Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

[Ogg]

Anyone have Atturo tires?

They make one called the Trail Blade A/T

Not sure about the AT but I know the Trail Blade MT is a fairly popular tire for lifted trucks because they have a cool looking tread pattern and are relatively cheap. I haven't heard anything great or terrible about their performance but lots of noise complaints. Just looking at the pictures of the AT it looks like pretty much the same tread pattern as the Westlake tires I see on many of the work trucks and beater vans around here.

 

[murphysf]

Goodyear has their rebates again.. If anyone is looking for an all season with severe snow service this is one of the best tires on the market.

Its $100 off a set of 4 and then another $100 if you use the Goodyear Credit Card..

It you are looking for tires for next winter now the time. Buy them now and get them mounted in a few months!

 

[murphysf]

Have been reading up on the General ALTIMAX RT43.

Seems like it have excellent snow performance.

Anyone know why it doesn't have the 3PMSF rating?

 

[Philpug]

Goodyear has their rebates again.. If anyone is looking for an all season with severe snow service this is one of the best tires on the market.

Its $100 off a set of 4 and then another $100 if you use the Goodyear Credit Card..

It you are looking for tires for next winter now the time. Buy them now and get them mounted in a few months!

View attachment 107272

I am running these as three season tires on the Alltrack and they are pretty good.

 

[pete]

I am running these as three season tires on the Alltrack and they are pretty good.

I'd agree as I picked them up for my spouses Escape. Handles well and quiet, but old tires were Pirelli P7's do get noisy as they wear.

They do well in the snow, much better than others I've experienced. We have 2 other vehicles with snows so they're filling in for moderate weather but I'm impressed with how well they work when taking em out for a try in 4-6 inches of fresh.

 

[Philpug]

I'd agree as I picked them up for my spouses Escape. Handles well and quiet, but old tires were Pirelli P7's do get noisy as they wear.

They do well in the snow, much better than others I've experienced. We have 2 other vehicles with snows so they're filling in for moderate weather but I'm impressed with how well they work when taking em out for a try in 4-6 inches of fresh.

While I didn't try them last season, I might leave them on for the first storm to see how they do.

 

[Tony]

I installed the BFG Advantage TA Sport LT that I purchased from Costco on Memorial Day after getting one more trip to Tahoe out of mostly worn Michelin Premiere LTX in mid-June. I hope snow performance makes up for the mileage hit I see with the new tires. It seems like mileage has dropped at least 5% when inflated to 35-36 psi and more than 10% when inflated to 32 as on door sticker. This is compared to mileage I had at 35-36 psi which is where I tried to have Michelins to get better mileage and tire wear. (Tire and auto repair shops always try to return them to 32.)

While I realize one or two tanks is not always a great indicator of gas mileage, the BFGs rolling resistance is noticeably higher than Michelins which were highest rated (for low rolling resistance) while I think the BFGs were below average, but not the lowest rating. On the Michelins, my Honda Pilot always seemed to roll and roll when coasting and I often had to drop into 3rd or 4th gear to keep my speed down or avoid running up on vehicles ahead of me on any downhill without continually braking. An example of this is the downhill between Pollock Pines and Fresh Pond when going East on US-50. With Michelins, I'd drop into 4th at the beginning of the downhill and sometimes have to brake to stay at or under 65 mph. With the BFGs, I was able to leave it in 5th and never had to brake and stayed just below 65. Road grip is a lot better, but with an almost 17 year-old SUV that mostly just means it leans more.

I wasn't really unhappy with the Michelins LTXs I'd been running since I replaced the OEM tires and they never really let me down in snow, but their mileage (treadwear) guarantee seemed to drop over time/between versions and I thought it was worth saving some money since I don't expect to get more than another winter or two out of my SUV and doubt that I will be driving it to Canada again. But it's hard to go from usually getting 20 mpg or a little more on trips to Tahoe and back to getting under that. It's also possible something else is going on with 260K+ miles on SUV and also that I'm comparing nearly worn lower rolling resistance tires vs. full-tread with higher rolling resistance. And it's also possible that difference in size between worn Michelins that TireRack says are 28.8" diameter with 8.5/32" of tread when new and BFGs that TireRack says are 29" diameter (with 11.5/32" of tread) accounts for some of the drop in measured mileage, but I did the math on that and it would be less than 2% and that ignores how it feels when coasting. Another difference I just noticed is that Michelins weigh 28 lbs and BFGs are 34 which is something I probably should have looked at closer before going with the BFGs to save a few bucks (and gain snow performance), but more weight seems like it should increase coasting not reduce it.

