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Mike King

AKA Habacomike
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Louisville CO/Aspen Snowmass
The other thing that was interesting from the WSJ article was how, because of MIDA, local officials have almost no control or ability to affect the development of the project.
 

KingGrump

Most Interesting Man In The World
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Wasatchman

over the hill
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I honestly hadn't heard of the WPR development until @Ken_R post. Thanks for the heads up. Looks like they are trying to create another Yellowstone Club and hired Bob Wheaton, the former Deer Valley GM. Being built near Ogden. One blurb I read said it is for the 1 percent of the 1 percent.
 

Wasatchman

over the hill
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That was my first thought.
The military angle is a means to very favorable financing. In fact, without the MIDA financing, the developer admits there is no way they would try and undertake the project. There would be no such military component at all if it weren't as a means for financing. But even with very favorable financing, the huge project ambitions are still quite questionable.

Meanwhile, the WPR development also seems incredibly ambitious. A private club including extensive skiing for 750 households. But they state they are targeting the 1 percent of the one percent, so they would have enough wealth to pull it off if the demand is there.
 

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
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That article pretty well sums up the sentiments here. That mountain is my direct view from my neighborhood. I can see tons of activity up there daily--new roads, what appear to be the beginnings of ski runs, etc. This county has very little business tax revenue and as such, the schools are under-funded in a state that already doesn't fund schools enough. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out for us residents here. Wouldn't be a bad place to be a ski instructor, at least money-wise.
 

Wasatchman

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So Deer Valley was not happy with how Deer Crest turned out. The land developer dictated how the runs would be laid out and where the lifts would be placed and Deer Valley feels they learned a lot about how not to layout ski runs. Now Extell apparently wants to dictate the run layout without listening to any input from Deer Valley.

The low altitude pretty much guarantees horrible snow conditions for most of the season where this project is located, so it is pretty important to listen to a resort with experience to make the best use of it. I think since Extel only wants to do what they want, Deer Valley doesn't want to be part of what will be an absolutely abysmal skiing experience.

The Extel part is of course rumors, but the part about Deer Valley not being happy with Deer Crest is a fact.

The entire project seems sad. Just a mass of huge, ugly buildings and it will just further crowd the Heber and Park City areas. The two places used to be such nice ski towns. I have a lot of great memories there, but now all the development just disgusts me.
The development saddens me as well. Vail has sold the PCMR parking lots and the mass development on the Canyons side that is currently underway is already shocking to me, let alone what it will be like once the developer who bought the lots gets started. I am one of the few on this forum that likes PCMR it seems like, but take away the convenient canyons parking and I won't bother to ever go go PCMR anymore.

And as far as Extell, they're a property developer. I think the whole ski resort thing is a gimmick to sell rhe associated condos and develop the area with hotels, etc. That Jordanelle area is undergoing a crazy amount of development and like yourself I fear it won't be done in the most tasteful manner. The worst part is Heber won't even benefit much from Mayflower as far as taxes go because of MIDA arrangement.

It makes sense for Mayflower to be a base for DV because of easier car access off highway 40 than the current base. But it makes no sense to me as a separate resort.
 

HardDaysNight

Making fresh tracks
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I know it’s unrealistic to try to hold back change but the extent to which the broader Park City area has been raped over the past several years is profoundly depressing. I’ve lived here since 1986 and it now bears almost no resemblance to that time. The 2002 Olympics started the rot - any benefits of that catastrophe have long since been dissipated and all that remains are the hordes of palookas and mamparas that flooded in to infest this beautiful place.
 

Wasatchman

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@HardDaysNight Palookas and mamparas haha. I thought they were a bunch of jongs but I think maybe I had it wrong and they may be mamparas after all (after looking up what the word meant).
 

SilverGaper

Booting up
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I have worked six winter seasons at Deer Valley and loved it, but I agree that the skiing at Park City is much better now that The Canyons is part of it. There is way more awesome off piste runs and their grooming has really been stepped up lately, at least on the Canyons side. I just haven't been around the PC side in recent years to check that out. They also spread out the crowds A LOT better. DV is getting absolutely packed at every lift including Mayflower. You will not ski fresh cord at DV after your first run... Period.



I fully agree and rape is the best way to describe it. I am glad that I was able to get some good years in PC and Heber before the Olympics, but I have tried twice now to move back there again and I just can't get over how depressing it is to see what it has become. It was such an amazing place before. I wish they did it how many other ski towns do it where you aren't allowed to build anything all over hillsides creating vast eyesores as far as the eye can see. I was born in Utah and I am just baffled how basically the entire state just carves out these disgusting residential areas in every single nook and cranny, high and low for everyone to see.

Agreed. The degree of rampant development is sad. Utah is the second driest state in the nation and pulling MORE water off the weber river (which this private resort will certainly do) is criminal. I do a lot of fishing and hiking in this state and late this summer stream flows were extremely low and some were completely dried up-something I had never seen before hoofing around these areas.

IMO, the Utah government mentality is very backwards with respect to conservation. WY, MT, and ID do things a lot better.
But what can one expect from a state whose motto is "industry" and and where a major oil refinery was built 1.5 nautical miles from the capitol city center??
 

Shawn C.

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Agreed. The degree of rampant development is sad. Utah is the second driest state in the nation and pulling MORE water off the weber river (which this private resort will certainly do) is criminal. I do a lot of fishing and hiking in this state and late this summer stream flows were extremely low and some were completely dried up-something I had never seen before hoofing around these areas.

IMO, the Utah government mentality is very backwards with respect to conservation. WY, MT, and ID do things a lot better.
But what can one expect from a state whose motto is "industry" and and where a major oil refinery was built 1.5 nautical miles from the capitol city center??

