Narrow tele boots?

[Wendy]

Honestly though, all teley boots feel like slippers compared to an alpine boot. IMHO, it's an exercise in futility to even think about a direct comparison, especially as they do different things. The Scarpa bellows are great, but the wider last of the NTN models was a deal breaker.

That is true. They are definitely more comfortable and I miss that. The yellow Crispi does feel good on my foot. My next door neighbor said she only buckles down her cuffs, and the rest of her foot is loose. She also tele skis in walk mode. The “suffering” I’m referring to is just the agony of getting the right boot and the hoops to jump through to get there.

Also, the motion of tele, the flexing required to get into the tele “lunge”, and that rhythmic motion, is much better for my knees because it requires a greater range of motion. Having my knee in a more fixed position (relatively speaking) in an alpine setup creates stiffness. When I get out of my alpine boots, the first thing I do is stretch and bend my legs over and over, and when I get home, go for a bike ride to loosen things up.

 

[markojp]

Yeah, I'm not in the ski in walk mode camp, but my teley boots feel like they're in walkmode compared to my alpine shoes.

 

[markojp]

FWIW, I never do a 'lunge'. I think more about progressively pressing/loading the ball of my rear foot and actively tipping the inside ski to the little toe edge. CoM is between the front and rear foot... think leaf spring legs rather than lunging.

 

[Wendy]

FWIW, I never do a 'lunge'. I think more about progressively pressing/loading the ball of my rear foot and actively tipping the inside ski to the little toe edge. CoM is between the front and rear foot... think leaf spring legs rather than lunging.

I like this! Thanks!

 

[Wendy]

I have an appointment with bootfitter/pedorthist Billy Kaplan next Friday April 2.

Another trying on of both Crispis has told me this:
The older model (yellow) has WAY better buckles. The green, newer model‘s buckles are harder to adjust.
I swear the instep on the newer model is higher. WTF? The stock footbed of the older model is pretty decent, however, I always use custom footbeds. But the ones in the green boots are basically flat pieces of shit which hinder determining how the boot fits. Heel hold in the unmolded liners of the yellow boots is WAY better, too. There’s a heel pocket there. There isn’t a true heel pocket in the green ones. It’s like the bottom of a beer can, LOL, and even inserting a molded footbed in there doesn’t help much.

The bellows of the yellow boots flex better over my toes.

Is it possible that Crispi wrecked a good boot with those changes? I don’t think I’m completely clueless, and I’m thinking it’s just not just the size difference, though I admit I need the help of an experienced fitter.

Since I have till next Friday for my fitting, I’m going to try the Scarpa TXPro Women’s NTN boot. I know you all said it’s very wide, but I just want another comparison to the Crispi. It won’t hurt and it’ll certainly give me some more information.

@markojp , can you articulate more clearly how the fit of a tele boot should feel? What I’m feeling in these yellow Crispis is decent heel hold that needs a little work, enough toe room to wiggle my toes and bend the bellows, a comfortable yet firm cuff that sits at a great place on my shin, and decent around the instep but probably also needing some modification (typical for me in any ski boot). I can sit in these boots and walk in them comfortably without pain.

 

[markojp]

@markojp , can you articulate more clearly how the fit of a tele boot should feel? What I’m feeling in these yellow Crispis is decent heel hold that needs a little work, enough toe room to wiggle my toes and bend the bellows, a comfortable yet firm cuff that sits at a great place on my shin, and decent around the instep but probably also needing some modification (typical for me in any ski boot). I can sit in these boots and walk in them comfortably without pain.

That sounds about perfect! In telemark, everything in the system lacks the precision of a dialed in alpine set up. I suppose the WC telemark crew has a different experience and view, but that's not us. Anyhow, the heel pocket in both the crispi and scarpa's are much larger than my Alpine boots, but the instep works on the Crispi's, as does the lower cuff buckle, so heel hold is good. I use an older custom footbed that bends in at the ball and works fine, and heel lifts so everything feels good in the heels and matches my range of motion, but all that stuff your fitter will sort out with you, and you have a great one! I've always used an intuition power wrap in my tele boots, and toured a lot in the old black and yellow (bumblebee) Scarpa T-1's and red T-Races with them without issue. They probably do fill some space that my alpine boots just don't have, but so far, so good in the Crispi's. But man o' man, the walk mode in the EVO WC really is pretty useless... the ankle doesn't open at all. I think I'd still try to tour in them though as they ski very well both telemark and alpine parallel and are no heavier than the boots they replaced. For really early dust on grass stuff though, It'd be fun to have a super light NNN-BC set up.

