Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

[sky_chicken]

Yep. And, if you drive in the snow frequently, don't use all-weather tires.

On my AWD car, I didn't feel like the Michelin X-Ice3s were life changing in winter after the Primacy MXM4 all-seasons that came with the vehicle. A bit better on snow and ice, for sure, but living in SE Michigan meant like 3 snows last year and so for 95% of the time I was faced with noticeably worse dry braking and cornering.

My wife gets carsick with any kind of spirited driving, so that leaves the fun driving just to the 10% of the time I'm driving the car by myself. Seems a shame to have a fast car without UHP tires, but for money's sake I wish I had just put on the CC+ and called it a day.

 

[Jwrags]

Getting Michelin CrossClimates installed as I write this. I will report back after I get a few miles on them.

 

[James]

along with long tread life predicted at 75,000 miles based on CR's test.

I find that dubious. Wondering what type of standing water performance you’re going to get. And winter.

On the Nokian WRG3’s that I’ve put 40k on, their hydroplaning resistance is now down. You have to lower your speed. On another car, the stock Pirelli Contact Pros at 35k are now definitely reached a 65mph water limit. Those just got replaced by the Vredestein Quatrac Pro. Mainly because of winter.

The tires the Nokians replaced, around 55k?, I remember driving in a heavy rainstorm on the Taconic Pkwy. I could actually feel at something like 54mph the front end start to go on turns and the car would feel like it was starting to hydroplane on the straights. It really was a pretty tight range of around 2mph that bad things would start happening. A friend was following and I asked them if they were having issues, and no. Newish car.

Getting Michelin CrossClimates installed as I write this. I will report back after I get a few miles on them.

Wait for at least 500mi.
Depending on the size you may have got them just in time. I had decided on that for a family member’s car. Figured they always drive in rain and avoid snow, so that would be fine for them.
I looked last week on Tire Rack and the Cross Climate+ were like $188 in 235/45/18. I just looked they’re $201 and not available till 1/08. The CC2’s they don’t make in that size. They don't make the Vredestein Quatrac Pros in that size but make the 5’s.

I was kind of down to Michelin Cross Climate+ or Nokian WRG4. Any body have thoughts? Figured CC+ have the rain edge and WRG4 the snow.
Interestingly, Nokian list tread depth as 11/32, CC+ as 9/32.

 

[Tom K.]

Any body have thoughts? Figured CC+ have the rain edge and WRG4 the snow.

Hard to argue with that, IMO.

If, as you say, they mostly avoid snow driving, I'd probably vote for the Michelin, as much as I love Finland.......

 

[raytseng]

the nokian I believe is categorized as an "suv" tire while the michelin is a passenger car tire, thus the main reason for difference in tread depth.
I think you can expect that design parameter to show a bit in the vehicle handling as well.

 

[snwbrdr]

the nokian I believe is categorized as an "suv" tire while the michelin is a passenger car tire, thus the main reason for difference in tread depth.
I think you can expect that design parameter to show a bit in the vehicle handling as well.

Not necessarily.

Nokian has the passenger car WR G4 and the SUV WR G4 SUV.
Main difference? SUV gets Aramid reinforced sidewalls
Nokian wr G4 SUV by thisistan, on Flickr

Michelin as of late, for many of their passenger car tires and some SUV tires start out with less tread depth new. The CrossClimate SUV starts out with 9/32" tread depth for instance. The Premier LTX starts with 8.5/32" depth. But if you go to a Defender LTX M/S, then you get 12/32" depth. Xice-Snow SUV gets 10.5/32" depth

 

[James]

Not necessarily.

Nokian has the passenger car WR G4 and the SUV WR G4 SUV.

Michelin as of late, for many of their passenger car tires and some SUV tires start out with less tread depth new.

Yes, both list 11/32
The WRG3 SUV was a very different tire than the non SUV. Maybe the SUV was based on an older design?
The WRG4’s are similar design for both.

WRG3

tires-easy.com
SUV on left.

Non-SUV WRG4

WRG4 SUV
Photos from Nokian. Difference in lighting I’d say, probably the same tread. Hard to tell if the shoulder is really different as the photos are cut.

 

[snwbrdr]

Yes, both list 11/32
The WRG3 SUV was a very different tire than the non SUV. Maybe the SUV was based on an older design?
The WRG4’s are similar design for both.

WRG3
View attachment 116676
tires-easy.com
SUV on left.

On the G3's... the one on the left isn't the SUV. It's still the passenger car G3.

The one on the left is for smaller tire sizes, from the european WR D3, The one on the right is for larger tire sizes, for "more powerful cars", from the european WR A3.

The WR G3 SUV is a directional tire, but its own unique design.

Passenger Car All-Season tires / Nokian Tires

Find the right All-Season tires for your passenger car. Our All-season tires are tested under extreme conditions. They supplement the safety systems of your car and do what you could expect.

www.nokiantires.com

 

[James]

On the G3's... the one on the left isn't the SUV. It's still the passenger car G3.

