• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

tball

Unzipped
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,362
Location
Denver, CO
Do you think the CC2 is worth the extra $100-ish? is the difference in snow performance going top be nominal? or really worth it?
im on the fence between cross climate 2 and firestone weathergrip for my Honda Pilot.
Easy choice, Crossclimates for sure!

Consumer Reports has the Crossclimate +, and the Crossclimate SUV rated as the highest in their respective categories. Their test results are better across the board than any I've seen. Here's their take on the Crossclimate +:

CR's Take
This is an outstanding, well-balanced tire, which is marketed as an all-weather product, is a rarity of having very good performance in all categories, along with long tread life predicted at 75,000 miles based on CR's test.​
They haven't rated the Crossclimate 2 yet, which I assume is the next generation and will be even better.

The Crossclimate + scored 74, the next best Continental PureContact LS scored 71, and the Firestone WeatherGrip scored 61. Spend the extra $$ for the Michelins!
 

sky_chicken

Putting on skis
Skier
Joined
Dec 8, 2017
Posts
70
Location
MI
Easy choice, Crossclimates for sure!

Consumer Reports has the Crossclimate +, and the Crossclimate SUV rated as the highest in their respective categories. Their test results are better across the board than any I've seen. Here's their take on the Crossclimate +:

CR's Take
This is an outstanding, well-balanced tire, which is marketed as an all-weather product, is a rarity of having very good performance in all categories, along with long tread life predicted at 75,000 miles based on CR's test.​
They haven't rated the Crossclimate 2 yet, which I assume is the next generation and will be even better.

The Crossclimate + scored 74, the next best Continental PureContact LS scored 71, and the Firestone WeatherGrip scored 61. Spend the extra $$ for the Michelins!
I'm considering trying to sell my one season used Michelin X-Ice3's on spare wheels for CrossClimate 2s all year round, mainly based on the stellar reviews. Who am I kidding, I don't NEED the Pilot Sport 4s as a summer tire, right?! RIGHT?!?! This is coming up because the all season's that came with the car are nearing replace time. Double down on the two set of tire system or just one...?
 

snwbrdr

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Posts
932
Location
CA
If you enjoy high performance driving don't use all weather tires.

For Angeles Crest highway driving in the winter, I rather be on all-weather tires than "high performance summer tires" with my German Crossover.... and you still have morons on summer tires attempting the Angeles Crest Highway until they reach the parts where it gets cold and their high performance tires turn into hockey pucks.
 

Tom K.

Skier Ordinaire
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Posts
8,402
Since the OP's decision appears to be made, I'll drift a bit:

Over the years, I've subscribed to both @scott43 and @snwbdr approaches. Currently settled on UHP All Seasons -- Dunlop something or other -- and find them to be a great compromise, since I don't need snows for this car. Basically a high performance summer tire casing with all season tread compound and pattern.

I'll need new tires next year, and now live in a more wintry place, so I'm wondering whether I'll be able to find something like the CC+ in a UHP or similar variant, and expand the cold season drivability of this car. Note that it will never be the primary snowmobile.

Thanks in advance, tire experts!
 
Thread Starter
TS
raytseng

raytseng

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Posts
3,330
Location
SF Bay Area
The cc tread design i don't think will ever be like ultra high performance design, since it has no parallel sipes I think it may be the contributor to the wandery feel as the TR test result indicated, but what do I know, I haven't personally tried it!
That being said, it still comes as V rated so that should count for something.

I would say that is probably the easiest way to reduce the search and use the high speed rated tire (V or W or Y or Z) as a filter, not because you intend to really drive that fast, but solely to see if they are positioning that tire to be High Performance focused. Such as the Vredstein Quadrac Pro which is intended/postioned for luxury/high performance category and is Y rated. The lower treadwear warranty as I mentioned above is also a clue that it maybe higher performance oriented rather than budget oriented.
 
Last edited:

Tony

tseeb
Skier
Joined
Jan 17, 2016
Posts
1,284
Location
Northern CA
I started my post by quoting @neohio and @raytseng but posted when I meant to edit so I'm starting over without the quotes.

Did anyone see which tire rated the highest following link @neohio had in post #73? https://www.car-engineer.com/techni...eason-tires-for-winter-snow-to-buy-right-now/ rated BF Goodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT that I installed this summer on my Honda Pilot as the Best All-Season Winter tire for SUVs and light trucks. They said they will stop in snow for 25 mph using ABS almost 12 feet shorter than Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season and 14.5' shorter than Vredestein Quatrac 5.

I would have gone with current version of Michelin LTXs that I had been running my last few sets if they were only $30 more than the $500 installed including tax I paid Costco for the BFGs (made by Michelin according to article @neohio linked). While @raytseng dissed the Honda Pilot, they use space very efficiently, had a load capacity of over 1500 lbs in 2003 and the Honda V-6 quickly winds towards 6K+ redline when you get on the V-Tech, even going over Carson Pass. I've been running LT tires on mine which was in snow the day after I bought it in 2002 and gets onto dirt roads often.
 