 

[raytseng]

@Tony try giving it a 1000 miles and re test. There's definitely a breakin period where the peaks and nubs will wear in to round for your alignment, Especially with a softer tread rubber, this break-in drag is much more noticeable than harder tread.

 

[Tony]

Now have close to 2,000 miles on the BFGs. Will not be able to do another valid mileage comparison until probably October as I re-installed bikerack that attaches to roof rack a couple of weeks ago so we could bring 2 bikes, two large and two small ice chests and other stuff for a week in Pacific Grove plus two dogs and their beds, dishes and food that we dropped at our son's house in Salinas. We were loaded as usual (or a little more than usual as we try to avoid stores) for trips to Tahoe, but only brought one bike inside on 2nd trip and no bikerack.

 

[raytseng]

If it helps, I greatly noticed the exact same thing with my Vredestein for the first 1000 miles and thought I made a huge mistake. On a particular freeway exit, my car had so much drag I barely needed to brake when I got to the stopsign so I noticed the drag for sure same as you. I've never had this with other new tire changes in the same category of all-season grand touring tires. But after the wear in, that blatant tire drag went away or at least reduced so it's no longer obvious(especially when tires are at higher PSI +3 also due to their softness).

 

[snwbrdr]

I have used Nokian WR G3 (Assymmetric) on my old FWD wagon and currently on WR G4 SUV.

So, where I used to live in the Ice Coast, up a steep hill, that my FWD wagon with Nokian Hakkapeliita RSI couldn't make it up the hill (gravity eventually overcomes FWD traction), then General Altimax Arctic, no dice either (and hated the squishy tread feel when the road isn't covered in snow).... needed chains to get up, and if I had to go down, the chains provided the control to go down on packed snow. The hill was so steep, that even the snow plows frequently crashed. So, tried "performance winters" with Hankook Icebear W300 and Nexen Winguard Sport... which eventually got replaced by the WR G3.

Nokian WR G3 with Thule K-summit chains
8D1626A5-8E61-4415-8BB8-BB389B649982_zpswimatpxd by thisistan, on Flickr

Now with AWD and starting in a warmer climate to start driving... WR G4 SUV is perfect for me. Safe in flat SoCal areas, safe in the mountains.

Nokian wr G4 SUV by thisistan, on Flickr

The first season with them...handles fine enough in SoCal, even the rare occasions when it rains... and the weekend before COVID shut down the mountains, it was icy around Mammoth, near the hotel, handled the icy road (that includes a curve) just fine. the day of shut down, it snowed, and handled the 6" of fresh powder just fine, too bad the mountains where closed that I couldn't ride the fresh powder. Some of the SUV's with all-seasons had a little trouble getting going from a stop sign with an incline... no issues with the WR G4 SUV's.

Note.. I use the WR's as my winter tires, as I use all-seasons as 3-season tires, which currently use Nokian Entyre C/S, previously Nokian Z-line A/s (which replaced the stock Continental ContiProContact).

The WR's passenger car tires start life as a Central European winter tire, which the WR G3 was a mix of WR D3 (directional) and WR A3 (assymmetric) and the WR G4 start out as the WR A4 (and this time, carried into the SUV sizes).

 

[murphysf]

Whenever I read this thread I always am thinking from an AWD perspective.

Are 3PMSF tires just as beneficial or maybe even more beneficial for a FWD vehicle?

I understand that FWD will still need chains at times. However what about the times where there is snow and ice and there is no chain control?

 

[raytseng]

Whenever I read this thread I always am thinking from an AWD perspective.

Are 3PMSF tires just as beneficial or maybe even more beneficial for a FWD vehicle?

I understand that FWD will still need chains at times. However what about the times where there is snow and ice and there is no chain control?

Yea man, where the rubber meets the road is where the rubber on the road.
Better tires are still extremely important to help FWD vehicles in snow/ice.

Everything is a relative scale of vehicle control; it's not binary thinking just to get around caltrans's chain controls or relying on caltrans to tell you when it is safe/not safe; you reach a level where you are doing these things for yourself, and making this about safely driving and not wrecking; versus just about getting pass checks.
If you have FWD, good tires won't get you past chain control, but it will greatly help in general or in the marginal conditions in town or if it just starts snowing and it's up to you to decide whether to throw chains.

