has a selection of telemark boots! In my neck of the woods (New England) the go to places to are Base Camp Outfitters at Killington and the two Fey Brothers shops. One brother has a shop in southern NH, the other is in CT. The Fey's also have a online site called Telemarkdown but the web address is: https://aspinockwoods.com. REI used to carry telemark boots, but I haven't been to one in years. Happy Tunes way up in Maine by Sugarloaf I believe still stocks boots. There are probably a few other shops around, but the pickings for shops that carry tele is pretty slim.

I don't know if there is a easy way to find this out. You could go to the Scarpa/Crispi/Scott website and do a dealer search, but those companies manufacture other sporting goods and just because a shop is one of their dealers doesn't mean they carry telemark boots. You might just have to start calling around.

As far as skis, you can mount tele bindings to any alpine ski. Flat skis without a binding plate are the easiest, but if the ski comes with a plate you can always remove it, plug the holes, then mount the tele binding. The only thing that doesn't work well is really stiff FIS race skis. On the Telemark World Cup, they use softer "Tweener" GS skis in the 175 to 182 cm length because the true FIS alpine GS skis are simply too stiff.

 

[Wendy]

Good luck trying to find a shop that has a selection of telemark boots! In my neck of the woods (New England) the go to places to are Base Camp Outfitters at Killington and the two Fey Brothers shops. One brother has a shop in southern NH, the other is in CT. The Fey's also have a online site called Telemarkdown but the web address is: https://aspinockwoods.com. REI used to carry telemark boots, but I haven't been to one in years. Happy Tunes way up in Maine by Sugarloaf I believe still stocks boots. There are probably a few other shops around, but the pickings for shops that carry tele is pretty slim.

I don't know if there is a easy way to find this out. You could go to the Scarpa/Crispi/Scott website and do a dealer search, but those companies manufacture other sporting goods and just because a shop is one of their dealers doesn't mean they carry telemark boots. You might just have to start calling around.

As far as skis, you can mount tele bindings to any alpine ski. Flat skis without a binding plate are the easiest, but if the ski comes with a plate you can always remove it, plug the holes, then mount the tele binding. The only thing that doesn't work well is really stiff FIS race skis. On the Telemark World Cup, they use softer "Tweener" GS skis in the 175 to 182 cm length because the true FIS alpine GS skis are simply too stiff.

Yes, I realize I’m going to have to travel out of state for boots. I’ve looked at the sites you mention; Happy Tunes is not far from a friend’s house in Maine and I’ll probably call Lionel there to check if he carries them. I didn’t know that Telemarkdown has a brick and mortar shop in CT...good to know. I’ll probably end up at the CT shop or at Base Camp Outfitters in KillIngton - I’ve already reached out and heard back from them. My other option is High Peaks Cyclery in Lake Placid, a shop I have a lot of experience with for skate skis.

 

[Wendy]

Good luck trying to find a shop that has a selection of telemark boots! In my neck of the woods (New England) the go to places to are Base Camp Outfitters at Killington and the two Fey Brothers shops. One brother has a shop in southern NH, the other is in CT. The Fey's also have a online site called Telemarkdown but the web address is: https://aspinockwoods.com. REI used to carry telemark boots, but I haven't been to one in years. Happy Tunes way up in Maine by Sugarloaf I believe still stocks boots. There are probably a few other shops around, but the pickings for shops that carry tele is pretty slim.

I don't know if there is a easy way to find this out. You could go to the Scarpa/Crispi/Scott website and do a dealer search, but those companies manufacture other sporting goods and just because a shop is one of their dealers doesn't mean they carry telemark boots. You might just have to start calling around.

As far as skis, you can mount tele bindings to any alpine ski. Flat skis without a binding plate are the easiest, but if the ski comes with a plate you can always remove it, plug the holes, then mount the tele binding. The only thing that doesn't work well is really stiff FIS race skis. On the Telemark World Cup, they use softer "Tweener" GS skis in the 175 to 182 cm length because the true FIS alpine GS skis are simply too stiff.

