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New pin-action Rottefella (and Alfa boot) - WANTED NOW: Pugski Nordic Sleuthing

cantunamunch

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I cannot possibly oversell how much awesomeness this means. Can we please get someone from the Skitalk media exposure team to investigate this? @Philpug ?


alfa-3.jpg



 

Delicious

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Icing, maybe? Right?
Those boots look like they're from the future though! THAT boot design applied to ANY of the current standards would be great with me.
 

Tony S

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I cannot possibly oversell how much awesomeness this means. Can we please get someone from the SkiTalk media exposure team to investigate this? @Philpug ?


alfa-3.jpg



Oh yeah. I want this. My recent introduction to AT basically left me unmoved. This is more my speed, I suspect.
 

neonorchid

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Oh yeah. I want this. My recent introduction to AT basically left me unmoved. This is more my speed, I suspect.
Different applications, both set-ups would be nice to have.

"We will also tune (re-amp) models that are perfect and develop some new models, specifically designed to function really well with this system, but that can also be used with 75mm/BC bindings."

^ IDK about the above "combi" feature. Used in "Explore spring loaded Pin" mode along with the extra front sole length of a 75mm 3pin duckbill would dictate a forward "Explore pin" pivot point thus for messing up efficiency of stride, no?

Actually, prior to reading of the aforementioned combo. I was thinking a boot with the Explore pin sole and a BC-NNN bar combination done correct from an engineering standpoint would fit, offer more versatility.
Use of the same boot with BC-NNN skis we already own and ability to drive a ~70mm thru ~100mm (shovel) BC XC ski would be good for building a quiver. Less critical of a needed for an entirely different set-ups to move up or down in ski size. All of which could help sales and market acceptance of the new system.
 

moreoutdoorYuri

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ok, nice update on some old ideas, but... €229 for a mostly 'plastic binding of really simple design and €599 for the boot?
I'm all for 'intellectual property rights', but come on... I realize the Scandis have a very high tax rate, but come on...
The 75 - 3 pin BC system had plenty of stability for a standard BC xc ski, even a hybrid newer, mid-wide.
The shoe/boot was always the problem. Putting the high weight of a xtra-wide BC ski with steel edges is another thing... Then you really need full telemark stuff.
I do luv Alfa - but not sure about these... visually there's too much, too close in to the ankle joint, which appears could 'bind' and inhibit the stride. The instep Boa ratchet seems too close to the edge of the upper and appears it could bind on an elongated 'classic' stride. I'd have to try it... Obviously they have way more xc cred than I do, but I don;t see it...
Side pin attachment is a good idea when working a stiff sole, but the sole needs to be torsionally stiff, not so necessary for longitudinal flex.
and there seem to be 2 boot styles/versions, whatz that?
you wanna charge €599, make a torsional stiff sole with good flex longitudinal - initial leg drive in skating comes from the ball O the foot, not the toe...
and whats the 'bail' on the heel rest for? is it a 'bail' - some sortta spring loaded heel holder (boot doesn't show any heel detents) or bottle opener?
the old Adidas 38 system (late 70's) was quite good torsionally, even though the boot had no-NONE lateral support for anything off-axis like skating. But old school 'Kick/Glide' - awesome!
I just don't see €828 here, VAT included... this is EpiPen territory... I'm from missouri... LOL
 

