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Need technique/advice for skiing canyon/cliff type mogul formations in steep terrain

tball

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Take a trip to Crested Butte on your epic pass and spend lots of time skiing the steep terrain. You'll be forced to develop different tactics than you use on moderate-pitch bump runs. The bumps will teach you how to ski them with enough mileage.
 

locknload

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C'mon down to Taos and do a ski week.
Problem solved.
Taos has some of the most irregular, oval/kidney-shaped, bumps I have ever seen with deep troughs in between! Why do you let the Texans bring those weird shaped moguls to TSV? :roflmao:
 

dbostedo

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Is the bottom picture at the bottom of Huntziger at Taos?
Nope... not Hunziker. Hunziker generally had nice bumps.

That pic is about 2/3 of the way down Main Street on Kachina, where it shifts to the left under the chair.

(FWIW, the other pic is from Blitz)
 
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WildBillD

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@SSSdave

Hi Dave
What do you mean by plain? you mention that noun several times. Do you mean plane as relating to geometry? I am familiar with the saggital, transerve and frontal planes as planes relating to the human body. From the definiton in wikipedia, plane surfaces in geometry for 2D shapes are usually flat. for 3D shapes they a still flat, but include Height( they may include tilt,but still flat). Can you elaborate on what you mean by plain in context of your dialogs?

@SSSdave
It is not easy to get one's gravity perpendicular vertical mind to instead visualize at inclined plains but once one does the game becomes more automatic . If one keeps one's downhill edged ski shovels pointing within about 30 degrees of a fall line, it is amazing how a good bump skier will just flow through mogul fields.

@SSSdave My mindset is one of dynamically jumping down via concave surfaces like on a fall line staircase. A weight loaded flexed bent ski fits in such concavities if oriented to fit and on the same plain. Many are on inclined snow surfaces, not gravity vertical. Orienting one's skis in the plain of such surfaces requires visual brain automatic fast reaction experience, learned by much repetition. Thus not the continual downward shin pressure as in troughs. Without even seeing, one's body can also learns by feel alone what works with good efficient rhythmic balance. A different game in the mix.

 

KingGrump

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Taos has some of the most irregular, oval/kidney-shaped, bumps I have ever seen with deep troughs in between! Why do you let the Texans bring those weird shaped moguls to TSV? :roflmao:

You must be looking at the wrong places. the bad bumps are usually off tower #10 on chair #7. Too many bad skier going through there. The closest we usually get to those nasties is Bob into Ash Pound.

Shhh, the deep troughs are where we buried the people we don't like. You are not supposed to ski the trough. lest you disturb the bodies.
You should really take a ski week and learn more about bump identification. Oval/kidney shape bumps are good bumps. They get you down the hill much faster. Unlike the short chopped up round bumps.
 

locknload

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You must be looking at the wrong places. the bad bumps are usually off tower #10 on chair #7. Too many bad skier going through there. The closest we usually get to those nasties is Bob into Ash Pound.

Shhh, the deep troughs are where we buried the people we don't like. You are not supposed to ski the trough. lest you disturb the bodies.
You should really take a ski week and learn more about bump identification. Oval/kidney shape bumps are good bumps. They get you down the hill much faster. Unlike the short chopped up round bumps.
Not the massive oval/kidney shaped bump that was sawed off with a 6 foot drop...it aint good for anyone. Trust me. I like bumps...this one was like mutant bump.
 

Andy Mink

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Where I have trouble is adapting to steep terrain, with moguls that have sidewalls that resemble a a canyon mesa, fairly flat base with sheer dropoffs on front and sides of the moguls.
Like these? There is nothing good or fun about these Chenobyl moguls. Photo by @Philpug at Mt. Rose.
IMG_0663.jpeg
 

Rod9301

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Agree.


Remember: the OP stated he is competent in black and blue moguls. We haven't seen them ski so we only have their word for it. Skiing 20-30 degree slope mogul runs cut by good mogul skiers with lots of line choices is a different kettle of fish than a 50+ degree slope with chaotic Volkswagen sized bumps. Same technique maybe, but different tactics. A lot of skiing the latter is about confidence in that terrain. Perfect practice always makes perfect.
50? Don't think there's any 50 degree slope in any resort in NA.
 

Andy Mink

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Rod9301

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A bit off topic, but that I'll disagree with. Everyone knows what a 30 degree or 45 degree angle looks like. But say 80% grade to someone, and you'll have to explain, and they still may not get it. We should all stop using grade unless there's a technical reason to use it. "Degrees" is much more comprehensible for most people IMO.
Actually, i doubt many skiers have even seen 45 degrees slopes, let alone skied. 45 is seriously steep, and how many people can ski that?
0.1 percent?
 

