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Passenger All-Weather Tires with 3PMSF aka "4season" tires discussion

Jwrags

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I definitely got to test the CC 2 today. Arrived at Mt. Bachelor this morning to snow after driving up part way in the rain and through the transition to snow. When we knocked off early there was a good 4” of new snow on the car and in the parking lot. No problem pulling out of the space and through the parking lot as well as back down through the slush zone to the rain. I felt very secure on the road.
 

James

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Very few people actually find the limit of dry traction for any tire. I would put wet traction ahead of that for sure.
Yeah that’s why I selected the Cross Climate + for a family members vehicle. I put rain over ultimate snow performance too, since they avoid driving in snow like the plague and usually can.
Still waiting for them to come in. Nov- December they sold out some sizes in NA.

Now, I have no idea how they manage to take out chunks of the sidewall. Not sure “hazard protection” insurance covers constant curb bashing. Like Apple refuses now to let my nephew get Apple Care as he’s damaged 3 phones and had them replaced.
 

cosmoliu

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For a planned drive to Snowbird week after next, I took my car in to have the tires rotated this morning. Checking the tread depth, I was dismayed to find 4-5/32" on my Continental DWS 06s, installed 14,000 miles ago (my Monday AM/Friday PM commute takes me on very windy roads that really scrub the rubber off quickly). I'd consider driving up to Mammoth on them, but no way I'd venture up SR 210 to Snowbird. I decided that there's no better time than the present to check out the CrossClimate 2s. A brief consultation with the store manager confirmed that substituting the 235/55-19s for the OEM 245/50-19s should be just fine. Looking forward to a real world test of these tires. BTW, the -S- of the DWS was still present when I looked 3 weeks ago. It has since disappeared from 3 of the 4 tires.
 

cosmoliu

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I know this is a 3PMSF thread, but this video review came up on my iPhone this morning and it puts the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 ahead of the Continental DWS 06. And by a fair amount. Since the DWS 06 has been mentioned many times in this thread, I thought this would be of interest to some here.

 
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djetok

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I put the conti dws06 on the m35i. We have had 12 inches of snow in OKC. Those tires have worked awesome. I also have the mich as 3 on the MKZ awd. In the snow conti hands down, all the rest the mich.
 

PinnacleJim

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I have BFG g-Force Comp-2 A/S on my BMW X1. They are the highest rated UHP tire in snow performance in Tirerack.com reviews and the only UHP tire rated above average in snow by Consumer Reports. This is the second set of these I have had on the X1. Great tire.
 

cosmoliu

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I have BFG g-Force Comp-2 A/S on my BMW X1. They are the highest rated UHP tire in snow performance in Tirerack.com reviews and the only UHP tire rated above average in snow by Consumer Reports. This is the second set of these I have had on the X1. Great tire.
Are they stamped 3PMSF?
 

cosmoliu

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There certainly are good things being said about those tires. Heavy competition in the segment.

Does the X1 have a spare tire option? I wasn't comfortable going with non run-flat tires until I got my current X3 (my third one), which finally offered that option.
 

PinnacleJim

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I have the first gen X1 which came with run flats and no spare tire or jack. I carry a plug kit and a 12V compessor. Not ideal, but most issues are handled with this. I hated the OEM Goodyear run flats.
 

cosmoliu

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I also carry a tire inflator, which also has taken care of 'most' situations. Up until last January when I picked up and immediately spit out a sheet metal screw (you could see the imprint in the rubber after the fact) in my right rear tire. Spitting it back out might have had something to do with going about 80 at the time. I lost all pressure essentially immediately. This was with the oem run-flats (summer) about 8 months in on my current X3. I already had ordered the Conti DWSs in shop pending a trip to Mammoth. I took BMW/Bridgestone at their word and continued at <50 mph for about 30 miles, when the temperature readout on the dash really began to spike for that tire. I stopped at the first tire repair opportunity and asked to have the tire patched. The sidewalls were completely shredded and the only option was to mount the spare. So much for the promise of run-flats going 50 miles at <50 mph. I've since learned that a zero pressure run flat can go maybe a couple of blocks without permanent damage. I do now also carry a plug kit, but I have serious doubts that I have the strength/agility to insert a plug into a mounted rear tire. Front tire, maybe. But not rear.
 