Last edited:

snwbrdr

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Posts
932
Location
CA
I started my post by quoting @neohio and @raytseng but posted when I meant to edit so I'm starting over without the quotes.

Did anyone see which tire rated the highest following link @neohio had in post #73? https://www.car-engineer.com/techni...eason-tires-for-winter-snow-to-buy-right-now/ rated BF Goodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT that I installed this summer on my Honda Pilot as the Best All-Season Winter tire for SUVs and light trucks. They said they will stop in snow for 25 mph using ABS almost 12 feet shorter than Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season and 14.5' shorter than Vredestein Quatrac 5.

I would have gone with current version of Michelin LTXs that I had been running my last few sets if they were only $30 more than the $500 installed including tax I paid Costco for the BFGs (made by Michelin according to article @neohio linked). While @raytseng dissed the Honda Pilot, they use space very efficiently, had a load capacity of over 1500 lbs in 2003 and the Honda V-6 quickly winds towards 6K+ redline when you get on the V-Tech, even going over Carson Pass. I've been running LT tires on mine which was in snow the day after I bought it in 2002 and gets onto dirt roads often.
There's more than just braking and acceleration in a straight line. Often enough we need to turn the steering wheel to follow where the road takes us, so lateral grip is just as important. Then in that test, the Quattrac 5 starts to perform better.
 
Thread Starter
TS
raytseng

raytseng

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Posts
3,330
Location
SF Bay Area
I started my post by quoting @neohio and @raytseng but posted when I meant to edit so I'm starting over without the quotes.

Did anyone see which tire rated the highest following link @neohio had in post #73? https://www.car-engineer.com/techni...eason-tires-for-winter-snow-to-buy-right-now/ rated BF Goodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT that I installed this summer on my Honda Pilot as the Best All-Season Winter tire for SUVs and light trucks. They said they will stop in snow for 25 mph using ABS almost 12 feet shorter than Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season and 14.5' shorter than Vredestein Quatrac 5.

I would have gone with current version of Michelin LTXs that I had been running my last few sets if they were only $30 more than the $500 installed including tax I paid Costco for the BFGs (made by Michelin according to article @neohio linked). While @raytseng dissed the Honda Pilot, they use space very efficiently, had a load capacity of over 1500 lbs in 2003 and the Honda V-6 quickly winds towards 6K+ redline when you get on the V-Tech, even going over Carson Pass. I've been running LT tires on mine which was in snow the day after I bought it in 2002 and gets onto dirt roads often.
I'm with you. I have nothing against the pilot or suvs, the diss was more about you dont buy a honda pilot if your values are purely technial performance driving, nor if we were to switch to a metric of pure enginering or safety ability either, since on the same platform the acura mdx exists with a much superior sh-awd system. So the offhanded comment was more pointing out the meaningless in optimizing tire purchase to the last micropoint of technical focus since the car platform did not undergo the same scrutiny of technical ability.
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
raytseng

raytseng

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Posts
3,330
Location
SF Bay Area
tony to your point though on the article, those guys are just cherypicking and resummarizing data from tirerack results and other articles to get some ad money, so just go to tirerack since thsts their source data anyway.

I will tell you first hand that ive have both the quatrac pros and the scorpions, and the test results interpretation is a bit bogus in that they are only applicable for the test at hand of fresh new tires and maybe first 5k miles. After the first 2/32s the scorpions are not good at all in snow, the quatracs are far superior and safer.

I mentioned in the first first OP that you have to take those tirerack new tire reviews with a grain of salt and look into the long term user reviews to see how people really feel after 15k, 30k miles or longer. The user ratings are useful to reveal how they really perform over the life, and I think it holds out in the ratings that people end up downrating the scorpions esp for snow performance after they've had them for awhile and a hugely lower would you buy again score, revealing a difference that isn't in the tr new tire test.
That being said your bfg tires have good user ratings too even over time so well done.
 
Last edited:

François Pugh

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Posts
7,617
Location
Great White North (Eastern side currently)
Due to life's circumstances, sometimes you're stuck with the car you have. That doesn't mean that you can't buy the more high-performance (or better snow performance) tires. Just remember to take vehicle characteristics into account when you choose your tire; some tires that work better with a light car while others work better with a heavy car, and do remember to make your choice based on the conditions (wet vs dry, snow vs ice, etc.) that matter most to you, not some weighted score based on someone else's weighting.
 

tball

Unzipped
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
4,362
Location
Denver, CO
If you enjoy high performance driving don't use all weather tires.
Yep. And, if you drive in the snow frequently, don't use all-weather tires.

That said, those CrossClimates test results look fantastic for someone who doesn't want to switch tires or cars.

Switching cars is the best solution—high-performance tires on the performance car and studded Hakka's on the ski vehicle.
 

snwbrdr

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Posts
932
Location
CA
Yep. And, if you drive in the snow frequently, don't use all-weather tires.

That said, those CrossClimates test results look fantastic for someone who doesn't want to switch tires or cars.

