Oil Change Intervals / Dealership Recommended Intervals

[DanoT]

Even among brands, using 1 product to represent a whole product-line is like saying I took out a pair of rossi skis they were terrible, so I don't use rossignol skis anymore

^^^This is actually a kinda bad example that has been used here.

As a ski demo centre rental tech I can tell you that I have more than once encountered skiers who have had a bad experience with a ski and forevermore will not buy, demo, or rent anything from that brand.

 

[chilehed]

What do most people here do, use the monitor or change every 5,000 or 6,000?

I work at GM, was an engine lube and vent engineer around the time we rolled out the monitor and know the folks who developed it, the details of how it works and how reliable it is. I'm a believer, it's a great feature.

 

[Idris]

I drive an '06 VW transporter which was a German Post van. The recomended schedule was 30,000km about 20,000miles - massive oil filter and very expensive (over €200 per fill) oil. I run 10,000km (6000miles) and whatever european made Synthetic to VW specs happens to be cheapest (normally about €60 per fill). I don't ever expect oil issues. It helps that this engine came in 4 hp raitings. Regular, more, sill fast and reduced (for fleet use) . Mine is the reduced....not quick off the lights but will still cruise over any posted highway limit.

 

[Uncle-A]

I thought I would jump in again with this question. A brand new vehicle with original factory oil, how long before you do the first oil change and do you use time or miles?

 

[François Pugh]

If I wanted to keep the car forever, or if it comes from a manufacturer not known for their long-lasting engine parts, half the regular oil change interval. Otherwise, if from a quality engine manufacturer and I was only going to keep the car 10 to 20 years (until built in obsolescence makes buying a new car cheaper than paying for repairs) I would just follow the owner's manual recommendations.

 

[Zrxman01]

Bob Is The Oil Guy

Bob Is The Oil Guy

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[DanoT]

I thought I would jump in again with this question. A brand new vehicle with original factory oil, how long before you do the first oil change and do you use time or miles?

I don't drive that much and I have 3 vehicles, so I change oil yearly, including the 1st oil change (synthetic 0w20) for my 2019 Tacoma. My Toyota dealer recommends changing oil every 6 months or 8k kms (5k miles) but I do less than 8k kms in a year so I am staying with yearly oil changes.

In any event, if going by the owners manual I always choose "severe usage" (mostly stop and go city driving) as the guide regardless of actual usage.

 

[James]

I thought I would jump in again with this question. A brand new vehicle with original factory oil, how long before you do the first oil change and do you use time or miles?

3-5k for the first. I would say if you go past 6mos wthout reaching that then change it.

Long trips and highway are much easier on oil then short. Esp if it’s so short the oil barely gets warm.
With direct injection motors these days, the intake valves never get cleaned by fuel. Last I checked, Ford has no approved method of cleaning with the heads on. I think mainly because of risk of chunks getting into the turbo. So clean air and clean oil is important.

 

[Andy Mink]

I did my '06 Cummins at 5000 with dino oil. My '18 Cummins has a minder on it and it goes a long way past 5K. Even past 10K. Kinda freaks me out. It's hard to break old habits!

 

[Uncle-A]

I don't drive that much and I have 3 vehicles, so I change oil yearly, including the 1st oil change (synthetic 0w20) for my 2019 Tacoma. My Toyota dealer recommends changing oil every 6 months or 8k kms (5k miles) but I do less than 8k kms in a year so I am staying with yearly oil changes.

In any event, if going by the owners manual I always choose "severe usage" (mostly stop and go city driving) as the guide regardless of actual usage.

I also have multiple vehicles, brand new Jeep Cherokee 6 cylinder. Now 6 months old but only about 900 miles. I am thinking I should change the oil but not sure if I should wait for higher miles.

 

[raytseng]

With direct injection motors these days, the intake valves never get cleaned by fuel. Last I checked, Ford has no approved method of cleaning with the heads on. I think mainly because of risk of chunks getting into the turbo. So clean air and clean oil is important.

to get pedantic though, the issue with DI engines and carbon due to oil has to do with PCV system, oil and crankcase gas volatility. Oil vaporizing contributes to deposits in particular engine designs, that don't have additional mitigating systems.
So if you change your oil extremely frequently and with certain cheaper oils, this frequent change may actually increase carbon issues. The amount of oil that vaporizes is selectively more in new oil then oil that already been in service. The noack numbers will help guide picking a low volatility oil, but even a low noack oil will selectively vaporize most when new vs say after 20hrs in service.

This really is only for those specific engines that are prone to this carbon issue. And I would bet any new engines now won't have carbon issues or differences if you follow or even within the ballpark of 200% of the manuals oci

 

[Bruuuce]

I use the advice I got from the guy I consider to be the best mechanic/tech I've ever known. He said:

- If you bought new, change the oil within the first 500-1000 miles to get rid of any production residue that may be there.
- If you have a turbo, and you want to keep the car long term, change the oil every 5K miles or yearly. That's way more than recommended but cheap insurance on the turbo. This also applied to DI engines. Driving habits matter of course. All long highway trips and that can be extended.
- If you don't have a turbo or DI, change oil according to the severe manual recommendations or indicator. Change at least once/year regardless of mileage. All other fluids change at the standard intervals.

