Numb toes - Boots too small?

[CrystalRose]

So a couple of weeks ago I had my first boot fitting. My left foot measures at 28 and the right at 27.5, I measured my last at 95 mm. I was trying on 27.5 boots. Towards the middle of my fitting I had particular boot on for over 30 minutes and I asked to try it on in a 26.5. Very tight! I can get 1 finger behind my left heel and a little more in the right. I ended up buying that boot (with a Superfeet footbed), a Head Evo Vector 90 in 26.5 (last 100). My fitter advised that I wear my boots for around an hour every few days and make note of any pressure points, etc.

Well, my middle toe to my pinky toe go numb after about 20 minutes. They stay numb off and on for the next few days. I've taken the liner out and wore them by themselves with no issues. When I put it back in the shell, my big toe is jammed up against the front on both boots. My toe isn't just touching the front, its making love with it. When I flex the boot my toes pull away but standing upright = instant pain. Other than that I feel no weird pressure so I don't know why my toes fall asleep... buckles over the top of the foot are unbuckled and top 2 are as loose as possible BTW.

I'm really concerned I may be causing permanent nerve damage to my feet especially since the sensation doesn't go away until days later. I really enjoy skiing but I'm not try to develop something like a neuroma because of it. I figure my options are:

1. Ski in the boots and hope on the hill is better.
2. Get the big toe blown out in both boots. If they blow them out I feel there's no turning back or returning the boot. I'd have to keep tweaking them with the hope they turn out right.
3. Go to the bigger size. I don't remember what the overall fit was like for it, but I remember the numbness never appeared.

How do I determine which is the best option? Right now the boots aren't modified in any way besides having the liners heat molded. I can still exchange them at this point.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

My left foot is 23.5 and my right is 24. I'm in a 23.5 boot. My left foot fine, fine, fine, I could sleep in the ski boot. Right foot suffers. I have custom footbeds and a heel lift in my right boot. Added to my size issue I have a bone spur (6th toe) in my right foot so in addition to the sizing down my right foot is generally not a happy camper. What Nick my fitter did was make me a toe condo for my right foot (blew out the toe area) in that section. I still have a tiny bit of discomfort after a bunch of hours or the second day so this past October he gave my toe condo an expansion ie stretched out the toe area a little more. I'm not advising what to do here, just sharing my experience. I'm sure da pros have sold solid advice for you.

 

[kimberlin]

Just want to add, that you must make sure---if you have not already---that you are wearing the thinnest ski sock you can find. You'd be surprised at how tight a boot can feel with even a smidge of extra thickness. My feet are not quite the same size either, and the sock is really key.

 

[CrystalRose]

Thanks @surfsnowgirl it does help just knowing that you ski your measured sized (in at least one foot) with no ill effects. The bigger of my feet didn't have any issue in the 27.5...

@kimberlin thanks for this too. I'm in a polypropylene sock liner which is pretty thin, almost pantyhose thin. When I pull the liner to wear alone I put on the thickest sock I own hoping to pack out the liner. When I put the boot back together and switch back into the sock liner it does feel looser but maybe not enough...

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Thanks @surfsnowgirl it does help just knowing that you ski your measured sized (in at least one foot) with no ill effects. The bigger of my feet didn't have any issue in the 27.5...

@kimberlin thanks for this too. I'm in a polypropylene sock liner which is pretty thin, almost pantyhose thin. When I pull the liner to wear alone I put on the thickest sock I own hoping to pack out the liner. When I put the boot back together and switch back into the sock liner it does feel looser but maybe not enough...

My first pair of ski boots my old fitter threw me in a 24 which was the size of my right (bigger foot). All was spectacular until it wasn't. That is toe pain I've never experienced before in my life. The liner was bent and crushing my toes in my right foot, still remember that day when I could barely ski down hill as I was in tears from the pain. I then migrated over to my new fitter who saved me. Yeah my left foot is fabulous when I got sized down, I hate using the term comfortable when describing a ski boot fit but it was like a fabulously strong firm handshake. Right, foot the bigger one is the "fun" foot. I also have things like legs are 2 different sizes, one foot is flat, the other has an arch. I call my boot guy St. Nick. Lots of luck to you cause I understand foot pain. Second the note on thin socks, I have these slime green smart wool socks that are very thin and I love them. Sounds like you are good there.

 

[coskigirl]

Most boot fitters will guarantee their fit even after things like blowing out toes. I had a pair last year that we tried to adjust but in the end we just couldn't get it to a a good place and so the fitter exchanged. Heck they didn't even charge me the difference for the higher priced new boot. Here's the full story if you're interested. https://forum.pugski.com/threads/a-bootfitting-saga.3704/

 

[CrystalRose]

Unfortunately for me I think my fitter has a "you ski it, you bought it policy". I can always call him and find out for sure and get his opinion on what to do.

