Fat Bikes Need opinion on 45NRTH Van Helga or Bonti Gnarwal

[Ron]

I am looking to replace my Barbagazi's with something that will grip loose snow a little better. Overall, the Barbi's are really good tires but we ride on a good deal of soft, loose snow and on steep sections, especially on switchbacks, they lack grip. I am a little concerned about going from a 4.5 to a 4 but if they add grip, that will be a win overall. The Van Helga's get solid reviews and they look good (siping and tire compound ). I have played around with PSI but the barbi's just dont have the grip on loose.,

The Gnarwhals look really good as well, not giving up float. studs can be added if needed but we dont have ice.

EDIT- spoke with mike Curiak, says Gnarwhals all the way.

 

[Tom K.]

I can see a Gnarwhal finding its way onto the front of my bike (won't fit out back).

Please report back. I'm curious as to whether a bit more front grip can be had without resorting to studs.

For now, the Dillinger 4s are doing well.

 

[Ron]

Will do! I get them on Monday. the larger lugs on the Gnarwhal will provide more bite than the mid sized lugs on the Barbe. Studs are for ice.

 

[firebanex]

I used a 3.8 Van Helga for a season as a front tire, no complaints but at the time it was the first actual good tire I had ever had on my first fat bike. I wouldn't use it as a snow specific tire as there are better choices, it's more of a one tire for all seasons sort of choice.

I would trend towards the the Gnarwal over the Barbe for loose snow, and the Dillinger 4 or 5 (actually a 4.6) depending on your weight over either of those. The shallow but wide chevron like tread in the middle of the Dillinger does a LOT for loose snow traction. There are days where it feels like I have paddles on there getting me through the snow.

 

[Superbman]

Though most of the Vee Tire Co. products are a little low end...the Snowshoes do what they're supposed to do really, really well (especially the XL's!). BTW, what ever tires you are looking to get..I wouldn't wait too long to grab them--just checked QBP at the shop..., supplies are running low.

Does 45nrth make a 27.5 of the Flowbeist/ Dunderbeast combo? More grip in loose snow...not sure I'd be looking to size down (FWIW-my mid winter ice/ snow tires right now are the classic Surly 4.8 Bud and Lou Tires with @ 200 grip studs on each)-- And I run my 4.8 DHF/ DHR combo until the ice threat gets too palpable.

 

[Tom K.]

I would trend towards the the Gnarwal over the Barbe for loose snow, and the Dillinger 4 or 5 (actually a 4.6) depending on your weight over either of those. The shallow but wide chevron like tread in the middle of the Dillinger does a LOT for loose snow traction. There are days where it feels like I have paddles on there getting me through the snow.

I've got no experience with any FB tire other than the Dillinger 4s in 27.5, but I have been amazed at their snow traction. Maybe all FB tires are like this?

 

[Ron]

a lot depends on the conditions and terrain you are riding in. climbing in loose snow is probably the most challenging for tire grip as far as I'm concerned. I dont have a lot of experience with different tires but from friends around here, most tires are pretty good.

 

[Slim]

Well, it’s a little hard to top Mike Curiak’s experience riding soft snow and trying different tires...

Testing one, two.

What the screed below boils down to is that I just want to ride my bike more . In this instance, "more" does not refer to days per we...

lacemine29.blogspot.com

 

[Ron]

Mike and Andrew, who owns Why cycles and came out of 9-Zero-7 and Borealis both strongly suggested the Gnarwhals.

 

[Slim]

I've got no experience with any FB tire other than the Dillinger 4s in 27.5, but I have been amazed at their snow traction. Maybe all FB tires are like this?

No. Not all fatbike tires have good traction in snow. Big Fat Larry is useless.

There is also a big differences in kinds of snow (somehting we skiers know all to well).

Like @Ron said: climbing in loose snow is very hard.

You need enough weight over the rear tire (short chainstays) and the biggest, lowest pressure tire, with the biggest paddle wheel treads, you can find and fit.