I corresponded with Martin Fey via email and will go see him in the fall, once new inventory comes in. From poking around their website, it seems that the CT shop has a good variety of boots and a very knowledgeable owner.

 

[Mark1975]

Wendy, one other thing I noticed when trying on boots at several shops...for some reason they all tried to convince me to upsize my shell size (on top of the wider NTN lasts!)
Ok, when I went in I explained to them I already have (a totally beat up) 75 mm norm setup, so I know what I am looking for in shell length. I use this setup only for resort use when not alpine skiing. Besides, not many places in the East for long back country tours or skinning.
When alpine skiing, I have my foot shoved into a 150 flex Lange ZC plug ground out to to race fit. I sized my tele boots slightly larger, but they are a performance fit. I made it clear I did not want to go larger than that, especially with the wider NTN shells. All of them kept having me try boots a full shell size larger than that. They kept saying "you will get toe crunch when skinning or touring. Hello! I just said they would be for resort downhill use only, and I know how I like ski boots to fit! Anyway, when I convinced them to bring out the shell size I wanted, now we were talking about something I may upgrade to.
So, if you know what you are looking for in a shell fit, or if you are going to use it for downhill resort use, don't be shy to tell them that or you may end up with a boot that is super comfy, but useless for downhill skiing on eastern hardpack.

 

[ted]

It will not be easy to accomplish, but your best option may an F3 with the Michael bolt on duckbutts. Dig around on Dosties site for more info. I just scored a pair of F3, duckbutts on order, and it fits my narrow high instep foot really well.

 

[Mark1975]

One other thing...It seems like all the NTN boots come with totally craptastic "self forming" thermoform liners. For my current 75 mm boots, I ditched the stock liner for a lace up race liner. If I buy new NTN boots, I plan on replacing the thermoform liners with lace up ZipFits. I would definitely bring your Doberman lace ups for any fitting. The thermo liners that come with the boots really don't "self form" very well, and will need heated to get a accurate sense on how the shell fits. Even at that, they are a big step down from the top of the line Intuition liners that must be heat formed prior to use.

 

[Wendy]

It will not be easy to accomplish, but your best option may an F3 with the Michael bolt on duckbutts. Dig around on Dosties site for more info. I just scored a pair of F3, duckbutts on order, and it fits my narrow high instep foot really well.

Can you tell me what an F3 is?

 

[Wendy]

One other thing...It seems like all the NTN boots come with totally craptastic "self forming" thermoform liners. For my current 75 mm boots, I ditched the stock liner for a lace up race liner. If I buy new NTN boots, I plan on replacing the thermoform liners with lace up ZipFits. I would definitely bring your Doberman lace ups for any fitting. The thermo liners that come with the boots really don't "self form" very well, and will need heated to get a accurate sense on how the shell fits. Even at that, they are a big step down from the top of the line Intuition liners that must be heat formed prior to use.

THIS is so good to know! I was planning on bringing my liners along, but knowing that that option isn’t a pipe dream (I was thinking someone would say, “NO! You can’t you a lace up liner with a tele boot.”).

 

[Mark1975]

THIS is so good to know! I was planning on bringing my liners along, but knowing that that option isn’t a pipe dream (I was thinking someone would say, “NO! You can’t you a lace up liner with a tele boot.”).

Tele boots are very soft compared to alpine boots, so the liner play a huge role in how the boots fit and their performance. If you are into long back country tours, you want a liner that is light weight and gives a large range of backward motion when striding. If you are using the boots for downhill resort skiing, you really want a good stiff alpine liner. I had the chance to examine a boot used on the World Cup race tour, and the racer modified the heck out of it. Full alpine race liner, and they removed the walk mode lever and just bolted the shell and cuff together at the forward lean angle they wanted.

 

[Mark1975]

Can you tell me what an F3 is?

It was an older Scarpa AT boot that had bellows like a tele boot. No longer in production. I have seen posts that people have been finding them used on Ebay and modifying them with a bolt on NTN "duckbutt" to allow them to be used in NTN bindings. I don't know a lot about AT boots, or this modification, so maybe someone else can fill in the details.