The one on the left is for smaller tire sizes, from the european WR D3, The one on the right is for larger tire sizes, for "more powerful cars", from the european WR A3.

The WR G3 SUV is a directional tire, but its own unique design.

Passenger Car All-Season tires / Nokian Tires

Find the right All-Season tires for your passenger car. Our All-season tires are tested under extreme conditions. They supplement the safety systems of your car and do what you could expect.

www.nokiantires.com

Aha. Tires-easy.com cheated and used the wrong tire. But they’re still quite different than the non SUV.
Do you have the G3 or 4 SUV? Are they loud?
I seriously thought my wheel bearings were going. Then I put on the Conti Viking Contact 7 snow tires, which ironically are near silent.
Still love the Wrg3’s though. I’m closing in on 50k.

 

[S.H.]

Aha. Tires-easy.com cheated and used the wrong tire. But they’re still quite different than the non SUV.
Do you have the G3 or 4 SUV? Are they loud?
I seriously thought my wheel bearings were going. Then I put on the Conti Viking Contact 7 snow tires, which ironically are near silent.
Still love the Wrg3’s though. I’m closing in on 50k.

My wife has the WRG4 SUVs on her car - they're a bit louder than whatever was on the car when they sold it to her, but about the same, or quieter, than the X-Ice Snow SUV and the Michelin Defender LTX I run on my car...

 

[François Pugh]

One thing to bear in mind is that first 1/8" wears a lot faster than the last 1/8". The difference in mileage you get out of a slightly deeper tread might not be as much as you think. As to snow traction difference due to tread depth, IMHO I would just let the test results speak for themselves.

 

[raytseng]

The "Real" tread depth is how far those winter sipes (squiggles) go down. It could be super deep main blocks but if the winter sipes only go down 4/32s the real snow traction depth (and usable snowtread) is only "4/32".

 

[princo]

Don't forget about the Nokian Rotiiva AT Plus, which is a light AT tire and is also 3pmsf . I have them on my 4Runner and those came with 17.5/32" threat depth. At 20k miles they are still showing the "80%" wear indicator mark.

 

[snwbrdr]

Aha. Tires-easy.com cheated and used the wrong tire. But they’re still quite different than the non SUV.
Do you have the G3 or 4 SUV? Are they loud?
I seriously thought my wheel bearings were going. Then I put on the Conti Viking Contact 7 snow tires, which ironically are near silent.
Still love the Wrg3’s though. I’m closing in on 50k.

I had the G3 (assymetric) on my old car, and currently have G4 SUV on my current car. I didn't notice anything that makes me think they were loud.

 

[snwbrdr]

The "Real" tread depth is how far those winter sipes (squiggles) go down. It could be super deep main blocks but if the winter sipes only go down 4/32s the real snow traction depth (and usable snowtread) is only "4/32".

The snowflake WSI disappears after 4mm

 

[tball]

There's a ton of great info about the CrossClimates in this video that came out yesterday.

 

[raytseng]

There's a ton of great info about the CrossClimates in this video that came out yesterday.]

If you missed it there was also a 18min interview between Tirerack with the Michelin Product Manager on the Tirerack Crossclimate 2 page at the bottom.

They talk specifically about the engineering and design details of the CC2; so it comes directly from the horse's mouth on what they hoped to achieve and tradeoffs they made.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=CrossClimate2

 

[James]

I had the G3 (assymetric) on my old car, and currently have G4 SUV on my current car. I didn't notice anything that makes me think they were loud.

Maybe it takes more wear? Noise seems to be the main complaint on the WRG3. I’m ok with it now I know it’s just the tires. The WrG4 description mentions they added an element between the sidewall and tread to reduce noise.

There's a ton of great info about the CrossClimates in this video that came out yesterday.

Some good info. Too bad CC2’s don’t come in more sizes. Many sizes are sold out right now in CC+.

 

[snwbrdr]

Maybe it takes more wear? Noise seems to be the main complaint on the WRG3. I’m ok with it now I know it’s just the tires. The WrG4 description mentions they added an element between the sidewall and tread to reduce noise.


Some good info. Too bad CC2’s don’t come in more sizes. Many sizes are sold out right now in CC+.

My WR G3 had their silent sidewall feature. Again, this is on the passenger car version.

With a FWD car and lowered... it occasionally needs some help getting up a steep hill.

8D1626A5-8E61-4415-8BB8-BB389B649982_zpswimatpxd by thisistan, on Flickr

 

[Atomicman]

The "Real" tread depth is how far those winter sipes (squiggles) go down. It could be super deep main blocks but if the winter sipes only go down 4/32s the real snow traction depth (and usable snowtread) is only "4/32".

You are describing Blizzaks!