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The Never-Ending Peak By Bode Miller Skis Discussion Thread

JCF

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Elan will be doing a lot more than “just building the skis”. The molds will have been designed by Elan and their toolmaker, which is likely to be Plamtex int d.o.o https://www.plamtex.si/tool-making/ski-molds/ Plamtex is located in Komenda, which is about 25 miles from the Elan factory. Peak will have had to pay for them, but Bode will have had no involvement in their design and manufacture.

So is this a Bode using Elan resources project ? or, (sounds like - if the above is true) an Elan using Bode marketability thing…
Either way works - If the skis go - why not ?
 

James

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Well I certainly wouldn’t want Bode and Andy Wirth designing any molds or doing engineering.
Meanwhile, people are gaga over their garage engineered and built skis. Makes no sense.
 

David Chaus

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Well I certainly wouldn’t want Bode and Andy Wirth designing any molds or doing engineering.
Meanwhile, people are gaga over their garage engineered and built skis. Makes no sense.
Maybe they'll include some Amphibio in the design.
 

skipress

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He doesn't have to. We saw 3-4 pairs of them and all had different bindings on them. We are using Salomon Strives, which actually Bode liked and might start. Elan is just building the skis, other than the 88, they are all Bode's own molds.
You might not know but are these being sold 'flat' - buy em and go to a local store for your binding of choice or will they be shipped with a binding. They each have knock ons when the buyer interacts with a shop
Elan will be doing a lot more than “just building the skis”. The molds will have been designed by Elan and their toolmaker, which is likely to be Plamtex int d.o.o https://www.plamtex.si/tool-making/ski-molds/ Plamtex is located in Komenda, which is about 25 miles from the Elan factory. Peak will have had to pay for them, but Bode will have had no involvement in their design and manufacture.
Yes I'd expect that would be the case. It does raise all sots of questions about how we got to where we are. What was the prototyping and so on. You'd be pretty lucky to get to the right characteristics first time.

I do wonder if these are 'stock' molds and some sort of secret sauce sprinkled into them. We'll use that mold but this laminate layup, this keyslot or whatever. It's very common to see it with small and startup brands.
 

François Pugh

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What Bode brings to the table for me (I'm not the typical skiing fan boy for any brand or celebrity), is credibility as a skier who knows how to ski and skis fast. If he tells me the ski works well, I will be more likely to trust him than to trust the myriad of reviewers who told me not to worry and that the then (circa 2019-2020) new Bones was still a good ski at high speeds despite it's short turn radius. It wasn't :( , and still isn't, and anyone who says it is clearly hasn't skied it at high speed.
 

skipress

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What Bode brings to the table for me (I'm not the typical skiing fan boy for any brand or celebrity), is credibility as a skier who knows how to ski and skis fast. If he tells me the ski works well, I will be more likely to trust him than to trust the myriad of reviewers who told me not to worry and that the then (circa 2019-2020) new Bones was still a good ski at high speeds despite it's short turn radius. It wasn't :( , and still isn't, and anyone who says it is clearly hasn't skied it at high speed.
To play devil's advocate, as a tester [for several publications] but not of that ski :) you can make a case that I don't give a XXXX which skis ski well, none of them pay me. I've no dog in the fight. If someone buys Peak, Rossignol or a hand built ski from a garage in Pigsknuckle it doesn't put coffee in my cup*. If my name is on the ski... it does.

That's not to suggest that Bode [or anyone else] would knowingly sell junk, but that when someone who works for Rossi, Atomic or anyone else says buy this ski, it's the best ever there ought to be some healthy scepticism :).

I can still 'ski a bit', I train and examine on pretty high level courses but if you are looking for something that works at Bode speeds; skiing at recently retired world cup [or europa cup for that matter] athlete speeds you don't need to read my 'magazine' reviews [or probably anyone else's] , they're not relevant, they're not written through that lens.

*No there are not envelopes with cash in them, I wish. In some cases the reverse, we've bought product for real money to try because it looked interesting and for whatever reason couldn't get a loaner. The only 'interest' to declare might be that I am more likely to have a beer with 'rep A' than 'rep B'.
 