 

[Wendy]

That sounds about perfect! In telemark, everything in the system lacks the precision of a dialed in alpine set up. I suppose the WC telemark crew has a different experience and view, but that's not us. Anyhow, the heel pocket in both the crispi and scarpa's are much larger than my Alpine boots, but the instep works on the Crispi's, as does the lower cuff buckle, so heel hold is good. I use an older custom footbed that bends in at the ball and works fine, and heel lifts so everything feels good in the heels and matches my range of motion, but all that stuff your fitter will sort out with you, and you have a great one! I've always used an intuition power wrap in my tele boots, and toured a lot in the old black and yellow (bumblebee) Scarpa T-1's and red T-Races with them without issue. They probably do fill some space that my alpine boots just don't have, but so far, so good in the Crispi's. But man o' man, the walk mode in the EVO WC really is pretty useless... the ankle doesn't open at all. I think I'd still try to tour in them though as they ski very well both telemark and alpine parallel and are no heavier than the boots they replaced. For really early dust on grass stuff though, It'd be fun to have a super light NNN-BC set up.

Good to know. The longer I have the yellow Crispis on my feet, the more I’m liking them.

It’s weird that the instep buckle on that boot is so much easier to adjust compared to the green ones. It physically doesn’t look different, other than the color and lever shape, but it’s just a PITA compared to the easily adjustable ones on the yellow boots.

Billy is going to modify a footbed of mine to bend more easily. He’s also looking into aftermarket liners in case I need them, to make sure we get one that allows the bellows to bend comfortably.

I do have a NNN BC setup! Rossi boots and Karhu skis.

 

[Mark1975]

I have an appointment with bootfitter/pedorthist Billy Kaplan next Friday April 2.

Another trying on of both Crispis has told me this:
The older model (yellow) has WAY better buckles. The green, newer model‘s buckles are harder to adjust.
I swear the instep on the newer model is higher. WTF? The stock footbed of the older model is pretty decent, however, I always use custom footbeds. But the ones in the green boots are basically flat pieces of shit which hinder determining how the boot fits. Heel hold in the unmolded liners of the yellow boots is WAY better, too. There’s a heel pocket there. There isn’t a true heel pocket in the green ones. It’s like the bottom of a beer can, LOL, and even inserting a molded footbed in there doesn’t help much.

The bellows of the yellow boots flex better over my toes.

Is it possible that Crispi wrecked a good boot with those changes? I don’t think I’m completely clueless, and I’m thinking it’s just not just the size difference, though I admit I need the help of an experienced fitter.

Since I have till next Friday for my fitting, I’m going to try the Scarpa TXPro Women’s NTN boot. I know you all said it’s very wide, but I just want another comparison to the Crispi. It won’t hurt and it’ll certainly give me some more information.

@markojp , can you articulate more clearly how the fit of a tele boot should feel? What I’m feeling in these yellow Crispis is decent heel hold that needs a little work, enough toe room to wiggle my toes and bend the bellows, a comfortable yet firm cuff that sits at a great place on my shin, and decent around the instep but probably also needing some modification (typical for me in any ski boot). I can sit in these boots and walk in them comfortably without pain.

Wendy, I think at some point Crispi did modify the lower shell from their original NTN boots. The original EVO WC was fondly called the "boot of death" because it was so stiff. At some point, Crispi modified the molds to make it flex better with NTN bindings. The three Crispi NTN models use the same shell design, just different durometers of plastic. Whatever they changed in the WC boot got incorporated into the EVO and Shiver. So you may very well be right about the change in instep height, walk lever, and buckles.

Great idea to try the Scarpa TX Pros too. You won't know what fits the best until you try it on. Both the Scarpa and Crispi are listed as 102mm lasts. I think the feel is different because the way Scarpa and Crispi radius the front of the boot. The Scarpa seems to maintain its width into the toes, while the Crispi has a tighter radius around the front and narrows faster. Thinking back when I tried them on, I might have been able to live with the more generous toe volume, but the instep height was too low on the Scarpa. The shell was touching my instep with the liner out, and crushed it with the liner in. The Scarpa was a no go for me, but may be a good option for you.