I can't fit my feet into most AT boots. They tend to be very light and thin, so not much to grind. It takes my bootfitter 3-5 hours just to grind out a thick wall plug boot to get my foot in! I think that is why Scrapa and Crispi went to a wider last on NTN boots - so more people's feet can fit into them. Tele boots are very thin, plus you are dealing with the bellows, so they are more difficult to grind/punch than alpine boots. However, I think Scarpa might have went too far on the width unless you have truly wide feet. I have heard reports of people adding stiff foam to the outside of the liner along the toes to get the Scarpa boot fit more narrow feet. The Scarpa tele boots do however have a very nice heel pocket. Between that, and their excellent buckles, most people can get the back of their foot secure. The question is what modifications are needed in the front if you have a more narrow foot?

 

[James]

There’s Mountain Ops in Stowe.
Gear xchange in Burlington.
Possibly Alpine Options in Sugarbush.

Telemark Boots | Outdoor Gear Exchange

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[Paul Lutes]

Wendy -
Excellent advise and info from Mark1975, especially regarding upgrading the stock NTN liners. What's your fixed heel background? I seem to recall your being a strong alpine skier; are you planning to free-heel on or off piste, or both? Keep us posted on your boot adventures!

 

[Wendy]

Wendy -
Excellent advise and info from Mark1975, especially regarding upgrading the stock NTN liners. What's your fixed heel background? I seem to recall your being a strong alpine skier; are you planning to free-heel on or off piste, or both? Keep us posted on your boot adventures!

Hey Paul,
I’ve been alpine skiing since 1997. Some on and off years but pretty consistent since around 2008. I’d say I’m a pretty average skier (compared to folks on here!); I like bumps and trees and my technique is an evolving process. I plan on tele-skiing on piste for now, since I’m in PA and our off-piste requires good snows (good this year). But i do get out west and we will be living in the West starting in 2023 so I hope to be able to venture off piste there. I’m also hoping to do a little easy skinning up in Maine (on piste) with friends next winter. I’ll keep you posted on how things turn out!

@Mark1975 I talked to Marty Fey from aspinockwoods (Telemarkdown.com); he is sending me last year’s Crispi Shiver that he has, to try. If it works, awesome, if not, it at least gives me a point of reference. He was super helpful and great on the phone.

 

[ted]

F3 was a AT boot with bellows. Long out of production.
Rabbit hole-

Scarpa F3 is the best touring tele boot. Fight me. - Backcountry Talk

I now have double-digit days touring on F1's and F3's, in addition to TXP's and my old T2's. I have tried to get used to the F1, which seems to be a cult classic. But I have decided the F3 is just a better boot. Here's why. On paper, the light weight and great ROM of the F1 makes it an...

www.backcountrytalk.com

Scarpa F3 is the best touring tele boot. Fight me. - Backcountry Talk

I now have double-digit days touring on F1's and F3's, in addition to TXP's and my old T2's. I have tried to get used to the F1, which seems to be a cult classic. But I have decided the F3 is just a better boot. Here's why. On paper, the light weight and great ROM of the F1 makes it an...

www.backcountrytalk.com

Start with Martin first.

 

[Wendy]

F3 was a AT boot with bellows. Long out of production.
Rabbit hole-

Scarpa F3 is the best touring tele boot. Fight me. - Backcountry Talk

I now have double-digit days touring on F1's and F3's, in addition to TXP's and my old T2's. I have tried to get used to the F1, which seems to be a cult classic. But I have decided the F3 is just a better boot. Here's why. On paper, the light weight and great ROM of the F1 makes it an...

www.backcountrytalk.com

Scarpa F3 is the best touring tele boot. Fight me. - Backcountry Talk

I now have double-digit days touring on F1's and F3's, in addition to TXP's and my old T2's. I have tried to get used to the F1, which seems to be a cult classic. But I have decided the F3 is just a better boot. Here's why. On paper, the light weight and great ROM of the F1 makes it an...

www.backcountrytalk.com

Start with Martin first.

Oy, that’s a rabbit hole.

Yup, Martin was super on the phone. It’s good to find a shop owner not that far away with so much knowledge.