Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

[Jwrags]

I have now had the Michelin Cross Climates on my 2013 Highlander for a little over a month. I have now had the chance to drive them in rain and snow so thought I would give my impressions. When they were installed my first thought driving out of the parking lot was how "soft" they felt. They gave a very smooth ride. In the rain, the tread design definitely does well channeling water. I drove them to the coast and back from Portland in the rain and they performed well. Standing water that would have made the car bog down rolled through without difficulty. The past couple of days I have had them in central Oregon snow and they have felt secure.

I will say this is the first set of "premium" tires I have ever purchased and feel that I have been missing out. I am very pleased with the performance of these tires.

 

[Tom K.]

I have now had the Michelin Cross Climates on my 2013 Highlander for a little over a month. I am very pleased with the performance of these tires.

Everything I read about these indicates they will be on my XC60 next fall. Thanks for your impressions.

Here's hoping I can find them for less than the $260 each on Tire Rack!

 

[James]

I have now had the Michelin Cross Climates on my 2013 Highlander for a little over a month. I have now had the chance to drive them in rain and snow so thought I would give my impressions. When they were installed my first thought driving out of the parking lot was how "soft" they felt. They gave a very smooth ride. In the rain, the tread design definitely does well channeling water. I drove them to the coast and back from Portland in the rain and they performed well. Standing water that would have made the car bog down rolled through without difficulty. The past couple of days I have had them in central Oregon snow and they have felt secure.

I will say this is the first set of "premium" tires I have ever purchased and feel that I have been missing out. I am very pleased with the performance of these tires.

Were they Cross Climate +, or Cross Climate 2?

 

[Jwrags]

Were they Cross Climate +, or Cross Climate 2?

Cross Climate 2.

 

[Tom K.]

Were they Cross Climate +, or Cross Climate 2?

For my application, Tire Rack is showing "Cross Climate SUV".

Where does that fit into the roster?

 

[S.H.]

For my application, Tire Rack is showing "Cross Climate SUV".

Where does that fit into the roster?

in theory, crossclimate2 replaces the crossclimate+ and crossclimate SUV (which debuted in 2017)

Michelin CrossClimate2 Enters Market With 25 Sizes

Michelin North America Inc. says its newest tire delivers year-round performance and safety so consumers no longer have to give up one aspect to focus on another.

www.moderntiredealer.com

 

[James]

Tire Rack told me Cross Climate + is made in France, and I think the newer Cross Climate 2 is made in the US. I forget. There’s limited sizes in the 2. No idea about the SUV. Likely it would have a heavier sidewall.

 

[Tom K.]

in theory, crossclimate2 replaces the crossclimate+ and crossclimate SUV (which debuted in 2017)

Michelin CrossClimate2 Enters Market With 25 Sizes

Michelin North America Inc. says its newest tire delivers year-round performance and safety so consumers no longer have to give up one aspect to focus on another.

www.moderntiredealer.com

Tire Rack told me Cross Climate + is made in France, and I think the newer Cross Climate 2 is made in the US. I forget. There’s limited sizes in the 2. No idea about the SUV. Likely it would have a heavier sidewall.

Thanks! The CC2 links doesn't include my size 255/45/20.

I'm sure it will be well sorted by next fall, when I pull the trigger.

 

[cosmoliu]

Here's a question I can't easily find an answer to on the interwebs: My oem tire size is 245/50-19, load rating 105. The closest CrossClimate2 size is 245/55-19, load rating 103. Besides a slightly off speedometer reading, are there any other considerations I should know about before making the substitution?

 

[raytseng]

Here's a question I can't easily find an answer to on the interwebs: My oem tire size is 245/50-19, load rating 105. The closest CrossClimate2 size is 245/55-19, load rating 103. Besides a slightly off speedometer reading, are there any other considerations I should know about before making the substitution?

If you change diameter, there maybe clearance issues, as well as wear /performance issues as the suspension expects a certain diameter

typically if you need to do alternate sizing you adjust both the width and the profile to maintain the same diameter.
There are calculators thst will suggest you the alternate sizing.

So for your example, 225 55 r19 i think would be the better 55profile appropriate match (check alt sizes below that would also be closer than 245/55 r19, i did not verify)

Tire Size Calculator

The best tire size calculator. Use our tire size calculator to find tire size specs and suggested tire sizes. Then check prices for all available tire sizes.

tiresize.com

 

[Ogg]

Here's a question I can't easily find an answer to on the interwebs: My oem tire size is 245/50-19, load rating 105. The closest CrossClimate2 size is 245/55-19, load rating 103. Besides a slightly off speedometer reading, are there any other considerations I should know about before making the substitution?

I'd be worried about suspension and wheel well clearance. The 235 55 19 will be a better fit and , depending on the particular tire, may not be noticeably narrower than what it's replacing.

 

[scott43]

Try this..

Tire Size Calculator

The best tire size calculator. Use our tire size calculator to find tire size specs and suggested tire sizes. Then check prices for all available tire sizes.

tiresize.com

 

[Ogg]

If you change diameter, there maybe clearance issues, as well as wear /performance issues as the suspension expects a certain diameter

typically if you need to do alternate sizing you adjust both the width and the profile to maintain the same diameter.
There are calculators thst will suggest you the alternate sizing.