 

[Wendy]

Wendy, I think at some point Crispi did modify the lower shell from their original NTN boots. The original EVO WC was fondly called the "boot of death" because it was so stiff. At some point, Crispi modified the molds to make it flex better with NTN bindings. The three Crispi NTN models use the same shell design, just different durometers of plastic. Whatever they changed in the WC boot got incorporated into the EVO and Shiver. So you may very well be right about the change in instep height, walk lever, and buckles.

Great idea to try the Scarpa TX Pros too. You won't know what fits the best until you try it on. Both the Scarpa and Crispi are listed as 102mm lasts. I think the feel is different because the way Scarpa and Crispi radius the front of the boot. The Scarpa seems to maintain its width into the toes, while the Crispi has a tighter radius around the front and narrows faster. Thinking back when I tried them on, I might have been able to live with the more generous toe volume, but the instep height was too low on the Scarpa. The shell was touching my instep with the liner out, and crushed it with the liner in. The Scarpa was a no go for me, but may be a good option for you.

Am I correct in that the Crispi has the rear insert for allowing lockdown into a Meidjo binding, and the Scarpas don’t? I think I read that, maybe on the Frey’s site. If so, is that a valid reason for choosing the Crispi (assuming I end up with a choice). I’m thinking that since I’m still learning, being able to lock down and ski alpine (though I know it can be done without locking down)....if I’m getting tired, that lock down feature may be attractive so I at least will keep skiing. thoughts?

Martin Fey likes the Crispi option for me because of the lower cuff height. I do not like ski boots with taller cuffs even though I’m 5’10”. Taller cuffs make flexing more difficult and have led to knee discomfort in the past. Fit is important, but having a boot that helps me learn without causing undue frustration is also important.

I also want to say that this conversation has been super helpful.

 

[Mark1975]

Yes, the Crispi boots have both the front and rear inserts that will work with the optional Meidjo heel. The Scott Voodoo and Scarpa TX Pro have only the front. The Scarpa TX Comp has neither. At one time, Scarpa had both on all their NTN boots. They could be used in AT bindings as long as you remembered to insert a plastic "puck" under the toes of the boot. The puck took up space that normally was filled by the NTN underfoot claw. Apparently someone forgot to insert the puck, used the boots in an AT binding, and got ejected and injured when the boot flexed down into the void from the missing puck. Scarpa ended up in court over that, so they decided to remove all the inserts from the TX Comp and leave only the front inserts on the TX Pro. Scott then followed suit, worried about ending up in court too.

 

[Mark1975]

That sounds about perfect! In telemark, everything in the system lacks the precision of a dialed in alpine set up. I suppose the WC telemark crew has a different experience and view...

No, it still lacks precision, even at the WC level . Same boots, bindings, and skis any of us can buy. The only mods I have seen done to boots are a liner upgrade, and the walk mechanism is bolted down. One less thing to break in a race. They use mass produced "tweener" GS race skis 21-25 meter radius. They are stiff enough to hold an edge, but soft enough to flex with a telemark boot. The Rottefella Freeride binding is the most popular, but the Meidjo is starting to show up at races. I think that is what makes it so cool. The lack of precision makes the perfect telemark turn a challenge. I have a FIS level alpine racing background, so when I am on an alpine setup, the turns have become automatic. If I do a run on telemark, look up the hill and see perfect thin railroad tracks (which is rare on a steeper run - you always seem to skid somewhere) then it feels like an accomplishment. It is like every run and every turn is unique. But yeah, when it comes to power and precision nothing comes close to a set of properly fitted 150 plugs and a set of FIS race skis.

 

[markojp]

Yup. Got out on the teley gear a couple days ago for the first time since December. It was fun getting it sorted again.

 

[Wendy]

UH-OH. The pair of 25.5 Scarpa TX Pro (women‘s) arrived today. They are nice! NOT wide, at least for me. The heel pocket and instep are narrower. The length inside the boot has got to be longer than the Crispis because I‘m not jamming my toes. These 25.5’s are pretty comfy, and I can flex the bellows (very nice feeling flex at the bellows and cuff). My left foot is a bit longer; that boot has a bit less room at the toe. The cuff is taller; definitely tighter; I have it on the first notch. Instep is on the first notch; a shocker.