Swiss Toni

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So is this a Bode using Elan resources project ? or, (sounds like - if the above is true) an Elan using Bode marketability thing…
Either way works - If the skis go - why not ?
Elan manufactures around 100,000 pairs of skis for other companies p.a., this is approx. 25% of their output so it’s a substantial part of their business. They won’t want to let any of these skis out of the factory if the don’t meet their internal standards and the relevant ISO standards, for this reason they insist on doing the development. Peak Ski Company, LLC wasn’t registered until July 2021 so there wouldn’t have been much time for Bode to design the skis.
What was the prototyping and so on. You'd be pretty lucky to get to the right characteristics first time.

I do wonder if these are 'stock' molds and some sort of secret sauce sprinkled into them. We'll use that mold but this laminate layup, this keyslot or whatever. It's very common to see it with small and startup brands.
A lot of development work can now be done using simulation programs, so fewer prototypes are required. According to Peak’s press release there were four prototypes for each model.

The 88s use an existing Elan mold, but the lay-up is different, they are using ash / paulownia cores and from the video on their website it looks like they are using phenol sidewalls. The prototypes for the other widths will have likely been made in adjustable molds and pressed in a variable camber press. After Bode decided which ones he wanted to put into production Elan will have ordered the necessary molds.

As the ‘keyhole’ is being used as a USP I’m surprised that there isn’t an indent in the topsheet above the cutout, presumably they put something in the hole to prevent the topsheet from bulging or the hole filling up with adhesive.
 
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As the ‘keyhole’ is being used as a USP I’m surprised that there isn’t an indent in the topsheet above the cutout, presumably they put something in the hole to prevent the topsheet from bulging or the hole filling up with adhesive.
This is what I have said from the start, skiers like technology, technology sells. They should have some indication either in the structure or at lease the graphics where the Keyhole is so people can see it.
 

skipress

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The 88s use an existing Elan mold, but the lay-up is different, they are using ash / paulownia cores and from the video on their website it looks like they are using phenol sidewalls. The prototypes for the other widths will have likely been made in adjustable molds and pressed in a variable camber press. After Bode decided which ones he wanted to put into production Elan will have ordered the necessary molds.

As the ‘keyhole’ is being used as a USP I’m surprised that there isn’t an indent in the topsheet above the cutout, presumably they put something in the hole to prevent the topsheet from bulging or the hole filling up with adhesive.
That was what I'd assumed [at least with the 88s]
This is what I have said from the start, skiers like technology, technology sells. They should have some indication either in the structure or at lease the graphics where the Keyhole is so people can see it.
Yep, visual, visible on the outside technology sells best of all [even if it's questionably effective]. Think Dynastar contact system, Rossi VAS plates, the light on the K2 Four and Head's EMC; very understated though it does seem to work, but in the light of the K2 Four arguably not the 'world's only electronic ski dampening system' if any Fours still light up :) ...and so on.

Ok these are DTC skis but bells and whistles means the salesman can point to it and the skier can do they same when someone says 'so are they any good.... sure are, look at the light or red blob it's magic
 
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James

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This is what I have said from the start, skiers like technology, technology sells.
Not so sure about that.
The K2 Four and on “smart ski” was the butt of endless jokes about its light.

Head KERs? There’s a chip visible but very few care or thinks it’s total bs.
Head “Liquid Metal” ??
Graphene??
Fischer Corporate calling aluminum sheet titanium?
Blizzard “Flip Core”?

You just need a bs name of something with marketing copy to give testers something to write about. A “McShovel Tip” from that spoof years ago is not that far off.
It’s the ski industry.

The problem with all their nonsense marketing is it leaves the door open for garage skis to be somehow purer. As is if making skis were like growing organic vegetables. But people buy that too.
 
