Utah Park City Mountain Lift Upgrades Blocked

[Bill Miles]

Had an interesting subway experience in Munich once.

It was aboveground between the airport and the city, then turned into a subway, and had a stop right under my hotel. Real easy

 

[ski otter 2]

The bus system in the Denver Metro area sure doesn't, for most. Hardship.

 

[skifishbum]

Sounds like PC and VR deserve each other.

yup

 

[ski otter 2]

In the bigger scheme of things, the whole thing is odd, local with little to do with conservation, etc.

Afterall, these folks are working with a business model of getting as many people as possible to fly in from all over the world, to do as much discretionary spending as possible (build, build).

A good ol' jet fuel foundation.

 

[KingGrump]

I just googled Brooklyn to Manhattan, even with 5 o clock traffic, mass transit only saves 10 minutes of travel time. When traffic isn't there, driving is actually 15 minutes quicker.

Don't believe what google tell ya.

Before my retirement, I would bail from the office at 4:00/5:00 to check on job site in various parts of NYC. Google is nowhere near close when it comes to travelling time.

Anyway, Brooklyn is a strange and foreign country that resisted changes. Most of Brooklyn cannot be accessed via highways. One of the former boro-president wanted it that way. Too parochial for my taste. Sometimes it would take me 45 minutes to get to a highway from the parts of Brooklyn. That's without much traffic. Totally all local street driving.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Brooklyn is a strange and foreign country that resisted changes. Most of Brooklyn cannot be accessed via highways. One of the former boro-president wanted it that way. Too parochial for my taste. Sometimes it would take me 45 minutes to get to a highway from the parts of Brooklyn. That's without much traffic. Totally all local street driving.

That's why I find getting around Brooklyn on a bicycle to be a dream: easy navigation, plenty of bike infrastructure, and you can ride around the automobile traffic snarls.

Count me in as a person who is happy that Robert Moses didn't pave over and bifurcate Brooklyn with a bunch of absurd expressways. And with the new Subway lines being built in the boro by MTA, transit will improve in the next few years.

 

[KingGrump]

That's why I find getting around Brooklyn on a bicycle to be a dream: easy navigation, plenty of bike infrastructure, and you can ride around the automobile traffic snarls.

Count me in as a person who is happy that Robert Moses didn't pave over and bifurcate Brooklyn with a bunch of absurd expressways. And with the new Subway lines being built in the boro by MTA, transit will improve in the next few years.

Subway is definitely the way to go in NYC. Especially the core areas.

What they did with I-95 in the Bronx is a crime. Queens is pretty well laid out in terms of access. But it wasn't developed back the. Brooklyn would have been a disaster.

 

[tromano]

It's a cultural thing. People in Utah want the giant rv with all their gear, grilling in the parking lot with a full mobile camp with tables chairs tents, camp chef and so forth. Riding the bus with skis boots and a peanut butter sandwich is just not the lifestyle they expect.

If resorts actually tried to make things more mass transit friendly, cheap plentiful seasonal lockers and decent on hill food with tons of excess capacity and prices less than $20 a person it might work. But alas...

 

[James]

I just googled Brooklyn to Manhattan, even with 5 o clock traffic, mass transit only saves 10 minutes of travel time. When traffic isn't there, driving is actually 15 minutes quicker. I

Brooklyn is like the 8th largest city in the US, if it was a city by itself. Your stat is pretty meaningless.
You could walk across 3 major bridges to Manhattan in 15 minutes. Doesn’t mean it’s faster to get where you’re going.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Depends on who you ask. Depends on the city. Twin Cities have some awfully time-consuming mass transit. If your home and destination happen to be along the light rail line, it's a wash between driving and light rail. God forbid if you have to transfer between multiple buses because that can more than triple your travel time. I just googled Brooklyn to Manhattan, even with 5 o clock traffic, mass transit only saves 10 minutes of travel time. When traffic isn't there, driving is actually 15 minutes quicker. I'm sure parking is a nightmare at NYC, but it's fairly easy at Minneapolis. We're not a dense city.