 

[Norther1]

I would go back and bring the boots with you--ask the fitter their opinion on what they would do to solve the numb toes issue (blow out, exchange size etc)
Boots are supposed to be tight, and may feel somewhat uncomfortable at first but they shouldn't be causing numbness that lasts for days after you remove the boots--that seems like a big red flag to me; the last thing you want is nerve damage. Unless you're trying out for the U.S Ski Team, skiing should be fun, not something that causes lasting damage to your nerves.

 

[Jilly]

Or black toe nails. Maybe next summer I won't have any.

 

[CrystalRose]

Yep I called and I'm going back this weekend. I hope we find a solution. Toes are numb as I type this and the last time I had them on was Sunday. I might try on other boots or get a bigger size. Unlike many here, I just hope to get 10 days a season so I don't know how much concern I should have about them packing out. I ski bell to bell but otherwise they won't be under strenuous use.

 

[François Pugh]

Were I you, I would not hesitate to get those boots stretched/punched out at the appropriate place, or maybe have the liner thinned out where they are being pressed into that vein on the top of your foot, or maybe shave the bottom of the sole so you have more volume.

It's not unusual at all for boots to require work to make them fit. A lot of people don't think they need to do anything to their boots, just because they bought them way too big. They (folks with boots three sizes too big) don't know how much easier it is to control skis with boots that fit well.

 

[otto]

A guy goes in to see his doctor and exclaims... " Doc, Doc, my eyes really hurt when I jam sharpened pencils into them'" the doctor straight faces the guy and says, "stop doing that"

Read between the lines... You should not be trying on your boots at home at all!!! Much less the inner boot alone with oversized socks on your feet!!!

Putting your ski boot on in your house is a worthless exercise. There is no leverage that will break the liner in while standing or walking in your house. The only way to break in a boot is to go skiing on it. The liner can only break-in while it is inside the shell and you are skiing on it.

When a new boot fit customer calls our shop to tell us that the new boot they just bought is causing their foot to fall asleep, the first question we ask over the phone is how many days have you skied in the boot? When they answer, "oh I haven't skied in them", We at that point re-explain the exit conversation after they bought the boot. Which involves the specific technique for properly getting into the boot, pulling the liner up from the collar to properly seat the the heel to the back of the boot. The correct order to buckle the buckles to use the top cuff strap to lever the shin against the tongue so that the heel moves to the back, the toes move away from the front, and the instep is in the fattest part of the boot. Then and only then you buckle the ankle and instep buckle tight enough to hold the foot down and back in the boot. And last a reminder to only use the fit sock that we sold you or checked out for you while you were there for the fitting. We remind the skier to only put on the boots to ski because break-in only takes place on the hill. As well as a reminder that the boots are the tightest they will be in the first few days of skiing and they may find it necessary to unbuckle the boots on the lift for the first few days, but to buckle them down anytime you descend the mountain.

Boiled down:

Never wear your ski boots in the house to break them in.
Do not purchase a boot from a retailer that does not guarantee the fit before or after you have skied it.
There is a good chance that the model choice your fitter selected is too voluminous for your foot and does not hold your foot down and back. Although it might be hard for you to figure out until you ski and get your instep and ankle buckles tightened down.

Good luck getting your purchase sussed out.

 

[Magi]

Unfortunately for me I think my fitter has a "you ski it, you bought it policy". I can always call him and find out for sure and get his opinion on what to do.

... Do not purchase a boot from a retailer that does not guarantee the fit before [AND] after you have skied it. ...

Otto is absolutely correct. If your bootfitter does not conform to the "I guarantee to make this work fabulously or I'll make this right" policy - return the boot immediately and find another bootfitter.

(Ever notice how almost all great bootfitters live at/next to a mountain? Go figure.)

Yep I called and I'm going back this weekend. I hope we find a solution. Toes are numb as I type this and the last time I had them on was Sunday. I might try on other boots or get a bigger size. Unlike many here, I just hope to get 10 days a season so I don't know how much concern I should have about them packing out. I ski bell to bell but otherwise they won't be under strenuous use.

A good bootfitter will have lots of options for making you more room for your toes - crushing or removing foam from the liner to make room, expanding the toe box through stretching (generally preferred) or grinding, possibly alterations to the footbed / your alignment inside the boot.

 

[CrystalRose]

Read between the lines... You should not be trying on your boots at home at all!!! Much less the inner boot alone with oversized socks on your feet!!!

Putting your ski boot on in your house is a worthless exercise. There is no leverage that will break the liner in while standing or walking in your house. The only way to break in a boot is to go skiing on it. The liner can only break-in while it is inside the shell and you are skiing on it.

As for the sock - I'm sure it wasn't the correct approach but I was very systematic with trying to find the problem. I put on the liner alone, with no sock, to see if it was the cause of my numbness. Then my liner sock and then the thick sock hoping to give myself just a little space. My feet never went to sleep in just the liner.

