New to skiing, top 5 tips/things to learn for a noob? any guides???

[LiquidFeet]

Thanks. The engineer’s favorite explanation, a DIAGRAM

How about a video? Here's a two-foot-pull-back. (Ignore the lifted tails part.) The skis are of course parallel; this ain't gonna go if skis are in a wedge. But you can close your ankles, or move the heels back. Just not together.

 

[jwtravel]

How about a video? Here's a two-foot-pull-back. (Ignore the lifted tails part.) The skis are of course parallel; this ain't gonna go if skis are in a wedge. But you can close your ankles, or move the heels back. Just not together.

How is it possible to do one without the other? If I close my ankles, I’m getting over the front of my skis, the net effect being that the heel moves back? This stuff is making this engineer feel dumb.
Update: “moving the heels back” means pulling them back towards your body?
I think I need to just do this without all the foreign terminology. My livelihood is in a business where words are always meant LITERALLY so I have to ask lots of questions about jargon and terminology in the sports realm. Thanks for answering patiently and for the video.

 

[Bienski]

This is kinda like trying to do calculus before you’ve learned your multiplication tables. It’s all about baby steps. Think Tim Conway baby steps. It will make sense when it’s time. Now is not the time.

 

[LiquidFeet]

How is it possible to do one without the other? If I close my ankles, I’m getting over the front of my skis, the net effect being that the heel moves back? This stuff is making this engineer feel dumb.
Update: “moving the heels back” means pulling them back towards your body?
I think I need to just do this without all the foreign terminology. My livelihood is in a business where words are always meant LITERALLY so I have to ask lots of questions about jargon and terminology in the sports realm. Thanks for answering patiently and for the video.

So yes indeed you are an engineer.

These are two ways of telling you to do the same thing. Moving the heels back is moving them behind you. AKA pulling the feet back.

So these two ways to produce the same effect, whose purpose is to help you stay out of the "back seat."
1. Move/slide your feet behind you. This puts your center of mass is ahead of your feet.
2. Move your center of mass forward by dorsiflexing your ankles. This puts your center of mass is ahead of your feet.

If you like engineer-type talk that's literal, then ski instructors use CoM for, well, center of mass, and BoS for base of support, AKA feet (or skis, which are extensions of the feet). Manipulating the relationship between these two, CoM to BoS, is a big deal for skiers. There is no one relationship to seek all the time, and you are a beginner so talking about how to manipulate these beyond trying to stay out of the back seat is premature.

I am now getting into verbiage that may put you in danger of the real "overthinking" mode. Please stop me if you are getting more confused instead of finding clarity. To avoid the "foreign terminology" you'll need a silent lesson, in person, on snow, with a ski instructor. Unfortunately the language of skiing is just going to be unfamiliar. All adult beginners go through this initiation period of wondering what on earth the words mean.

 

[jwtravel]

So yes indeed you are an engineer.

These are two ways of telling you to do the same thing. Moving the heels back is moving them behind you. AKA pulling the feet back.

So these two ways to produce the same effect, whose purpose is to help you stay out of the "back seat."
1. Move/slide your feet behind you. This puts your center of mass is ahead of your feet.
2. Move your center of mass forward by dorsiflexing your ankles. This puts your center of mass is ahead of your feet.

If you like engineer-type talk that's literal, then ski instructors use CoM for, well, center of mass, and BoS for base of support, AKA feet (or skis, which are extensions of the feet). Manipulating the relationship between these two, CoM to BoS, is a big deal for skiers. There is no one relationship to seek all the time, and you are a beginner so talking about how to manipulate these beyond trying to stay out of the back seat is premature.

I am now getting into verbiage that may put you in danger of the real "overthinking" mode. Please stop me if you are getting more confused instead of finding clarity. To avoid the "foreign terminology" you'll need a silent lesson, in person, on snow, with a ski instructor. Unfortunately the language of skiing is just going to be unfamiliar. All adult beginners go through this initiation period of wondering what on earth the words mean.