djetok

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On my x2M35i , I piece milled a spare tire kit together. If I have a front tire issue, I will have to move a rear tire forward and put the spare on the rear. The spare will not fit over the M big brake kit. There is a guy on the bimmerpost , that used a mercedes spare that fits over the big brakes on the front.
 

cosmoliu

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On my x2M35i , I piece milled a spare tire kit together. If I have a front tire issue, I will have to move a rear tire forward and put the spare on the rear. The spare will not fit over the M big brake kit. There is a guy on the bimmerpost , that used a mercedes spare that fits over the big brakes on the front.

I hadn't thought about the front brakes being an issue; maybe on the X3 M40i it isn't. I hope I don't have to put this knowledge to use, but at least I now know what to do. On the other hand, I'm too old to want to be changing tires on the side of the road. That's what a AAA membership is for.
 

doc

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to @cosmoliu's observation, I have the Conti DWS06s on 3 cars, and the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4s on a fourth (all awd Audis). In snow the DWS06 outperforms the PSAS4, but in all other conditions the Michelin is better. BTW, I'm not getting nearly the tread life on the DWS06s as advertised.
As comparatively good as the DWS06 is in the snow, it sure ain't no snow tire and I would never take a car equipped with those on ski trip. For that its an SQ5 with Nokian Hakkapelliita (or however you spell them) tires.
@cosmoliu, when our 2014 X3 was reaching the end of its life, we cross-shopped the X3 M40i and the Audi SQ5. I liked the BMW, she liked the Audi. She won. We're happy.
 

djetok

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I hadn't thought about the front brakes being an issue; maybe on the X3 M40i it isn't. I hope I don't have to put this knowledge to use, but at least I now know what to do. On the other hand, I'm too old to want to be changing tires on the side of the road. That's what a AAA membership is for.
I imagine the big brakes are the same. I know that there are some people that are using 18" wheels with the proper offset that clear the brake caliper (barely). My winter tire combo is a 19 inch
20210219_134214.jpg
20210219_134220.jpg
 

cosmoliu

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to @cosmoliu's observation, I have the Conti DWS06s on 3 cars, and the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4s on a fourth (all awd Audis). In snow the DWS06 outperforms the PSAS4, but in all other conditions the Michelin is better. BTW, I'm not getting nearly the tread life on the DWS06s as advertised.
As comparatively good as the DWS06 is in the snow, it sure ain't no snow tire and I would never take a car equipped with those on ski trip. For that its an SQ5 with Nokian Hakkapelliita (or however you spell them) tires.
@cosmoliu, when our 2014 X3 was reaching the end of its life, we cross-shopped the X3 M40i and the Audi SQ5. I liked the BMW, she liked the Audi. She won. We're happy.
That's why I put up that video review in post #145. Word on the street generally puts the DWS 06 at the top of the heap of all season offerings in the snow. I've watched many of the Tyre Reviews guy's videos and he seems very accomplished. So it got my attention when he found that the PSAS4 beat the DWS 06, by no small margin.

I grew up in the Midwest, so learned to drive in snow early on, including an hour or so in a vacant parking lot sliding around on fresh snow soon after getting my license, which would have been in 1968. It was very educational. When I moved to CA in 1986 I really relished the ability to be within reasonable driving distance to skiing, primarily to Mammoth, and soon learned that So. Californians generally are clueless in snow. I've been nailed twice at Mammoth by Angelinos, once rendering the car undrivable, so it had to be brought down on a flatbed truck. I've since decided that when the roads are snow covered it makes the most sense to park on the flats over by Chair 15 rather than go up the hill to either Canyon Lodge, Chair 1, or Chair 2, my preferred spot. Anyway, that's a long intro to saying that I've followed the development of snow-capable all season tires with more than a passing interest. I've always tried to outfit my cars with such tires as it really doesn't make sense for me to have a winter set just for the <1% of time I actually spend in snow. Heck, some years my 3-4 trips to Mammoth are on entirely dry roads.