I wouldn't say it's a worthless exercise. I now know I don't want this boot. My fitter told me to try it on at home, not to break in the liner, but to determine any hot spots, pressure points, etc. And now that I'm on day 4 of toe numbness after trying the boot on I know I don't want it. If I had tried it on and they came back 30 minutes to an hour later I would be inclined to agree with you.

As for how to put the boot on on, I'm doing everything you laid out. But thanks for your assessment of the situation, I can see your point.

Otto is absolutely correct. If your bootfitter does not conform to the "I guarantee to make this work fabulously or I'll make this right" policy - return the boot immediately and find another bootfitter.

(Ever notice how almost all great bootfitters live at/next to a mountain? Go figure.)

A good bootfitter will have lots of options for making you more room for your toes - crushing or removing foam from the liner to make room, expanding the toe box through stretching (generally preferred) or grinding, possibly alterations to the footbed / your alignment inside the boot.

Believe it or not, this fitter is at the mountain and I drove quite a ways to see him, but his lack of confidence in his own work has me second guessing. I had mentioned my feet falling asleep in the shop but he told me not worry. I would be inclined to modify the boot but he put a lot of stipulations on doing so. Which means he might not make it work and I'm stuck with a boot that is miserable.

 

[surfsnowgirl]

Good luck. When I had terrible crunching toe foot pain I hobbled back in to my fitter at the time. I'd skied the boot for the better part of the season and she was so mortified the liner was crunching my toes that she exchanged the boot for me for an entirely different boot in a half size down. Best part was that I got $100 back because my new boot was cheaper. @CrystalRose good luck. Glad you are going back this weekend. Hopefully they will take care of you.

 

[Bill Seddon]

Err toes being numb 4 days later doesn't sound right at all. Have you seen a doctor??

 

[CrystalRose]

Just re-read this and this stood out:

Boiled down:

Never wear your ski boots in the house to break them in.
Do not purchase a boot from a retailer that does not guarantee the fit before or after you have skied it.
There is a good chance that the model choice your fitter selected is too voluminous for your foot and does not hold your foot down and back. Although it might be hard for you to figure out until you ski and get your instep and ankle buckles tightened down.

Good luck getting your purchase sussed out.

I've measured my foot as low volume. 26 over the instep vs my 27.5/28 foot and this is not a low volume boot... Hmmm... may be something to consider...

Err toes being numb 4 days later doesn't sound right at all. Have you seen a doctor??

The numbness isn't all day but it pops up throughout and is very annoying. Really, I probably should but I have a feeling they aren't going to be helpful. Had something similar in my hands and they said "Take some Advil, this is your life now." essentially .

 

[Tricia]

My toe isn't just touching the front, its making love with it. When I flex the boot my toes pull away but standing upright = instant pain. Other than that I feel no weird pressure so I don't know why my toes fall asleep... buckles over the top of the foot are unbuckled and top 2 are as loose as possible BTW.

When you stand upright in a 1 finger fit, your toes should be pressed hard into the front of the boot. When you flex into a ski position, your toes should pull back slightly but still be brushing the front of the boot. Keep in mind that your not really feeling the shell, but the liner, which will pack out a bit.
What socks are you wearing? BE sure to wear the same socks that you used when you were fitted (or something really similar)
Quite often a numb toe issue is because of a vein on the top of the foot or instep is being pressed, but there are other things that could be going on as well.

*I see Otto has chimed in. He's got some great input.

 

[CrystalRose]

UPDATE: I decided to try another fitter closer to home. I went in with no expectations other than maybe disappointment. So when he only measured my foot length wise, stuck 2 fingers under my arch, and just eyeballed it all I did was mentally shrug. He went to the back for awhile a pulled 2 low volume boots for me (without any prompting from me). The first (a Lange RX) felt ok. But the 2nd felt great! Like it was just shaped to my foot. It's an Atomic Hawx Ultra 100 and I tried it in a 27.5. I can definitely feel the front but it isn't painfully like the 26.5 is. I decided this time not to size down because it felt so perfect everywhere else. There isn't any movement anywhere. Even when I flexed the toes don't move as much because I'm held in the heel pocket so much better. The numbness sensation never did appear.
The best part: they guarantee the fit for the life of the boot!

I guess @otto called it. I needed a low volume boot.

Thanks for all of your advice. Now to ski it and see if it was the best choice .

 

[Lauren]

Read between the lines... You should not be trying on your boots at home at all!!! Much less the inner boot alone with oversized socks on your feet!!!

Putting your ski boot on in your house is a worthless exercise. There is no leverage that will break the liner in while standing or walking in your house. The only way to break in a boot is to go skiing on it. The liner can only break-in while it is inside the shell and you are skiing on it.

Just curious...could you (or someone else knowledgeable in this area) elaborate on the bolded points? I've never heard anyone say that you shouldn't be trying your boots on at home (especially with such exclamation). I understand that they won't break in like they would if you were skiing in them. But to not be able to break them in at all by wearing them in your home, seems counter intuitive to me...so looking to gain a little knowledge here.