Lateral balance is where I’m really hurting right now, so I’ll work on that and try to forget this stuff for now

 

[Kneale Brownson]

Nooooooo. Don't "forget". Just put it aside as far as your mental focus goes. When working on one thing, you don't forget everything else. You need it ALL. There will always be something else to add. I've been at it for 76 years and still "discover" something every season.

 

[jwtravel]

Nooooooo. Don't "forget". Just put it aside as far as your mental focus goes. When working on one thing, you don't forget everything else. You need it ALL. There will always be something else to add. I've been at it for 76 years and still "discover" something every season.

Understood, I sometimes overstate things; obviously, the other aspects are always present

 

[vindibona1]

What does “pull the heel back” mean? That statement or term means nothing to me.

I'm not sure how to simplify that for you. But I'll try to explain the concept. Fore/aft body position is critical in maintaining control and efficient adjustments to pressure and edging. All of us wind up either in the back seat or minimally our COM being too far back in relation to the skis. While in motion how do you fix that? You have two choices: Move your body forward, which is mechanically disadvantageous. Or, you can simply pull your feet underneath you which is a ground up maneuver, which is always preferable. While your skis are moving and you don't have any friction underneath you it's pretty easy to push your feet forward or pull them back. And pulling your feet back underneath you is all that "pull your heels back" is suggesting. It's a two second demonstration on the slopes.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

You've probably encountered the shuffling exercise where you slide the feet back and forth half a boot length while in a turn. It's usually a "slide right foot forward slightly while sliding the left back slightly" drill. But you also can practice sliding them TOGETHER either forward or backward. That's a good drill on easy terrain.

 

[Fuller]

Lateral balance is where I’m really hurting right now, so I’ll work on that and try to forget this stuff for now

Some semi random thoughts for you, but applicable to every thread in this sub-forum I suppose:

It's always useful to overthink things that really interest you. As an adult learner I've made a point of educating myself as much as possible on all things skiing. Many of the higher level concepts I've absorbed don't have immediate application for me today but they are stored in memory for the time in the future when I can physically progress to the point of utilizing them. If you're an analytical geek, embrace it.

As an engineer you know that balance (in any direction) is simply a matter of positioning your COM over your BOS - dynamically. A good analog is balancing a rake or a broom on the tip of your finger (instead of raking the leaves like your Dad told you to do). With a little practice any kid can run around the back yard by moving his finger to control the direction of the rake. Note in this example there is zero input at the head of the rake only the tip of the handle. Skiers are different as they can move the upper body around as well as position their feet.

As an adult learner you will need a really big base of support to keep from falling over. But as your body starts to learn the movement patterns, the corrections needed to keep upright become smaller and more adaptable to rapid changes in terrain. You will learn to anticipate where you will need to be in order to navigate the slope instead of just reacting to it.

A major goal for any new skier is to be able to split that base of support into a left / right footed model with a seamless transition between the two. Skiing is a one footed sport. I've been working on improving my technique for 7 years and every year I've increased my understanding of just how true that statement is. It's the Swiss Army knife of your skiing toolbox and works (almost) in every situation,

If you stay on easy terrain for your practice sessions you can keep your brain out of survival mode and away from the fear of falling. Rather than contemplating your imminent destruction your brain can think and your body can feel how the pressure and movement of your skis is affecting travel down the slope. Learn how to learn, become aware of the obvious inputs that come from your body. Can you feel your shin touching the cuff of your leg (good). Are you staring at the tip of your skis all the time (not good).

Watch other skiers on your chair rides up the hill. What looks good to you? Can you figure out what the good skiers are doing or not doing? Perhaps not quite skiing specific but have you ever marveled at how the general public can discern between good and bad performance in any sport without ever directly experiencing it first hand? We have an innate appreciation for strong dynamic movement brought on with seemingly minimal effort. To me that is what drives my enjoyment on the mountain.