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Not so sure about that.
The K2 Four and on “smart ski” was the butt of endless jokes about its light.
You are talking about the exception, not the rule.
 

fatbob

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Salesmen think technology sells. Wonder if anyone has done a regression of sales data for ski brands when they introduced "meaningful" new technology vs when they simply refreshed model names, shapes or materials.#

I'd hypothesize that in general it wouldn't show significant correlation as there is near constant noise about technical improvement but very few breakthru blockbusters. Of course, technology might be a hygiene factor in that you have to have some plausible story about it in order to be in the game.

# If you wanted to get extra cute about it you could also try data about price point, proximity of store to buyer etc etc.
 

François Pugh

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Not so sure about that.
The K2 Four and on “smart ski” was the butt of endless jokes about its light.

Head KERs? There’s a chip visible but very few care or thinks it’s total bs.
Head “Liquid Metal” ??
Graphene??
Fischer Corporate calling aluminum sheet titanium?
Blizzard “Flip Core”?

You just need a bs name of something with marketing copy to give testers something to write about. A “McShovel Tip” from that spoof years ago is not that far off.
It’s the ski industry.

The problem with all their nonsense marketing is it leaves the door open for garage skis to be somehow purer. As is if making skis were like growing organic vegetables. But people buy that too.
We have reached the point where you have to invent some marketing gimmick to combat the marketing. Try to sell your all-mountain ski without a gimmick and you are at a disadvantage.
 

skipress

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Not so sure about that.
The K2 Four and on “smart ski” was the butt of endless jokes about its light.

Head KERs? There’s a chip visible but very few care or thinks it’s total bs.
Head “Liquid Metal” ??
Graphene??
Fischer Corporate calling aluminum sheet titanium?
Blizzard “Flip Core”?

You just need a bs name of something with marketing copy to give testers something to write about. A “McShovel Tip” from that spoof years ago is not that far off.
It’s the ski industry.

The problem with all their nonsense marketing is it leaves the door open for garage skis to be somehow purer. As is if making skis were like growing organic vegetables. But people buy that too.
I've done this for long enough that I am extraordinarily cynical. I'm the guy that shows pics of the Dynafit DX2 to Apex and says 'new, really...?' However, I've tried the Head 'on and off' and there was a difference. Did I peel off VAS plates tho.. nah.
We have reached the point where you have to invent some marketing gimmick to combat the marketing. Try to sell your all-mountain ski without a gimmick and you are at a disadvantage.
We hit that point years ago :). it's not just salesmen, it's ski writers, bells and whistles make life way easier..
 

Brian Finch

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I've done this for long enough that I am extraordinarily cynical.
^ This. I have gone full retail lately- no more bruh hook ups, no more testing, no more prototypes. My time is too valuable to be skiing on unproven gear on an otherwise epic day on the slopes.

*Prove me wrong :)
 
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Philpug

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My time is too valuable to be skiing on unproven gear on an otherwise epic day on the slopes.
And others peoples times are too valuable to be standing there coaching kids, we each have our own priorities ;)
 

njred

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Here is my thought on this. Bode is in terms of skiing at the extreme tail end of human kind.. He is 1 out of a million skiers.. a fucking rare event. That kind of skiing at the extreme tail end is further from you (who are in the let say top 1% of the mountain) than you are from the Jerrys doing pizzas on the greens. What he wants out of a ski may or may not translate at all to you and really that is not even the point. The bottom line is more about whether you find these skis enjoyable and fun than your other $900+ skis or whether they are $X more enjoyable than your skis which costed $X less. The only way to find out.. Free demos. :D
 

François Pugh

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Here is my thought on this. Bode is in terms of skiing at the extreme tail end of human kind.. He is 1 out of a million skiers.. a fucking rare event. That kind of skiing at the extreme tail end is further from you (who are in the let say top 1% of the mountain) than you are from the Jerrys doing pizzas on the greens. What he wants out of a ski may or may not translate at all to you and really that is not even the point. The bottom line is more about whether you find these skis enjoyable and fun than your other $900+ skis or whether they are $X more enjoyable than your skis which costed $X less. The only way to find out.. Free demos. :D
I will wholeheartedly agree with you on the free demos ogsmile
 

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