Andy Mink

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Scruffy

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50? Don't think there's any 50 degree slope in any resort in NA.
Oh for-crying-out-loud, should have seen this coming :ogbiggrin: Wish I never put a number in my post :roflmao:

Delirium Dive sunshine village 55 degrees. Lot's of small side entrances to steep 40-45* stuff at Taos, Alta, Snowbird, Aspen Highlands, Alpental that are steeper than the run. Besides, Nobody said we are confined to NA in our skiing adventures. ogwink

This isn't a "my d!@k is bigger than your's" thread. It's about helping the OP with is tactics for skiing the type of bumps he stated in the OP. :beercheer:
 

dbostedo

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Actually, i doubt many skiers have even seen 45 degrees slopes, let alone skied
I agree with that. I was literally talking about angles, not ski slopes. People know what a 45 degree angle is.

There simply aren't that many 45 degree slopes around in resorts. At least not for more than a handful of turns. A couple of examples just because I like maps... and to tie this back to the OP, some of the folks here ski some of this with large bumps pretty regularly. Also, the picture above is from Blitz, which you can see in the Taos pic below is one of the least steep parts of the runs off of that ridge (and one of the only labeled runs... but much of the ridge is skied regularly).

The Slides at Rose... yellow/orange is 36-40 degrees, red is 41-45 degrees, pink is 46-50 degrees, and teal/blue is 51 or higher (so could indicate cliffs too, not just steeps).
1677077919097.png


The West Basin Ridge at Taos... yellow/orange is 36-40 degrees, red is 41-45 degrees, pink is 46-50 degrees, and teal/blue is 51 or higher (so could indicate cliffs too, not just steeps).
1677078107378.png
 

KingGrump

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Not the massive oval/kidney shaped bump that was sawed off with a 6 foot drop...it aint good for anyone. Trust me. I like bumps...this one was like mutant bump.

What did I tell you about bad drugs? You must have been hallucinating when you were here.

You have to come back and show me those mutant bumps. Have no cue what you are talking about.


Like these? There is nothing good or fun about these Chenobyl moguls. Photo by @Philpug at Mt. Rose.
View attachment 193512

Thems are good bumps. :ogbiggrin:
Give them a little bit of respect, they will treat you just fine.
 

tball

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This isn't a "my d!@k is bigger than your's" thread. It's about helping the OP with is tactics for skiing the type of bumps he stated in the OP. :beercheer:
I'll take the challenge. :roflmao:

If anyone posts a video of themselves skiing bumps steeper than I'm skiing in this video, I'll buy you BBQ and a beer at A-basin! :ogbiggrin: I'll kindly ask @dbostedo to be the arbitrator of steepness (new title?).



That's the Lone Tree chute at Snowbasin. I think, maybe, those bumps are similar to what the OP has described? There are both POV and non-POV shots of me skiing the same chute.

I'm not saying that's the prettiest skiing, but I think I skied those very challenging conditions OK... except for the part where I clipped my tail on a rock and almost rag-dolled to the bottom. ;)

A few thoughts:
  • Notice how much more difficult and cliffy the bumps look in the POV video. There's a huge mental part to getting comfortable making that next turn.
  • All I'm thinking about while skiing those bumps is, "what's the easiest and smoothest way I can make a turn and bring my skis all the way around the hill to control my speed."
  • The bumps form very differently in steep terrain, as most skiers must bring their skis around or sideslip them. There isn't a zipper line. You need different tactics in your toolbox with rounder turn shapes.
  • The tough part is you must be comfortable and practiced in both a) skiing steep terrain and b) different and often funky bumps.
My suggestion: when you find a steep bump line that challenges you, go back and ski it repeatedly trying different tactics. Find turn shapes that work for you. More options should open up as you grow comfortable with the steepness after several runs.

.
 

mdf

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Steep gullies are different. They often develop a single line, with bumps that go most of the way across. I've heard it described as "the swingset". You drop down, go across, and up the other side.
 

dbostedo

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I'll kindly ask @dbostedo to be the arbitrator of steepness (new title?).
I like my title just fine :)

That seems less like a bump field, than a bump column - all stacked up. I'm not sure that's the kind of thing the OP is considering. In any case... doing a profile of Lone Tree on Caltopo gives the following profile (and as always, this is the topo map - snow loading and particular conditions can change things somewhat):

1677089214912.png
 

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