 

[jwtravel]

Some semi random thoughts for you, but applicable to every thread in this forum I suppose:

It's always useful to overthink things that really interest you. As an adult learner I've made a point of educating myself as much as possible on all things skiing. Many of the higher level concepts I've absorbed don't have immediate application for me today but they are stored in memory for the time in the future when I can physically progress to the point of utilizing them. If you're an analytical geek, embrace it.

As an engineer you know that balance (in any direction) is simply a matter of positioning your COM over your BOS - dynamically. A good analog is balancing a rake or a broom on the tip of your finger (instead of raking the leaves like your Dad told you to do). With a little practice any kid can run around the back yard by moving his finger to control the direction of the rake. Note in this example there is zero input at the head of the rake only the tip of the handle. Skiers are different as they can move the upper body around as well as position their feet.

As an adult learner you will need a really big base of support to keep from falling over. But as your body starts to learn the movement patterns, the corrections needed to keep upright become smaller and more adaptable to rapid changes in terrain. You will learn to anticipate where you will need to be in order to navigate the slope instead of just reacting to it.

A major goal for any new skier is to be able to split that base of support into a left / right footed model with a seamless transition between the two. Skiing is a one footed sport. I've been working on improving my technique for 7 years and every year I've increased my understanding of just how true that statement is. It's the Swiss Army knife of your skiing toolbox and works (almost) in every situation,

If you stay on easy terrain for your practice sessions you can keep your brain out of survival mode and away from the fear of falling. Rather than contemplating your imminent destruction your brain can think and your body can feel how the pressure and movement of your skis is affecting travel down the slope. Learn how to learn, become aware of the obvious inputs that come from your body. Can you feel your shin touching the cuff of your leg (good). Are you staring at the tip of your skis all the time (not good).

Watch other skiers on your chair rides up the hill. What looks good to you? Can you figure out what the good skiers are doing or not doing? Perhaps not quite skiing specific but have you ever marveled at how the general public can discern between good and bad performance in any sport without ever directly experiencing it first hand? We have an innate appreciation for strong dynamic movement brought on with seemingly minimal effort. To me that is what drives my enjoyment on the mountain.

I’m finding it almost impossible, at least on the really shallow slopes, to “put weight” on one side or the other. I can ever so briefly lift one ski or the other as a way to confirm that I’m balancing on the remaining ski, but staying like that is very difficult for me. It feels easier as I go faster, but then my turning skills keep me in survival mode. The “one footed” aspect of this sport really shocked me as I started getting into it. I never would have guessed it by watching skiers that basically one ski at a time was doing most of the work. It is also the aspect that will ultimately limit how far I can go with it. Ice skating, as awful as I am so far, is something I can do year round in the Midwest that challenges me to improve my foot to foot balance. If I don’t improve much more in skating, it probably means I’ll get a similar outcome with skiing. Balance may be perishable with age and it might be limited by a “youth window of opportunity” - neuroplasticity? At least my obsession with skiing got me to lose 30 pounds and to try new things. I think another year/10 more days skiing (20 total days) should be enough to know if I have the ability to “balance on the outside ski”, not just muscular strength but neurological ability to make the intention happen.

 

[SSSdave]

As a non-instructor I'll add something unique here for never-evers I've made a few acquaintances perform. After putting on awkward rigid ski boots then becoming stuck into bindings atop long skis, a human's brain may be confused and awkward as to making any 2 footed stable balanced movement, much less skiing movements.

So before going to any lift line have them practice walking around for say 15 minutes in uneven though generally level terrain at a resort base including small gentle slopes of a few feet. By using a normal 2 foot left right left right... stepping motion moving about, one's subconscious brain may begin to understand how to do so naturally by the way such feels especially the advantage of feeling edges instead of flat footing. They will also notice how to climb even a slight short slope requires using edges to not slide backwards. Thus a half hour later when they say take a beginner class, they are more comfortable making first movements the way our brains expect to step.

 

[jwtravel]

Some semi random thoughts for you, but applicable to every thread in this sub-forum I suppose:

It's always useful to overthink things that really interest you. As an adult learner I've made a point of educating myself as much as possible on all things skiing. Many of the higher level concepts I've absorbed don't have immediate application for me today but they are stored in memory for the time in the future when I can physically progress to the point of utilizing them. If you're an analytical geek, embrace it.