So, up to now, I've been satisfied with snow-capable all season tires because I've got the Mammoth trip dialed in. However, I'm looking forward to my upcoming trip to LCC next week with more than a little trepidation. Particularly given the 80+ inches of snow they've gotten in the last week. I've been up/down SR 210 maybe 100 times in the last 10 years, but never as the driver. Most of the time, it's a leisurely jaunt. But more than a handful of times it's been a white knuckle experience. I'm really glad I'm getting CrossClimate 2s mounted tomorrow. I know very well that they are not full-on snow tires, but they seem to be the best option for what I perceive to be my needs.

BTW, I also am not impressed with the DWS's tread longevity in the 13 months I've been on them. The CrossClimate 2 UTQG sidewall stamp is 640 to the DWS's 560. I usually try to eek out two winter seasons on a set of tires. We shall see, particularly after next summer.
 
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Chickenmonkey

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I just got the BFG Advantage TA Sport LT in the original posters list. I will report back once I have some time on them.

So, the world kind of shut down just after I got these and I have just now felt good about sharing my still limited experience with them.

I was “forced” into new tires before I really wanted as I got an unrepairable flat on my winter tire wheel set. The Michelin Ice-X 2 were a good winter tire for us when in the snow. Very little slipping on ice or snow even after 4 seasons of wear. A friend who runs AT tires even commented how well they handled icy steeps (Rubicon peak BC access parking by the water tower if you know it) and was rethinking his tire choices.

My initial thought was to replace the winters with the Ice-X 3 but they were not really available in CA yet. My summer wheel tires were also ready for a change so I decided to swap the Toyo OEM crap tires instead with a much better performing all weather tire to see if the overall drive from the Bay Area to Tahoe could be improved w/o feeling or being unsafe once in the snow/ice.

I have about 5k miles on the BFGs including a road trip to Medford and for the non-snow portion of my driving they are a vast improvement and are not the limiting factor in drive feel for my 2013 Highlander, which we know is no performance machine, LOL. My driving has already slowed down quite a bit from my Legacy GT days. Anyway, these tires feel much safer and predictable (the overall goal) in these portions of the drive.

For snow/ice, I have about 5-10 days of more icy snow conditions (Tahoe this year) and have never felt unsafe. Braking and steering has been predictable although clearly not as grippy as the winter tires. I’d say I have slowed down when it is snowy or icy and I am providing even more space between the vehicle in front of me. I have not gotten them in 4+ inches of snow yet as our plowing has been on point this year. :) I have not had to make any emergency stops etc yet...knock wood.

Right now, I will continue the season on these tires and see how next season goes after being in the 10K mileage range. Once winter performance starts to fade, I will see what is available for my winter wheel set. Consider me a happy customer for the moment.
 

Plai

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For a planned drive to Snowbird week after next, I took my car in to have the tires rotated this morning. Checking the tread depth, I was dismayed to find 4-5/32" on my Continental DWS 06s, installed 14,000 miles ago (my Monday AM/Friday PM commute takes me on very windy roads that really scrub the rubber off quickly). I'd consider driving up to Mammoth on them, but no way I'd venture up SR 210 to Snowbird. I decided that there's no better time than the present to check out the CrossClimate 2s. A brief consultation with the store manager confirmed that substituting the 235/55-19s for the OEM 245/50-19s should be just fine. Looking forward to a real world test of these tires. BTW, the -S- of the DWS was still present when I looked 3 weeks ago. It has since disappeared from 3 of the 4 tires.
@cosmoliu
Don't know if this recall involves your tire, but it seems like you're not alone... Just leaving it here for everyone to chew on.

 

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