I struggle with this quite a bit. Utah is awesome but it is also true that Utah sucks.
The WPR development is particularly troubling in regards to the water management you described. All of that effort to help re-establish native cutthroat in the Weber River Basin, and for what? To have the river de-watered even more?
 

Steezus

Yucatan Suckaman
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Ketchum
Agreed. The degree of rampant development is sad. Utah is the second driest state in the nation and pulling MORE water off the weber river (which this private resort will certainly do) is criminal. I do a lot of fishing and hiking in this state and late this summer stream flows were extremely low and some were completely dried up-something I had never seen before hoofing around these areas.

IMO, the Utah government mentality is very backwards with respect to conservation. WY, MT, and ID do things a lot better.
But what can one expect from a state whose motto is "industry" and and where a major oil refinery was built 1.5 nautical miles from the capitol city center??

It absolutely blows my mind that the Great Salt Lake is rapidly drying and the Utah government doesn't care at all. I was reading about how the dry lake bed dust blows into the Wasatch and greatly accelerates the melting cycle of the snow. Then you have St George where having grass lawns should be banned, but instead that want to install a billion dollar pipeline to suck a reservoir dry that is already going to be dry in the not so distant future.

Now, I know exactly why the government is the way it is in Utah and it reflects very poorly on the populace. I was raised under this backwards mentality that allows a dry state to try and pretend like there is no water shortage, but I would have expected by now that people would wake up and demand action on such important matters.
 

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
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It absolutely blows my mind that the Great Salt Lake is rapidly drying and the Utah government doesn't care at all. I was reading about how the dry lake bed dust blows into the Wasatch and greatly accelerates the melting cycle of the snow. Then you have St George where having grass lawns should be banned, but instead that want to install a billion dollar pipeline to suck a reservoir dry that is already going to be dry in the not so distant future.

Now, I know exactly why the government is the way it is in Utah and it reflects very poorly on the populace. I was raised under this backwards mentality that allows a dry state to try and pretend like there is no water shortage, but I would have expected by now that people would wake up and demand action on such important matters.
Just noticed this comment. My observations as a non-native who has lived all over the country, west coast, east coast, midwest, is that the general attitude here is to never rock the boat. Don't question authority. Do what you're told and all will be well. It's an interesting mix with the libertarian attitudes that are also around.

That being said, yes, the salt lake is drying out more each year, the dust on windy days is horrific, and the legislature and governor are addressing the issue by proposing a huge inland port which now they are claiming will "help with supply chain issues" (hogwash) as all it will do is increase pollution even more. There actually are some who are addressing it, but are so far behind the 8-ball, I don't think it will do a bit of good. People here are so used to big lawns and growing hay, it'll never change soon enough.
 

Wasatchman

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Just noticed this comment. My observations as a non-native who has lived all over the country, west coast, east coast, midwest, is that the general attitude here is to never rock the boat. Don't question authority. Do what you're told and all will be well. It's an interesting mix with the libertarian attitudes that are also around.

That being said, yes, the salt lake is drying out more each year, the dust on windy days is horrific, and the legislature and governor are addressing the issue by proposing a huge inland port which now they are claiming will "help with supply chain issues" (hogwash) as all it will do is increase pollution even more. There actually are some who are addressing it, but are so far behind the 8-ball, I don't think it will do a bit of good. People here are so used to big lawns and growing hay, it'll never change soon enough.
Amy, an exerpt from today's Salt Lake Tribune

How much pollution will inland port bring?
Official concedes trains may bring more pollution than trucks; port authority also appears to be having issues with transloading facility.
By LEIA LARSEN · May 18, 2022
| The Salt Lake Tribune
“So there are some real problems with the language being used and the rationale being used to try and convince people that there isn’t going to be more air pollution here. Frankly, we just don’t believe it.” BRIAN MOENCH President of Utah Physicians for a Healthy Environment
State officials have shared additional details about the 16,000acre inland port taking shape in Salt Lake City’s northwest quadrant, including a network of 250 cameras that will collect data about vehicles.
And while the port’s supporters have touted increased rail capacity as a way to improve the Wasatch Front’s airshed, an inland port director acknowledged more trains could end up bringing with them more pollution.
 

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
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Amy, an exerpt from today's Salt Lake Tribune

How much pollution will inland port bring?
Official concedes trains may bring more pollution than trucks; port authority also appears to be having issues with transloading facility.
By LEIA LARSEN · May 18, 2022
| The Salt Lake Tribune
“So there are some real problems with the language being used and the rationale being used to try and convince people that there isn’t going to be more air pollution here. Frankly, we just don’t believe it.” BRIAN MOENCH President of Utah Physicians for a Healthy Environment
State officials have shared additional details about the 16,000acre inland port taking shape in Salt Lake City’s northwest quadrant, including a network of 250 cameras that will collect data about vehicles.
And while the port’s supporters have touted increased rail capacity as a way to improve the Wasatch Front’s airshed, an inland port director acknowledged more trains could end up bringing with them more pollution.
Yeah, the trains aren't exactly the cleanest. Funny, I had Brian Moench out to Morgan County to speak at a board meeting against a gravel pit that the county was going to decide on that was going to be located right next to where I lived. They planned to process asphalt, too. It was a zoning change, and I led the charge in the community to say no. It's now being developed into housing units. It was supposed to be a town square--parts of it might still be. Either way, I follow UPHE closely.
 

Wasatchman

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They have started to cut the ski runs. Lots of construction happening. For better or worse this project is really happening and I could see a ski lift(s) happening in 2023/2024.
 

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