Compared to Boston NYC parking is or at least used to be easy. The thing about driving is it could take 10 minutes or 70 minutes. I was heading to Manhattan on 95 and the traffic started to back up at Amsterdam Ave. I should have got off there; it took like 2 hours to travel 1 mile to Henry Hudson. A nightmare.

 

[mdf]

I should have got off there

Years ago (pre-google maps) I used to drive around NYC quite a bit, going from Boston to my mom's in PA. A couple of times I wasn't paying attention and missed the last exit before the freeway turned into "express to George Washington bridge". That was many miles before the bridge, usually jammed full of traffic the whole way. Well, crap.

 

[blue]

Brooklyn is like the 8th largest city in the US, if it was a city by itself. Your stat is pretty meaningless.
You could walk across 3 major bridges to Manhattan in 15 minutes. Doesn’t mean it’s faster to get where you’re going.

Yeah which makes it hard to say if mass transit is effective. It depends on routes of individual commutes. One can live right along the lines or across the bridge from their work, or one could require 3 train changes to get to work. Neglecting benefits of cars in favor of mass transit as the solution to future transportation simply ignore the diverse needs and situations of individuals. It's especially nonsensical when someone tries to push NYC's model of mass transit to cities without the dense population and traffic congestion.

Compared to Boston NYC parking is or at least used to be easy. The thing about driving is it could take 10 minutes or 70 minutes. I was heading to Manhattan on 95 and the traffic started to back up at Amsterdam Ave. I should have got off there; it took like 2 hours to travel 1 mile to Henry Hudson. A nightmare.

Offda that's rough! I was in NYC for a week and I pretty much walked everywhere or took the subway. I hate being stuck in traffic which is why all my cars have auto cruise with stop and go. Good thing traffic in Minnesota isn't bad.

 

[Wasatchman]

@KingGrump

The Pandemic Wasn’t Supposed to Hurt New York Transit This Much https://nyti.ms/3C6Hy2C

 

[KingGrump]

@KingGrump

The Pandemic Wasn’t Supposed to Hurt New York Transit This Much https://nyti.ms/3C6Hy2C

Nothing new with the MTA. It has always been a disaster of one sort or another. It is the usual move to get more money from the state.
New Yorkers will simply adapt and keep moving. No big deal. Part of living in the city.

Haven't taken the subway since the start of the pandemic. Before C19 getting to the theater district was the primary reason we go into Manhattan. We are 15 minute by subway or 1-1/2 hour plus parking ($20-$50). A no brainer.

Everywhere else, car.

 

[Rudi Riet]

Nothing new with the MTA. It has always been a disaster of one sort or another. It is the usual move to get more money from the state.
New Yorkers will simply adapt and keep moving. No big deal. Part of living in the city.

Haven't taken the subway since the start of the pandemic. Before C19 getting to the theater district was the primary reason we go into Manhattan. We are 15 minute by subway or 1-1/2 hour plus parking ($20-$50). A no brainer.

Everywhere else, car.

I've found using a bicycle to be an expedient way to get around Manhattan and Brooklyn. CitiBike is a great system and gets the job done well. Sometimes it's even faster than the MTA. It's a helluva lot more scenic, tho.

And if I lived in a city like NYC I simply wouldn't own a car at all. Yes, this is a skier talking who knows there isn't a great transit solution to get to the slopes. But I don't see any practical point in owning a car living in a city like NYC unless your job depends on it. Bikes would serve me well (and yes, I'm keenly aware of bike theft in NYC and the like - we have the same woes in DC, as well), combined with walking and transit.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Ogg]

I've found using a bicycle to be an expedient way to get around Manhattan and Brooklyn. CitiBike is a great system and gets the job done well. Sometimes it's even faster than the MTA. It's a helluva lot more scenic, tho.

And if I lived in a city like NYC I simply wouldn't own a car at all. Yes, this is a skier talking who knows there isn't a great transit solution to get to the slopes. But I don't see any practical point in owning a car living in a city like NYC unless your job depends on it. Bikes would serve me well (and yes, I'm keenly aware of bike theft in NYC and the like - we have the same woes in DC, as well), combined with walking and transit.