Going down in size is absolutely the worst thing for loose snow. The reason for that is that in loose snow, it’s not so much the tire grabbing the snow that’s the problem, it’s the fact that that snow is sliding over the snow below it.
Think of this thought experiment:

Deep, loose snow. Try pulling a spade though it. Now try with a snow shovel.
Even though the spade has plenty of bite in the snow, there is simply not enough resistance in the snow itself. Once you move up to the bigger volume of the snow shovel, you can push against it.
Ain’t no replacement for displacement!
​

In hard packed snow, it is more about pointy, tall knobs that can dig in and penetrate the firm snow to find traction.

I’d rate the Dillinger 4 a 2/5, (maybe 2.5/5 for the 27.5 version? No experience), for climbing traction, from what I have tried and friends have ridden.

I ride the Dillinger 5 on the back, since it fits my bike, rolls fast, has sufficient traction for me (3/5) on soft snow, and quite decent traction on hardpack. The tires that provide good soft snow traction are all horrible at rolling resistance on hardpack.


If you want real, soft snow climbing traction, the list is short:

Terrene Johny 5 if you need studs
Surly Lou if you don’t
Vee Snowshoe XXL if it fits your bike (very few do).

If 4.6 is the biggest tire that fits your bike, and you ride loose snow, I’d shop for a new bike, and maybe run one of the above tires on an 80mm rim in the meantime.

If you have 27.5 rims it seems that the Gnarwhals are the only option: about the biggest volume, and nice paddle tread. Bonus for being studded.

 

[Slim]

Mike and Andrew, who owns Why cycles and came out of 9-Zero-7 and Borealis both strongly suggested the Gnarwhals.

Are you running 27.5 rims Ron?

Does anyone make 100mm (or even just 90mm) fatbike rims in 27.5?

 

[Ron]

yes. Why Cycles will take a 27.5x4.5

 

[Ron]

See the paddles on the Lou, from what I can tell, they only come in 26's? Im going to give the Gnarwhals a shot. Bontrager has a 30 day trial on all of their gear.

 

[Ron]

Bonus for being studded.

you have the option of studding them or not.

 

[Slim]

Yeah, with 27.5 rims, Gnarwhals seem the way to go.
If that doesn’t do it for you, get a second wheelset in 26, 100mm rims and put Lou’s on them. I have a pair for sale, new in box if anyone needs them. (bought by mistake).

 

[Slim]

you have the option of studding them or not.

Yeah, I should have written: “bonus for being stud-able”

 

[Ron]

I have ridden both 26 and 27.5 and far prefer the 27.5. One of the advantages I felt with the 27.5 was on steeper climbs you can modulate the power output much better which helps to prevent slip-out. the Barbagazi's are really good on everything up here but that greasy, loose snow. It was only on the steeper 10% (im guessing) pitches or steep switchback corners where there I had to walk-a-bike. we have enough of that here to warrant a tire swap out. the other issue with the Barbi's is the lack of cornering lugs, on narrow trails, I slipped out a couple of times

 

[Ron]

Are you running 27.5 rims Ron?

Does anyone make 100mm (or even just 90mm) fatbike rims in 27.5?

I dont think so, mine are 83.

 

[Slim]

I have ridden both 26 and 27.5 and far prefer the 27.5. One of the advantages I felt with the 27.5 was on steeper climbs you can modulate the power output much better which helps to prevent slip-out.

I could see that if comparing like for like. But in this case we are comparing a larger size tire on 26} rims to a smaller tire on 27.5” rims. So the ouser diameter would be very close.
The actual contact patch would be even longer, because the taller tire allows you to air down further.
Add to that the extra width (wider tire+wider rim) and the traction in loose snow will be much better.

Note that, although he rides a lot of 27.5, for loose snow Mike C is still on 26”.
I think the best thing for fatbikes would be 27.5x4.8-5.0 and 29x4.0. Unfortunately, those sizes don’t exist, and since the fatbike market is shrinking, they aren’t likely to appear either.

Still, 27.5x4.5 with decent tread is already pretty darn good. On deep powder days you will be out skiing anyway I bet!

 

[Ron]

yeah, 6" or more breaking trail on the bike isn't a ton of fun. .