New boot shopping - Foot width (measured) vs boot last width

[Mike Thomas]

i dont see why you guys are blaming the app and saying throw out the app.
When you are also saying the app measurements are correct and you can confirm with a tapemeasure.
So the blame should be on the boot last product spec if something like a 100last spec is appropriate fit for a 113 real foot. This isnt the apps fault, you still need to know the actual measurement as a starting point, and that's real quantitative data.

No one is saying any of these things. They are saying the numbers don't tell the full story and never will. Ever. The last width is a real number, it's how wide the boot is in one specific spot. It's not what foot it will fit. If ski boots were automobile parts or bicycle parts, sure, the measurements would be incredibly useful. It would be all you need to find a compatible 'part'. Ski boots have to interface with humans, humans are... squirrelly. So scanning the foot is nice, info is great, but it's a starting point that honestly is way less helpful to getting the best boot possible than you would ever believe. It's a 'dog and pony show' to reassure the customer that you know what you're doing but it's no better than a Brannock device and a good set of eyes. I know you HATE that answer, but it is the answer.

Just read what Pliny the Elder posts, his posts are a straight up:

 

[bbbradley]

Going with the assumption that last width is interesting, but only mildly relevant to overall boot fit when it comes to a four buckle overlap like the ones I suggested, does that mean they are all essentially the same and it comes down to color, brand preference, and price?

 

[Philpug]

Going with the assumption that last width is interesting, but only mildly relevant to overall boot fit when it comes to a four buckle overlap like the ones I suggested, does that mean they are all essentially the same and it comes down to color, brand preference, and price?

No, because there are different shapes, volume and stances. Different boots fit different ways in different areas.

 

[bbbradley]

No, because there are different shapes, volume and stances. Different boots fit different ways in different areas.

And this is where a good boot fitter should help, I suppose.

 

[Tom K.]

And their ability to stay ahead of their feet instead of behind them.

pliny the elder

QFT

 

[markojp]

i dont see why you guys are blaming the app and saying throw out the app.
When you are also saying the app measurements are correct and you can confirm with a tapemeasure.
So the blame should be on the boot last product spec if something like a 100last spec is appropriate fit for a 113 real foot. This isnt the apps fault, you still need to know the actual measurement as a starting point, and that's real quantitative data.

By that same token, clothing sizes and specifically pants are now aspirational too. I dont think you should be blaming the tape measure when your levis jeans are labelled "32"waist but actually measure 34 inches and when you go to europe or asia to buy clothes 32 inches doesn't fit

There isn't any blame anywhere. Ski boots aren't blue jeans. Think more tailored suit. High performance boots rarely work out of the box if correctly sized. Accurate volumes and differences are nearly impossible to quantify, which is why simple 2D descriptions don't work.

 

[markojp]

Going with the assumption that last width is interesting, but only mildly relevant to overall boot fit when it comes to a four buckle overlap like the ones I suggested, does that mean they are all essentially the same and it comes down to color, brand preference, and price?

No.

 

[raytseng]

There isn't any blame anywhere. Ski boots aren't blue jeans. Think more tailored suit. High performance boots rarely work out of the box if correctly sized. Accurate volumes and differences are nearly impossible to quantify, which is why simple 2D descriptions don't work.

yea I'm with you. Except I'd say its not a tailored suit, but an off the rack altered suit, where each stock model has a different idea of measurements and is just a starting point for alterations.

I will throw out if we're going to beat this clothing metaphor to death, a truly bespoke tailored suit would be like dodge boots, and they do go by the app and use the actual measurements to build your boot.

 

[pliny the elder]

No one is saying any of these things. They are saying the numbers don't tell the full story and never will. Ever. The last width is a real number, it's how wide the boot is in one specific spot. It's not what foot it will fit. If ski boots were automobile parts or bicycle parts, sure, the measurements would be incredibly useful. It would be all you need to find a compatible 'part'. Ski boots have to interface with humans, humans are... squirrelly. So scanning the foot is nice, info is great, but it's a starting point that honestly is way less helpful to getting the best boot possible than you would ever believe. It's a 'dog and pony show' to reassure the customer that you know what you're doing but it's no better than a Brannock device and a good set of eyes. I know you HATE that answer, but it is the answer.

Just read what Pliny the Elder posts, his posts are a straight up:

While I am tempted to be flattered, sarcasm doesn't always translate well on the Internet so you never know.
This won't be be "drop the mic", but the digital scanning systems that are out there currently are primarily for the customers benefit. They look really cool and high tech and all, but they don't tell a good bootfitter all that much.
I have spent quite a bit of time playing with most of the systems out there and while they do tell about dimensions they don't tell anything about angles, or ranges of motion, which are often as important as dimensions when selecting the right boots for someone.
The feature where the machine picks the boot is tied to that shops inventory . So it won't pick boots you don't carry or have in their size if you keep it current with your stock.
This is smoke and mirrors, as is trying boots on virtually, which is a waste of time.
At some point you have to put feet into boots to decide what actually fits.
And there is more to it than width at the ball of foot.

pliny the elder

 

[markojp]

yea I'm with you. Except I'd say its not a tailored suit, but an off the rack altered suit, where each stock model has a different idea of measurements and is just a starting point for alterations.

I will throw out if we're going to beat this clothing metaphor to death, a truly bespoke tailored suit would be like dodge boots, and they do go by the app and use the actual measurements to build your boot.