That's worked well for me with multiple cars going strong at 200K when I sold them.

 

[James]

to get pedantic though, the issue with DI engines and carbon due to oil has to do with PCV system, oil and crankcase gas volatility. Oil vaporizing contributes to deposits in particular engine designs, that don't have additional mitigating systems.
So if you change your oil extremely frequently and with certain cheaper oils, this frequent change may actually increase carbon issues. The amount of oil that vaporizes is selectively more in new oil then oil that already been in service. The noack numbers will help guide picking a low volatility oil, but even a low noack oil will selectively vaporize most when new vs say after 20hrs in service.

This really is only for those specific engines that are prone to this carbon issue. And I would bet any new engines now won't have carbon issues or differences if you follow or even within the ballpark of 200% of the manuals oci

I don’t think that’s pedantic. I agree.
Definitely the reason to go with a high quality synthetic oil.


Family had a turbo on a 2016 that went at just under 70k. Oil was changed regularly probably nearer the 5k interval. Who knows why that happened. Could be from too much demand around town before warmed up.

Apparently, direct injection engines produce more soot than port injection. This soot gets into the oil. It’s pretty damn complicated though. See this-

Characterisation of soot in oil from a gasoline direct injection engine using Transmission Electron Microscopy

In this work, an investigation of soot-in-oil samples drawn from the oil sump of a gasoline direct injection (GDI) engine was carried out. Soot partic…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[raytseng]

I don’t think that’s pedantic. I agree.
Definitely the reason to go with a high quality synthetic oil.


Family had a turbo on a 2016 that went at just under 70k. Oil was changed regularly probably nearer the 5k interval. Who knows why that happened. Could be from too much demand around town before warmed up.

Apparently, direct injection engines produce more soot than port injection. This soot gets into the oil. It’s pretty damn complicated though. See this-

Characterisation of soot in oil from a gasoline direct injection engine using Transmission Electron Microscopy

In this work, an investigation of soot-in-oil samples drawn from the oil sump of a gasoline direct injection (GDI) engine was carried out. Soot partic…

www.sciencedirect.com

Agree, the soot in the oil though, is a reason for using a high quality oil filter!

To add on, I also believe the same technicality of "new isn't always best" also applies to air/oil filters.

Brand new fresh filters passing more particles until they've been in service for some time until the oversized holes get blocked off. So as long as the filter is not restricted, and able to flow more enough oil/air then required, you shouldn't obsessively replace them (been there done that).

Will it make a real life practical difference? Probably not, this may make your car go for a 1,050,000 miles instead of 1,000,000 miles from the technical correctness. So overall it's just a justification that you don't need to obsess, nor overmaintain.

 

[tball]

Apparently, direct injection engines produce more soot than port injection. This soot gets into the oil. It’s pretty damn complicated though.

This is a great video going over the plusses and minuses of port and direct injection in nice detail:

 

[François Pugh]

Don't have 20 minutes to watch the video at the moment, but I'll just add for those other's who also may not. Some gasoline direct injection engines have the injectors as the only source of gasoline. Others have a dual system with some gasoline being put in above the intake valves, which allows the gasoline (a solvent) to help keep the valves clean.
P.S. It's not just oil. Make sure you use clean gasoline too.

 

[tball]

A takeaway from the video is to add an oil catch can if you have a direct injection (only) engine to reduced carbon build up on the valves. More in another long video here

 

[crgildart]

Wait, isn't what the OIL light on every car dash is for? Drive it til that light comes on then put 3 more quarts in right??



Seriously though, I just do both cars every 6 months. Thanksgiving weekend and Memorial day weekend I'll spend 45 minutes shuffling them around the driveway and up the rams to git-r-dun.

 

[Bill Talbot]

A takeaway from the video is to add an oil catch can if you have a direct injection (only) engine to reduced carbon build up on the valves. More in another long video here

Also in pressurized applications because the oil mist coating will severely limit the heat rejection in the intercooler.

 

[James]

As temperature drops a richer mixture is needed to ensure robust starting, which increases the amount of unburned fuel that gets past the piston rings and into the oil; also, in those same conditions the water in the blowby gasses condenses into the oil more readily. If you don't let the oil heat up enough to vaporize that fuel and water, over time the concentrations build up until it adversely affects how well the lubricant can do its job. The oil heats up at a different rate than the coolant, so looking at the coolant temp gauge doesn't tell you what you need to know regarding this.

My experience is that idling in a parking lot can take a really long time to do it. The super-efficient test engineer method can get it done in about 20 minutes or so at -35C. Most people can get by fine if they just drive it around for an hour once a week.

So what do you think of catch cans for turbo GDI engines?