So for your example, 225 55 r19 i think would be the better 55profile appropriate match (check alt sizes below that would also be closer than 245/55 r19, i did not verify)

Tire Size Calculator

The best tire size calculator. Use our tire size calculator to find tire size specs and suggested tire sizes. Then check prices for all available tire sizes.

tiresize.com

Try this..

Tire Size Calculator

The best tire size calculator. Use our tire size calculator to find tire size specs and suggested tire sizes. Then check prices for all available tire sizes.

tiresize.com

Deja vu.

This one gives you a better visual representation. :https://www.rimsntires.com/specspro.jsp

 

[cosmoliu]

Thanks @raytseng , @Ogg and @scott43 . Yes, the 235/50-19 looks like a better fit. The diameter difference is 1%, which the interwebs seems to say is quite acceptable. Yesterday's search indicated that the difference for the 245/55-19 tire would be 3%.

So, the follow-up question: Would switching from a set of perfectly matched Conti DWS06 tires to the very slightly mismatched Michelin CrossClimate2 be worth the trouble for the gain in snow performance? Also throwing in the fact that a 10mm narrower footprint itself should, theoretically, improve snow traction slightly.

 

[raytseng]

Mismatched as in you're buying 2 tires only?
What car are you driving and is it Awd?
how worn are the dws06?

If I were in your shoes,

If its awd I'd get 4
If the dws doesnt have the S anymore you should get 4.
if the dws still has the S on the 2 tires you are keeping, i think the gains will be less noticeable as the dws is still a very capable tire despite not going for 3pmsf stamp

However all of this is to save some $. if you buy 4 tires often there is a discount for 4 that reduces the savings you were trying to eek out. So run the numbers to see how much this is really saving.

 

[James]

So, the follow-up question: Would switching from a set of perfectly matched Conti DWS06 tires to the very slightly mismatched Michelin CrossClimate2 be worth the trouble for the gain in snow performance? Also throwing in the fact that a 10mm narrower footprint itself should, theoretically, improve snow traction slightly.

Could you set that question up any more biased?
Not sure how the Michelin’s are “slightly mismatched”. You’re planing on getting different sizes for each tire?

The skinnier tire in snow issue is an interesting question. It might just be an old school dogmatic belief. I’d love to see actual tests in a variety of conditions. Not some sloppy youtube video.
The increase in comfort of a 55 tire over a 45 tire is real for small pot holes. Of course you balance that with whatever performance loss on dry.

 

[raytseng]

if i misread your wording about mismatch and its about matching to oem sizing,

narrower will be fine especially your whole intention is this is a compromise for improved winter use.

Just like skis, skinnier will be a quicker response and actually you may feel perform better in regular driving. (especially since this is just slight difference of 10mm)

Where you will lose by having the skinny tire, is high performance dry maximum traction,

But that factor is already compromised by picking this tire type. Unfortunately you will no longer be winning pink slips at race wars or helping Dom get away from the cops after the heists.

The other consideration is if this is a Lease, or you are doing a trade-in; and you have Lease requirements on tire type that will affect the price during the return/trade-in.

 

[cosmoliu]

Sorry, @James and @raytseng : What I meant is the Contis are a perfect match to the oem size, while a switch to the CrossClimates would be a slight deviation from oem. And I only ever buy tires in sets of 4. It comes down to: Are the CrossClimates enough better in snow than the DWS06s to make the switch worthwhile? And yes, for the purposes of this discussion I value better snow performance more than the nth degree of dry traction. I don't push corners hard enough to really discern a difference between "good" vs "great" summer tires.

 

[raytseng]

yea, if you aren't chirping tires already in your style of performance driving, you aren't going to notice the dry traction tradeoff on the alt sizing.

I have not driving cc, but I have driven dws, and I think the DWS (through the S) are solidly in this category class of tire, maybe not top of the class, but they don't belong down with the All-seasons.

If you intend to keep the car long enough to use the tire, and I were in your position, say go with the CC2. Besides the latest and greatest, the differentiating point is more going to be in season 2,3,4. I anticipate (guess) after the S wears off is where the CC2 with it's deep v tread design would've given you much better winter performance. When new you may not notice as much of a difference.

 

[cosmoliu]

Thanks for that input @raytseng , exactly what I needed. I will definitely keep the car long enough for several new sets of tires. My Monday morning/Friday evening commute is on very curvy roads (CA Hwy 58 between Bakersfield and Santa Margarita, over the Carrisa Plains) so even if I don't push corners as hard as I did 20 years ago, I never get more than about 15,000 miles out of any set of tires. If I time it right, I can usually get two ski seasons out of a set. And having only replaced the original tires with the DWS06s in Feb, the S still shows, though I do anticipate that it, and perhaps even the W, will be gone by next fall. After this discussion, I believe the next set of tires will be the CC2s. They have piqued my interest enough that I have to be able to say that I at least tried them.