Once , I was in town already in SLT, and got through before the storms or controls; , and it was just starting to snow, in a honda FWD with 3yo halfworn OEM allseason tires;
I was only 3blocks from Lakeside inn and being in for the night, but couldn't stop as I desired and drifted through a redlight into the intersection. So it is definitely not good to feel yourself sliding around with no grip. Later that season, now with the old tires ditched, and with new continental DWS tires; in similar conditions, no such issues and much more in control.

On that same note, chains aren't all equal too, so getting good chains are going to have different performance and more than just to get pass caltrans too.
Especially, if you are travelling to kirkwood it's a little more cowboy, it's partially left to you to make the right decisions versus doing things just because caltrans is nannying you.

 

[snwbrdr]

Whenever I read this thread I always am thinking from an AWD perspective.

Are 3PMSF tires just as beneficial or maybe even more beneficial for a FWD vehicle?

I understand that FWD will still need chains at times. However what about the times where there is snow and ice and there is no chain control?

as long as you don't encounter a steep hill to climb, you'll be fine. It worked for me in VT around Killington

 

[snwbrdr]

From tirerack's testing... though comparing the General Altimax on a 3-series with 215/60r16 tires to a 4-series with 225/r0r17... the wider tire should be at a deficit due to thinner is better convention, with Firestone WeatherGrip and Goodyear Assurance Weather Ready

	General Altimax	Firestone WeatherGrip	GY WeatherReady
0-12 mph (feet)	31.8	29.3	29.8
0-12 mph (seconds)	5.27	4.89	5.05
25-0 mph (snow, feet)	52.8	53.1	54.6
12-0 mph (ice, feet)	54	42.4	46.7

 

[James]

I’ve got about 40k mikes on the Nokian WR G3 all weather. Definitely a good tire. They are loud. I actually started to wonder last year if the wheel bearings were going with the helicopter sound. It’s not bad unless you’re really sensitive to noise.
I would get them again though. Wondering if the WR G4 is quieter than the G3.

Last December I got a set of Continental Viking Contact 7 Winter tires. Figured I go full winter and extend the life of the Nokians for non winter. The Vikings are freakishly quiet. I think they have better riad feel on snow than asphalt. It’s not well suited to warm temp non winter road driving though. I wouldn’t want to be on a tight parkway in the summer doing 70 passing with no shoulder but a Jersey barrier, and a car on the other side. I do have confidence in the lateral stability of the G3’s in that situation.

These days I’d also look at the Michelin Cross Climate +. Looking at the reviews and tests it did very well. It would probably be between that and the Nokian G4 if I was buying this season.

But in general, yeah all weather is the way to go unless you’re really want maximum performance in both winter and summer. That’s still two different tires. If you live in snow country I’d go full snows, even studded depending on conditions.

 

[fatbob]

Just put a set of Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons on my euro wagon having found many reviews where they beat the Michelin Cross Climates with an edge in the wet which is very important to me year round. Who knows if I'll get to drive them to the Alps this year but tread looks very impressive in the rubber.

 

[François Pugh]

Just put a set of Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons on my euro wagon having found many reviews where they beat the Michelin Cross Climates with an edge in the wet which is very important to me year round. Who knows if I'll get to drive them to the Alps this year but tread looks very impressive in the rubber.

Goodyear beating Michelin in the wet? Unless those reviews don't have a subjective portion or lap times, the world is surely coming to an end!

 

[Ogg]

Goodyear beating Michelin in the wet? Unless those reviews don't have a subjective portion or lap times, the world is surely coming to an end!

I know you’re a Michelin fan but I have never been particularly impressed with theIt wet performance. One of the worst rain tires I’ve ever experienced was the XW4s(?) that came on my wife’s first Outback. They were scary in the rain. We changed them out for a set of +1 wheels and Pirelli p6000s for summer and put a set of Michelin arctic alpins on the stock wheels for the winter. Both tires had much better wet performance than the xw4s.

 

[fatbob]

Try this review for starters Michelin good subjectively in wet but Goodyear Vector better on the timed and measured plus all round honours

2020 Tyre Reviews All Season Tyre Test - Tyre reviews and ratings

With the promise of one tyre to work in all conditions, all season tyres are a rapidly growing market segment. To find out which of these all season tyres is best, and whether they can match a ...

www.tyrereviews.co.uk