As an engineer you know that balance (in any direction) is simply a matter of positioning your COM over your BOS - dynamically. A good analog is balancing a rake or a broom on the tip of your finger (instead of raking the leaves like your Dad told you to do). With a little practice any kid can run around the back yard by moving his finger to control the direction of the rake. Note in this example there is zero input at the head of the rake only the tip of the handle. Skiers are different as they can move the upper body around as well as position their feet.

As an adult learner you will need a really big base of support to keep from falling over. But as your body starts to learn the movement patterns, the corrections needed to keep upright become smaller and more adaptable to rapid changes in terrain. You will learn to anticipate where you will need to be in order to navigate the slope instead of just reacting to it.

A major goal for any new skier is to be able to split that base of support into a left / right footed model with a seamless transition between the two. Skiing is a one footed sport. I've been working on improving my technique for 7 years and every year I've increased my understanding of just how true that statement is. It's the Swiss Army knife of your skiing toolbox and works (almost) in every situation,

If you stay on easy terrain for your practice sessions you can keep your brain out of survival mode and away from the fear of falling. Rather than contemplating your imminent destruction your brain can think and your body can feel how the pressure and movement of your skis is affecting travel down the slope. Learn how to learn, become aware of the obvious inputs that come from your body. Can you feel your shin touching the cuff of your leg (good). Are you staring at the tip of your skis all the time (not good).

Watch other skiers on your chair rides up the hill. What looks good to you? Can you figure out what the good skiers are doing or not doing? Perhaps not quite skiing specific but have you ever marveled at how the general public can discern between good and bad performance in any sport without ever directly experiencing it first hand? We have an innate appreciation for strong dynamic movement brought on with seemingly minimal effort. To me that is what drives my enjoyment on the mountain.

I have heard that my enjoyment will increase as I learn which muscles I can quit clenching

 

[slowrider]

Hold my beer & watch this. Just kidding. Alcohol consumption when skiing can be a 2 edge sword. After skiing is a good time.

 

[jwtravel]

As a non-instructor I'll add something unique here for never-evers I've made a few acquaintances perform. After putting on awkward rigid ski boots then becoming stuck into bindings atop long skis, a human's brain may be confused and awkward as to making any 2 footed stable balanced movement, much less skiing movements.

So before going to any lift line have them practice walking around for say 15 minutes in uneven though generally level terrain at a resort base including small gentle slopes of a few feet. By using a normal 2 foot left right left right... stepping motion moving about, one's subconscious brain may begin to understand how to do so naturally by the way such feels especially the advantage of feeling edges instead of flat footing. They will also notice how to climb even a slight short slope requires using edges to not slide backwards. Thus a half hour later when they say take a beginner class, they are more comfortable making first movements the way our brains expect to step.

I’ll try the walking thing next to train my brain and body. I hope something clicks. It’s driving me crazy, but it’s better than bitching and moaning about the cold and getting fat in the winter.

 

[Fuller]

I have heard that my enjoyment will increase as I learn which muscles I can quit clenching

It's true, being clenched up is a result of your built in mechanism for staying upright but it doesn't add to your skiing ability or enjoyment. You need time in the saddle - as much as you can afford and your body will tolerate. You pretty much have to be obsessed with it for a while. The one footed aspect is a natural progression of the learning curve, right now you need two feet which is OK.

Remember, although skiing is a lifetime of learning you can have a whole lot of fun as a very poor skier. The sheer number of clueless people laughing and giggling their way down the mountain is a testament to that fact. They look ridiculous but they're having fun! I myself came to the conclusion that I had to temper my desire for immediate gratification in order to progress.