Tony S

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ok, nice update on some old ideas, but... €229 for a mostly 'plastic binding of really simple design and €599 for the boot?
I'm all for 'intellectual property rights', but come on... I realize the Scandis have a very high tax rate, but come on...
The 75 - 3 pin BC system had plenty of stability for a standard BC xc ski, even a hybrid newer, mid-wide.
The shoe/boot was always the problem. Putting the high weight of a xtra-wide BC ski with steel edges is another thing... Then you really need full telemark stuff.
I do luv Alfa - but not sure about these... visually there's too much, too close in to the ankle joint, which appears could 'bind' and inhibit the stride. The instep Boa ratchet seems too close to the edge of the upper and appears it could bind on an elongated 'classic' stride. I'd have to try it... Obviously they have way more xc cred than I do, but I don;t see it...
Side pin attachment is a good idea when working a stiff sole, but the sole needs to be torsionally stiff, not so necessary for longitudinal flex.
and there seem to be 2 boot styles/versions, whatz that?
you wanna charge €599, make a torsional stiff sole with good flex longitudinal - initial leg drive in skating comes from the ball O the foot, not the toe...
and whats the 'bail' on the heel rest for? is it a 'bail' - some sortta spring loaded heel holder (boot doesn't show any heel detents) or bottle opener?
the old Adidas 38 system (late 70's) was quite good torsionally, even though the boot had no-NONE lateral support for anything off-axis like skating. But old school 'Kick/Glide' - awesome!
I just don't see €828 here, VAT included... this is EpiPen territory... I'm from missouri... LOL
Good points. I honestly didn't get as far as looking at the prices.
 
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cantunamunch

cantunamunch

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Good points. I honestly didn't get as far as looking at the prices.


Make sure you also look at prices of modern winter cycling boots. A Bontrager OMW with one BoA and no CF in cuff or sole is $330 A Lake MXZ400 - with a CF sole and a single BOA (note the instep placement) is $440. That's an established product with no CF cuff, static sole drilling that doesn't have to create an accurate pivot point.

No offense, but expecting a new product line, limited market winter bootie product with a CF sole and CF cuff and GoreTex membrane and 3 Boas and front-end machining accuracy comparable to a through-axle bike fork for cheap molded shoe money is :roflmao::roflmao:
 
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neonorchid

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Good points. I honestly didn't get as far as looking at the prices.
Vaporware at this point, specs appeared vague and or lost something in translation. I didn't pay much attention to pricing. But now that it's being discussed -

Price: 265$ USD for the binding. OK, Rottefellia BC-NNN Magnum binding list for $125 so twice as much but most retailers sell the BC Magnum for $89 or $99 and that boot is top of the line, there is talk of options -

"From what I have seen, and the information we have provided Alpina, they will probably do something similar, with one model based on the Alaska boots and with a lighter and cheaper option as well as a stiffer and more specific model developed for the Xplore system."

...have you seen at the cost of high end Skate Ski Boots, $870 Salomon S/Lab Carbon Skate Prolink boot 20/21
 

Scruffy

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Just saw this. I like.
 

skiwv

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looks like something to slot between nnn-bc and teletech type bindings.

I can see this binding built with something other than plastic offering better downhill control than 3 pin and nnn bindings, but seems like too much force on the sides of the toe for a plastic build.
 
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cantunamunch

cantunamunch

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I can see this binding built with something other than plastic offering better downhill control than 3 pin and nnn bindings, but seems like too much force on the sides of the toe for a plastic build.

One of the reasons I don't see this going to a budget boot anytime soon.

One can totally imagine a complete through - pin just beyond the reach of the toes but then that block has to actually adhere to the rest of the boot.
Remember big leather or big vinyl 75 mm boots with glued welts? The ones with 17-20mm toe lugs? Remember how they'd delaminate at the toe? Yeh, it's easy to say 'glues have gotten better in 20 years' but they're not better enough that cheap design decisions won't surface.

So, yes, you bet, there's a lot of force and reaction force issues that should not be dismissed.
 
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neonorchid

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Apparently, it's all about the Boot, and if you plan to use cables and also add a full plastic Telle boot to the quiver -



Will be interesting to find out how far the new Xplore system will go beyond NNN-BC with a high quality boot...


Someone asked about NNN-BC Alpina Alaska in the comments. He said they're good but has only tried 75mm 3 pin Alpina Alaska,

I did his test with my NNN-BC Alaska boots, much better than that Fischer in the video, not quite as good as his Alfa boot. My NNN-BC Alpina Alaska sole and lower part of boot from ankle down stayed flat on the ski but the upper cuff flexed some outward laterally but is pretty stiff flexing inward medially probably the same as his Alfa's. Although that could be a matter of break in with my leather Alpina Alaska boot and may change.

 
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Steve_VT

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Wonder about differences with Lync and Meidjo bindings? This appears more general, less strong for backcountry tele?
 

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