Just my $0.02.

My brother lives in Brooklyn and has 2 young kids so a car is a necessity mainly to transport them out to the grandparents house on LI or elsewhere out of the city. He rides his bike a lot to get around within the city, even for minor grocery shopping etc. Parking in his neighborhood is a huge PITA so if he gets a good spot he's going to leave it there if possible.

 

[Rudi Riet]

My brother lives in Brooklyn and has 2 young kids so a car is a necessity mainly to transport them out to the grandparents house on LI or elsewhere out of the city. He rides his bike a lot to get around within the city, even for minor grocery shopping etc. Parking in his neighborhood is a huge PITA so if he gets a good spot he's going to leave it there if possible.

Understood. And parking still has the alternate-side street sweeping rules, so leaving a car in one place for more than 6 days is... fraught.

E-assist cargo/hauler bikes combined with transit make quick work for getting kids out of urban areas. I know it's not everyone's cuppa but it works all over the world - even here in the U.S., though it's still not visible enough for most people to consider it an option.

But I get that parts of the suburbs and exurbs of NYC aren't fully friendly to modes other than a car. Robert Moses and his disciples certainly saw to that...

 

[KingGrump]

I've found using a bicycle to be an expedient way to get around Manhattan and Brooklyn. CitiBike is a great system and gets the job done well. Sometimes it's even faster than the MTA. It's a helluva lot more scenic, tho.

And if I lived in a city like NYC I simply wouldn't own a car at all. Yes, this is a skier talking who knows there isn't a great transit solution to get to the slopes. But I don't see any practical point in owning a car living in a city like NYC unless your job depends on it. Bikes would serve me well (and yes, I'm keenly aware of bike theft in NYC and the like - we have the same woes in DC, as well), combined with walking and transit.

Just my $0.02.

My brother lives in Brooklyn and has 2 young kids so a car is a necessity mainly to transport them out to the grandparents house on LI or elsewhere out of the city. He rides his bike a lot to get around within the city, even for minor grocery shopping etc. Parking in his neighborhood is a huge PITA so if he gets a good spot he's going to leave it there if possible.

Totally agree with the sentiments regarding cars in NYC. Lived in Queens for 50+ years so I am very familiar with the routine.
Took the subway to school and work (corporate) way back when. Not many alternatives when all the factors were considered. Always lived within three blocks of a subway stop.

When I was in the construction business, my office was 15 blocks from the 59th Street bridge, Triboro and the subway. We had projects in all 5 boros. Car was a no brainer. Often hit several jobs in a loop since I am out of the office.

We are 10 minute off the 59th Street bridge in Astoria. Been here 35+ years. Have a 2 car garage and 2 car double driveway. Would have left NYC decades ago if it wasn't for that. Parking is insane around here.

 

[Ogg]

Totally agree with the sentiments regarding cars in NYC. Lived in Queens for 50+ years so I am very familiar with the routine.
Took the subway to school and work (corporate) way back when. Not many alternatives when all the factors were considered. Always lived within three blocks of a subway stop.

When I was in the construction business, my office was 15 blocks from the 59th Street bridge, Triboro and the subway. We had projects in all 5 boros. Car was a no brainer. Often hit several jobs in a loop since I am out of the office.

We are 10 minute off the 59th Street bridge in Astoria. Been here 35+ years. Have a 2 car garage and 2 car double driveway. Would have left NYC decades ago if it wasn't for that. Parking is insane around here.

I've been working in your neighborhood and having a driveway to pull my truck into most days made it bearable. I still got a couple of tickets for "too close to the fire hydrant" when I parked in front of the driveway. Just part of the cost of business in NYC.

ETA: If I knew you lived there I would have asked you for lunch recommendations.

 

[KingGrump]

If I knew you lived there I would have asked you for lunch recommendations.

Most of the inexpensive Greek restaurants are long gone. Many of the old Greek immigrants had passed. Neighborhood has been trending much younger. Young families with kids been moving in. A good thing.

Neptune on Hoyt and 31st is always decent. The souvlaki/gyro truck on 31st & 31st is always good. Big portions, been there for 30+ years.