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Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

Ogg

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For what its worth…

I just looked at the website and it tells us the CrossClimate SUV IS rated 3PMSF.

Imma go with the website…that, and the CCSUVs I had were 3PMSF labeled.
It may depend on the size. I know I ran into that with hankook.
 

cantunamunch

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It may depend on the size. I know I ran into that with hankook.

Interesting. In a 'wonder why they changed rubber composition between size runs' way.
(and yes, I know that different sizes of the same tire have different lug patterns).

Also ridiculous. In a 'way to serve the customer' way.
 
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François Pugh

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It may also just depend if they bothered to get the tire tested and certified. A tire that would pass, but wasn't subjected to the official testing does not get the symbol. Later they take the same tire and test it. Like magic it is now a three-peak tire. That bar isn't very high after all.
 
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murphysf

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For what its worth...

I just spoke to a person at Michelin and was told that the CrossClimate and CrossClimate SUV are NOT 3PMSF rated tires however the CrossClimate 2 IS 3PMSF rated.
so the issue is a bit complicated. in my size 255/55/18 they do not make a CC or a CC2. They make a CCSUV however it does not show up in the Michelin system because it is a tire that is only sold to discount dealers like tire rack, discount tire direct, sams club, walmart, etc... the CCSUV is a 3PMSF tire
 

Dave Marshak

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Interesting. In a 'wonder why they changed rubber composition between size runs' way.
(and yes, I know that different sizes of the same tire have different lug patterns).

Also ridiculous. In a 'way to serve the customer' way.
Different sizes have different load ratings and heat dissipation requirements. Maybe you need different compounds to meet those requirements while still maintaining equivalent performance.
OTOH tire names are nothing but marketing, and the only requirement is to create the pereption of value. Tires are no different from skis in that way.

dm
 

cantunamunch

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They make a CCSUV however it does not show up in the Michelin system because it is a tire that is only sold to discount dealers like tire rack, discount tire direct, sams club, walmart, etc... the CCSUV is a 3PMSF tire

So...are you going to get them? And are you getting 4 or 4 and a spare?
 

snwbrdr

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It may also have not met some arbitrary tread/void ratio or had enough sipes. I don’t know how much testing there actually is.
Tread to void ratio is for the "M+S" rating. No testing is involved

3PMSF requires testing, to the Rubber Manufacturer's Association standard (it's not a difficult test either)
 

snwbrdr

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For what its worth...

I just spoke to a person at Michelin and was told that the CrossClimate and CrossClimate SUV are NOT 3PMSF rated tires however the CrossClimate 2 IS 3PMSF rated.
Apparently that person at Michelin should be fired for spreading misinformation. They need to go look at the tires Michelin sells. Maybe that person doesn't know what the 3PMSF logo looks like

Even the Michelin website says the CC+ and CC SUV are 3PMSF.
 

James

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What are people’s experiences with rain?
Seems like performance in rain is not compatible with snow performance.

The Vredestein Quatrac Pro was rated very well in rain. (Tire Rack test) I must say during last weeks tropical storm i was somewhat disappointed. Not actual standing water, but flowing water downhill. So maybe it’s quarter inch or less. Anything over 55mph was met with much resistance and the beginning of deflection. I would’ve thought it could handle a bit more.
 

scott43

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That could be steering geometry being exposed. Like I say, rain is the great revealer.. If you have crap tires you'll notice on wet surfaces.. and you'll feel what your car steers like at the limit.
 

snwbrdr

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I don't recall issues driving in the rain with Nokian WR G4 SUV at highway speeds... since starting in LA area, you can be driving in the rain and within an hour you'll be in the mountains driving in the snow.

But... since the Nokian WR G4 are derived from Central European winter tires (WR A4), they have to cope with milder winter conditions which see more than cold rain than snow, compared to say Nordic winter tires which don't cope in the rain as well, for that trade-off for superior snow and ice grip.

When there is a EU tyre label, it's a good indicator for braking in wet conditions, but not an indicator for hydroplaning resistance. Other tests from other sources that test hydroplaning resistance come into play here, such as Consumer Reports testing.

Nokian WR A4 205/55r16 91H
T429787.png


Vs

Nokian Hakka R3 205/55r16 94R
T430601.png
 

James

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I don't recall issues driving in the rain with Nokian WR G4 SUV at highway speeds..
I had the WRG3.
With roughly 45k miles on them, their ability in water covered roads was definitely reduced so you had to reduce speed. Those things did last. I did think the wheel bearings were going until I got snows and the noise went away.
 

Chip

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Since I'm heading out to Utah/Colorado for about 4 weeks in Feb-Mar2022 I'm looking to purchase some new 3PMSF rated tires to start off with. I'm picking up some 'new' wheels today so these will not be my DD tires afterwards. I'll be taking my 2016 4Runner 4WD and I'll probably pick up a set of chains to throw in the back just in case.
From reading through the 10 pages, it seems like someone asked a question of 'which ski should I buy to compliment my all mountain skis?' as just about every tire brand has been mentioned. That being said I don't remember seeing anything about these- Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S. From the reviews I've read these get high marks across the board and the price doesn't break the bank.
However- I'm still open to suggestions and can be easily persuaded :D . Living in NC I don't drive that much in snow anymore, but growing up in NJ and skiing the NE for many years, I do have plenty of snow driving experience...
 

Ogg

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Since I'm heading out to Utah/Colorado for about 4 weeks in Feb-Mar2022 I'm looking to purchase some new 3PMSF rated tires to start off with. I'm picking up some 'new' wheels today so these will not be my DD tires afterwards. I'll be taking my 2016 4Runner 4WD and I'll probably pick up a set of chains to throw in the back just in case.
From reading through the 10 pages, it seems like someone asked a question of 'which ski should I buy to compliment my all mountain skis?' as just about every tire brand has been mentioned. That being said I don't remember seeing anything about these- Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S. From the reviews I've read these get high marks across the board and the price doesn't break the bank.
However- I'm still open to suggestions and can be easily persuaded :D . Living in NC I don't drive that much in snow anymore, but growing up in NJ and skiing the NE for many years, I do have plenty of snow driving experience...
I think there's some info on those tires in the Hybrids - The New Winter Tire thread. They're supposed to be good iirc. I've been running Falken Wildpeak AT3Ws year round on my Silverado for a couple of years and have been quite impressed with them in all sorts of conditions but there are newer designs that are supposed to be even better in the winter. @nay goes into it pretty extensively in that thread.
 
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James

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From reading through the 10 pages, it seems like someone asked a question of 'which ski should I buy to compliment my all mountain skis?' as just about every tire brand has been mentioned. That being said I don't remember seeing anything about these- Cooper Discoverer AT3 4S.
Well there’s every type of size too, from small cars to pickups. Not every tire is appropriate for every vehicle.

Pretty sure @jmeb is running the Coopers.
 

jmeb

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Well there’s every type of size too, from small cars to pickups. Not every tire is appropriate for every vehicle.

Pretty sure @jmeb is running the Coopers.

I am. They are OK. But I'm going back to Falken Wildpeak AT3W when they wear out as they are superior in most winter conditions IME.
 

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