 

[Corgski]

I’m finding it almost impossible, at least on the really shallow slopes, to “put weight” on one side or the other. I can ever so briefly lift one ski or the other as a way to confirm that I’m balancing on the remaining ski, but staying like that is very difficult for me. It feels easier as I go faster, but then my turning skills keep me in survival mode. The “one footed” aspect of this sport really shocked me as I started getting into it. I never would have guessed it by watching skiers that basically one ski at a time was doing most of the work.

Your initial impression was correct, generally people are not out there balancing on one ski. Having most of your weight on your outside ski is very different from actually balancing on one ski without the other ski providing at least some stability.

You do not seem to have accumulated chronic injuries like many of us have. If this is true, this advantage outweighs most of the disadvantages you perceive. Protect that by being wary of falling and stupid training. I started at 46, despite being fairly good on balancing moves on a climbing wall I had the dynamic balance of a toddler. Really was about day 15 before I stopped being totally embarrassing on skis. It takes time, but yes it will happen.

In the short term, focus on developing a range of ski skills, sidestepping (seems lame but actually worthwhile), side slipping, skating on skis, edging, pivoting. Use your slower start to your advantage and focus on becoming a technical skier. People who start off with the athletic ability to hit difficult slopes quickly often find it difficult to step back, slow down and develop good technique.

People with have a strong athletic background can neglect strength, people like you and me (high school chess team) can not. Traditional (NO Crossfit) barbell training is the only way to develop the strength you need with a modest amount of effort. Find a trainer who works with older adults. Ideal for people who do not like training, the actual exercise part is only minutes, with most of the of the time taken by resting between sets and setting up the equipment. And contrary to the stupid exercise stuff our generation was taught, it actually works. Someone like yourself who has not trained before and is not dealing with chronic injuries, may be able to increase their strength 50% within 6 months (yes, at your age). Also helps with general coordination and balance.

 

[Bienski]

Sorry to add yet another suggestion, but I am a huge advocate of kettlebell training. I prefer it to barbells for strength work. I am just trying to present another option for jwtravel, not looking to start a debate one vs. the other. The kettlebell gym I have used does incorporate barbell work also. That being said, if you have access to a reputable kettlebell gym, check it out. (preferably RKC certified). If it’s something you are interested in I would suggest taking a few lessons to refine your technique to avoid injury. Not difficult to master with a little guidance and then it can be done at home.

Also you mentioned ice skating year round which must mean you have access to indoor ice. In-line skating is yet another option, especially since you have all of the protective gear. Start in a parking lot or on a tennis court and then move to flat, let me repeat flat, bike paths. Anything around a lake is pretty safe.

Enjoy your journey and congratulations on the weight loss.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

JW: To work on balance/edging, Corgski nailed it with suggestions to practice sidestepping and side slipping. Go find a steep side hill. Your sidestepping can pack the snow and your side slipping can smooth it out. You will NEED to edge your skis to sidestep. You will NEED to balance to release your edges enough to sideslip.

In the short term, focus on developing a range of ski skills, sidestepping (seems lame but actually worthwhile), side slipping, skating on skis, edging, pivoting. Use your slower start to your advantage and focus on becoming a technical skier. People who start off with the athletic ability to hit difficult slopes quickly often find it difficult to step back, slow down and develop good technique.

 

[jwtravel]

It's true, being clenched up is a result of your built in mechanism for staying upright but it doesn't add to your skiing ability or enjoyment. You need time in the saddle - as much as you can afford and your body will tolerate. You pretty much have to be obsessed with it for a while. The one footed aspect is a natural progression of the learning curve, right now you need two feet which is OK.

Remember, although skiing is a lifetime of learning you can have a whole lot of fun as a very poor skier. The sheer number of clueless people laughing and giggling their way down the mountain is a testament to that fact. They look ridiculous but they're having fun! I myself came to the conclusion that I had to temper my desire for immediate gratification in order to progress.

Even when I have a frustrating run or one that scares the crap out of me, I always find myself making a beeline to the lift to go back up for more. As much as I try to dig for excuses to quit, I am just kidding myself because I still have to force myself to stop for lunch or just a break wherever I’m skiing. I’m hooked but throwing a tantrum about what I see as slow progress.