I did not shell fit the boot yet; I will have Billy do that. I can feel the plastic of the shell at the bellows when I flex; it doesn’t hurt but don’t know if I this isn’t good or not. I do have the 26.5 coming to try, too. I am just trying on right now with the stock insole, which must be decent enough for an initial impression.

Thank God I’m visiting a good bootfitter!

Fit is key, but what other characteristics of the boot are important for me, as pretty much a beginner? This boot is much softer than I expected; I like the flex of it.

Is having the option to lock down the heel as is possible on the Crispis important? Is the lack of it a dealbreaker? You guys have been so helpful, keep it coming!

 

[pais alto]

I hesitated to speak up, but I found the heel pocket of the TX to be perfect for me, a slightly narrow heel, average instep width. The wide part, again for me, is the forefoot. I’m glad you’re trying the TX.

Is having the option to lock down the heel as is possible on the Crispis important? Is the lack of it a dealbreaker?

Not if you’re using...wait, which bindings are you using?

 

[Wendy]

I hesitated to speak up, but I found the heel pocket of the TX to be perfect for me, a slightly narrow heel, average instep width. The wide part, again for me, is the forefoot. I’m glad you’re trying the TX.


Not if you’re using...wait, which bindings are you using?

I don’t have bindings yet; so really not an issue. I just liked the idea of getting a Meidjo and being able to lock down the heel. But if I get a better fitting boot, I can forgo that.

Weirdly I don‘t find the forefoot in these Scarpas to be any wider than the Crispis, at all.

I just want to make sure I get a good fit and that my toes don’t get crunched.

 

[pais alto]

I just want to make sure I get a good fit and that my toes don’t get crunched.

That’s all you need...or the most important part anyway.

 

[Wendy]

That’s all you need...or the most important part anyway.

Yes.
How much toe room is in your boots? Can you describe?
The 26.5’s arrive tomorrow here.

 

[pais alto]

Yes.
How much toe room is in your boots? Can you describe?
The 26.5’s arrive tomorrow here.

The boot fits me firmly across the mets, but I can wiggle my toes reasonably well. For me, the TX is the best fitting boot I’ve ever had.

I was puzzled by someone here mentioning the instep was too tight - I have a high instep and they work well for me. But mine are older, like maybe 1st generation and maybe they have a slightly different fit. Currently they have Intuition Power Wrap + liners, which stiffened them some, and Instaprint foot beds. There may be some boot fitter foam or L pads around the ankles, I forget - I got them dialed a couple years back and haven’t messed with them since. I think those are like the third set of liners in the boots’ lifetime - I worked full time patrol in them for like 10 years. I even had them resoled once. Broke a cuff once running a patient in a toboggan down a steep hardpacked run.
/blog

 

[Wendy]

The boot fits me firmly across the mets, but I can wiggle my toes reasonably well. For me, the TX is the best fitting boot I’ve ever had.

I was puzzled by someone here mentioning the instep was too tight - I have a high instep and they work well for me. But mine are older, like maybe 1st generation and maybe they have a slightly different fit. Currently they have Intuition Power Wrap + liners, which stiffened them some, and Instaprint foot beds. There may be some boot fitter foam or L pads around the ankles, I forget - I got them dialed a couple years back and haven’t messed with them since. I think those are like the third set of liners in the boots’ lifetime - I worked full time patrol in them for like 10 years. I even had them resoled once. Broke a cuff once running a patient in a toboggan down a steep hardpacked run.
/blog

The liners on these are not the power wrap ones, rather the ones with a cuff, which I prefer.
The 25.5 just might fit great once molded with my heel set firmly in the pocket. My instep is low, which is why the Scarpas may actually be the best fit.
I can keep speculating for a week, or just shut up and wait to see my bootfitter.

 

[Paul Lutes]

Speculate away! The more info/experiences you gather, the better prepared you'll be when you start the fitting process. My experience is almost identical to Pais Alto's: TX (Comp) is the best fitting boot I've ever had - good enough that I can crank down hard on all the buckles to maximize edging/control and my old worn out feet don't complain. I use an intuition lace up liner (FX race), and toss the lacing.