Switching cars is the best solution—high-performance tires on the performance car and studded Hakka's on the ski vehicle.
CR said on the Nokian WR G3 and Toyo Celsius, that they perform better than certain dedicated snow tires in the snow and ice

Which ones? The mid-tier studdable tires that are unstudded.
 

neohio

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Posts
7
Location
ohio
I'm with you. I have nothing against the pilot or suvs, the diss was more about you dont buy a honda pilot if your values are purely technial performance driving, nor if we were to switch to a metric of pure enginering or safety ability either, since on the same platform the acura mdx exists with a much superior sh-awd system. So the offhanded comment was more pointing out the meaningless in optimizing tire purchase to the last micropoint of technical focus since the car platform did not undergo the same scrutiny of technical ability.
In all fairness, I have an AWD vehicle, but I haven't felt like it in the snow. I was looking for the best all-weather tire for driving in the snow in NE Ohio weather. I dont want to deal with separate snow tires or separate vehicles. I don't see what's wrong with optimizing on the tire just because I don't have an optimal vehicle. I want to feel like I am in control in the winter. The question I raised: all things being equal (i.e., the Honda Pilot), am I going to see a difference between CC2 and Firestone Weathergrip? Why is the MDX relevant at all? Are you just saying that we cant look at reviews because they make judgments based on an MDX rather than a Pilot? I know it wont perform like an MDX but I wasn't expecting that. These CC2s have a lot of hype around them. I guess only time will tell if they live up to the hype. For the price, I was willing to try it out. I think you skewed this in a different direction that was beyond my comments. Maybe the answer is that there is only so much you can do when you dont have a dedicated snow tire and I need to give up hope.....I guess we will see how these CC2s do this winter. Ill report back.
 
Last edited:

neohio

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Posts
7
Location
ohio
I started my post by quoting @neohio and @raytseng but posted when I meant to edit so I'm starting over without the quotes.

Did anyone see which tire rated the highest following link @neohio had in post #73? https://www.car-engineer.com/techni...eason-tires-for-winter-snow-to-buy-right-now/ rated BF Goodrich Advantage T/A Sport LT that I installed this summer on my Honda Pilot as the Best All-Season Winter tire for SUVs and light trucks. They said they will stop in snow for 25 mph using ABS almost 12 feet shorter than Pirelli Scorpion Verde All Season and 14.5' shorter than Vredestein Quatrac 5.

I would have gone with current version of Michelin LTXs that I had been running my last few sets if they were only $30 more than the $500 installed including tax I paid Costco for the BFGs (made by Michelin according to article @neohio linked). While @raytseng dissed the Honda Pilot, they use space very efficiently, had a load capacity of over 1500 lbs in 2003 and the Honda V-6 quickly winds towards 6K+ redline when you get on the V-Tech, even going over Carson Pass. I've been running LT tires on mine which was in snow the day after I bought it in 2002 and gets onto dirt roads often.
2017 test results tho for the BF Goodrush Advantage. Seems outdated or maybe im wrong.
 

neohio

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
Skier
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Posts
7
Location
ohio
CR said on the Nokian WR G3 and Toyo Celsius, that they perform better than certain dedicated snow tires in the snow and ice

Which ones? The mid-tier studdable tires that are unstudded.
Would love to know more. Really curious to see how the CC2s shake out against the Nokian after this winter season.
 

oldschoolskier

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2015
Posts
4,229
Location
Ontario Canada
I currently drive these type of tires on my F150, 2nd set. A little sacrifice in tire life and tire noise. Benefits....decent traction year round, good wet weather traction, good dry traction, good winter traction and an insurance break to sum it up.

To be fair would I prefer a winter tire yes, but we are not allowed studs in Southern Ontario so why waste the money, if needed a set of tire chains are allowed and are always in the truck and provide way better traction than winters (studded tires coming close). BTW my F150 is only RWD and I don’t get stuck vs AWD with dedicated winters (its about knowing how to drive).

Cost difference between two sets all weather vs a dedicated summer/winter set. $1300 for 8 all weathers, $2600 for 4 summers and 4 winters (not including a second set of rims), given that overall mileage will be similar.

$1300 savings is good for at least a few lift tickets with little compromise.
 

Tom K.

Skier Ordinaire
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Posts
8,402
After the first 2/32s the scorpions are not good at all in snow,

+1. Terrible in snow once they wear at all. Just terrible.

Yep. And, if you drive in the snow frequently, don't use all-weather tires.

That said, those CrossClimates test results look fantastic for someone who doesn't want to switch tires or cars.

Switching cars is the best solution—high-performance tires on the performance car and studded Hakka's on the ski vehicle.

Too much of our dry driving opportunities are in temperatures below what makes sense for a true "summer" tire. :(
 

James

Out There
Instructor
Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,453
Ordered sone Vredestein Quatrac Pros for a family member’s vehicle. They got a great rating, but for snow, even though they have the symbol, other non snow peak labeled tires actually did better. Price is pretty good.
I tried to get the Nokian WRG4’s, but they don’t make them in 235/45/19. Michelin Cross Climate+ don’t come in that size either.
The Verdestein’s got a very good wet road rating which is a lot of winter around here anyway


 

Sponsor

Staff online

  • Andy Mink
    Everyone loves spring skiing but not in January
Top