I'll stick with the WCR.

 

[ScottB]

I just went through a new boot purchase and can offer some tidbits from my experience.

1. The last width of each boot goes up or down 2 mm for each size change. Starting with the reference size and last width for each model, you can get to what it will be for your size.

2. Based on what you are reporting, and all the posts, 3D scanning is only a guide that tells you if you have a wide foot or narrow. Yours is wide. For context, mine is narrow and I never did a scan of my foot, but it measures 95-98 wide.

3. I was looking at the same boots you were. I landed in an Atomic Redster Club Sport, which is 96 wide in size 26. I ended up in a 29 shell with a last width of 102. I still needed a punch in one spot and it is the snuggest fit I have ever had. I also fit about the same in the Atomic Redster WC boot with a 92 last in size 26. Basically, don't get hung up on last width. The 92 last boot did feel narrower than the 96 boot I bought.

4. Its really about the fit around the ankle, heel, instep area. The last width is the ball of your foot and less critical in my opinion. Its just a reference number to differentiate the width of each model.

5. Probably most important, race boots are made to be "expanded" to fit your foot where they are too tight. You can go up or down one size from your ideal length to get more room or less room as needed. Since I have a narrow foot, I need to go down in size and lengthen the toe area of most boots to get them snug enough. With the Redster Club Sport, it was narrow enough to keep me in a size with enough toe room, 29. I am a size 13 shoe. My son has a wide foot, and he went up one size to get the needed extra width and that worked really well for him. Atomic makes their Hawx series boots in 3 widths, so that's a great option for getting the width and length right.

6. With your wider foot and looking at race boots, you will probably need some "expansion' to be comfortable. The Lange wide model in the RS sounds like a good starting point for you. Again, you will have to try them on to really get a sense of what will fit and what won't. I suppose a really experienced boot fitter looking at your feet can guide you. I haven't found too many of them, but I can recommend the Boot Pro shop in Ludlow VT as very good New England shop. They stock a lot of large size boots and carry Lange, Atomic, and maybe other brands. I bought my Club Sports from them and after a punch and some fitting, they are great from the first day onward.

 

[bbbradley]

I've been in touch with a local boot fitter who did some work for friends, we're scheduling time for him to assess my feet vis-à-vis the boots I am interested in. Good to hear some war stories about foot width and boot fitting.

 

[bbbradley]

You can throw both of those boot fitting apps I tried in the garbage...it was off by 10+mm on each foot in width. Whoever said go to a boot fitter versus mucking around with technology was right.

 

[cantunamunch]

You can throw both of those boot fitting apps I tried in the garbage...it was off by 10+mm on each foot in width. Whoever said go to a boot fitter versus mucking around with technology was right.

 

[Henry]

bb, so your feet are 112 or more across the metatarsals. What is the shape of the rest of your foot?

A friend has feet he describes as shaped like pancakes. Flat and wide. He was sold high volume boots to fit his wide feet. His feet were swimming in them. He skied just awful in them. A real bootfitter put him into low volume boots with the capability of being punched out to his width. Happy skier...after buying 2 pair of new boots.

Shop for a bootfitter, not for boots. Get boots at a location where you can ski, return for adjustments, ski more, maybe return for more adjustments. My rule of thumb--if the boots are comfy in the shop, they're probably too big. After the liner molds to your feet from skiing how will the fit be then?

 

[bbbradley]

bb, so your feet are 112 or more across the metatarsals. What is the shape of the rest of your foot?

A friend has feet he describes as shaped like pancakes. Flat and wide. He was sold high volume boots to fit his wide feet. His feet were swimming in them. He skied just awful in them. A real bootfitter put him into low volume boots with the capability of being punched out to his width. Happy skier...after buying 2 pair of new boots.

Shop for a bootfitter, not for boots. Get boots at a location where you can ski, return for adjustments, ski more, maybe return for more adjustments. My rule of thumb--if the boots are comfy in the shop, they're probably too big. After the liner molds to your feet from skiing how will the fit be then?

They were not 112+, they measured at ~103 IIRC, the apps I downloaded were horribly wrong. I did not get a high volume boot. I went with the Raptor 140 based on our discussion, though it was a tough sell...I almost couldn't get the one in the shop on my foot!

The shop is ~15-20 mins from my house, so easy to get to for fitting work once they arrive and I have a chance to ski in them.

 

[DanoT]

My Head boots have a heat-able shell and I was told that the heat tends to increase boot volume a slight bit, something that I was looking for.

 

[Mike Thomas]

While I am tempted to be flattered, sarcasm doesn't always translate well on the Internet so you never know.

No sarcasm to be read into my post at all, I thoroughly enjoy your posts. I have genuine appreciation for the knowledge you bring to this forum. When you post it is usually, in my opinion, 'just lock this thread, that's the answer'.

 

[pliny the elder]

No sarcasm to be read into my post at all, I thoroughly enjoy your posts. I have genuine appreciation for the knowledge you bring to this forum. When you post it is usually, in my opinion, 'just lock this thread, that's the answer'.

Thank you. I sent you a message saying the same.
The graphics were like boom, as the cool kids say.

pte

 

[David]

My swampers are 118 with a narrow heel and a very high instep. After making boot fitters cry my entire life I finaly bought Daleboot's. I'll never put another boot on my feet.