Pastrami, Corned Beef, or Montreal Smoked Meat -- What's Your Pleasure?!

[crosscountry]

This thread is making me hungry!

 

[Uncle-A]

Virtually every “it’s the water” theory for bagels is just invented. I don’t know any major baker who supports the theory. It really has to do with memory, and inventing a reason for why the bagels in memory were better than the new place one lives. Or years ago, the guy in Brooklyn coming up with a reason why the guy in such and such a place can’t make bagels like his.

Same with pizza dough. We see great pizza made all over the place these days. Where is the water theory with pizza? There’s far more water in pizza dough than bagel dough.

Bagels are a low hydration dough, in the low 50%. (Pizza 70-75% usually) Then you bake it, and most of it evaporates. Now if you’re talking disgusting water, probably yes it matters. You do boil them, if a water bagel, in alkaline water. Usually containing lye, sodium hydroxide. Same stuff used to clear drains, but hopefully purer. So you’re actually “polluting” the water there.
(Most bagels are steamed now, not boiled)
But if the water is ok to drink and not offensive, water will make little or no difference. Beer may be “liquid bread”, but it is liquid and mostly water and the minerals in it matter apparently.

I really don’t find the bagels in NYC to be good just because. I had some a couple weeks ago from a place with a line out front in Manhattan, and they weren’t that great. Pretty meh. For one, they’re all underbaked, but that is kind of what the public expects, so why waste time with a few minutes more. For two, it’s difficult to get a natural yeast, sourdough, leavened bagel. They are much easier to digest. But those aren’t traditional in the last 100 yrs anyway.

Smoke residue is left on the meat. Does it really matter which wood? The meat smokers can debate that. Techniques may matter much more than the exact wood, no idea. I do know a place where the smoked meat tastes, and smells, like they burned down a house and threw the meat in. It’s awful, but supposedly lots of people like it. I suspect that any competent meat smoker would regard it as terrible.

The bagels you had that were "meh" are the ones that we're steamed, the good ones are still boiled.

 

[VickieH]

Virtually every “it’s the water” theory for bagels is just invented. I don’t know any major baker who supports the theory.

The shop here that claims to make New York style bagels says that they use water that has the same mineral content as New York's. Maybe it's the minerals. What I do know is that it's the only place I have found here (Denver area) thus far where the bagels have that distinctive flavor and texture.

Is Ess-a-Bagel in NYC considered to be an authentic bagel shop?

 

[graham418]

It's been too long since I've had a corned beef/ pastrami/ MSM on rye sandwich. They are getting harder to find, at least here in Toronto. And a good rye bread is becoming harder to find as well

 

[tch]

The only bagel that really stood out to me was from the now-defunct H&H Bagels on the upper west side.
I think they added malt or something like that to create an undertone (sweetness?) that really distinguished them. Texture was perfect and size was good -- not too blimp-like and not too compact.
No other bagel I've had has really hit the spot like that. I miss 'em.

 

[dbostedo]

The only bagel that really stood out to me was from the now-defunct H&H Bagels on the upper west side.
I think they added malt or something like that to create an undertone (sweetness?) that really distinguished them. Texture was perfect and size was good -- not too blimp-like and not too compact.
No other bagel I've had has really hit the spot like that. I miss 'em.

Plus, Kramer worked there, and then went on strike... so they had that going for them...


(Though of course that's a hollywood set, not the real H&H.)

 

[Scruffy]

Katz used to be good in the 70's

 

[Marker]

I changed my vote to Pastrami if Smoked Meat is a Montreal specialty, not BBQ. I've never had or heard of it, although I suspect I would like it.

 

[Andy Mink]

The poll is flawed. Only one choice allowed. There. Someone had to say it!

 

[Uncle-A]

The poll is flawed. Only one choice allowed. There. Someone had to say it!

Maybe they can add "All of the Above"

 

[dbostedo]

The poll is flawed. Only one choice allowed. There. Someone had to say it!

C'mon... much like your children, one of them has to be your favorite!

 

[VickieH]

The poll is flawed. Only one choice allowed. There. Someone had to say it!

Wee bit cranky there, eh, @Andy Mink? And only on day #1 of PT. Here ya go ...

 

[Andy Mink]

Wee bit cranky there, eh, @Andy Mink? And only on day #1 of PT. Here ya go ...

Nah, the polls here are ALWAYS flawed. It's an unwritten rule!

 

[Tom K.]

My favorite "Reuben" is made with pastrami and cole slaw.

I love the cole slaw idea. I typically order a Reuben with "light kraut", but slaw would be better.

Side note: My late, great, German grandfather made his own sauerkraut. So mellow. Actually fermented. Not sure if anybody even offers that these days.

I like smoked meat. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

This needed poll... so I added one.

And BTW... isn't "smoked meat" just a generic term for tons of different smoked meat items? Or does it mean something specific where you're from @Tom K. ?

I should have specified MONTREAL smoked meat. My understanding is that it's pastrami with less sugar used.

Corned Beef, Pastrami, and Montreal Smoked Meat: Do You Know the Difference?

Corned Beef, Pastrami, and Montreal Smoked Meat: do you favor one of these delicious meats over the others? We've got no beef with that, but you should know the differences between how they're made and where they come from.

www.foodandwine.com

My nutrition-nut wife is on the hunt already because of this difference.....

Could you please change the poll and title?

 

[Tony S]

This thread made me SO hungry.

@James , have you had Montreal bagels? Krista Dejarlais makes them at The Purple House, which is how I know about them. But there is a big Jewish community in Montreal so it makes some sense

I'm irrationally prejudiced against "smoked meat" because it just sounds like a way to avoid having to tell the eater exactly what meat is in question. Forget about what cut, I'm taking about what animal.

I went to college in a very working class Maine city where there were lots of families with Quebecois roots. French was still spoken in lots of homes. The local pizza-joint-cum-dive-bar had the usual toppings but the kind of baseline pizza had "meat" on it. No matter how inebriated, we were always careful not to order that one.

 

[James]

@James , have you had Montreal bagels? Krista Dejarlais makes them at The Purple House, which is how I know about them. But there is a big Jewish community in Montreal so it makes some sense

No, never had them.
The problem with bagels, and even more so croissants, is they’re a lot of work and they can’t really be sold for much.

Interesting toppings. I’m concerned about the everything as they don’t offer onion or garlic. What’s in their everything?
————-
Always: Plain, Poppy, Sesame, Montreal Spice, Rosemary Sea Salt, Za'atar, Everything, Maple Sugar,

Raisin Walnut, Fennel Maple Sea Salt, Kombu Maple Sugar, Sea Salt

Daily: Bittersweet Chocolate, Olive Oil and Maple Sea Salt $3.00
———————

I'm irrationally prejudiced against "smoked meat" because it just sounds like a way to avoid having to tell the eater exactly what meat is in question. Forget about what cut, I'm taking about what animal.

Dude, it’s not China.
It’s not like they’re going to smoke a bat, you’d end up with a little turd. We’ve got plenty of cows and pigs.
People are obsessed now with quality smoking.

 

[Philpug]

My favorite "Reuben" is made with pastrami and cole slaw.

Corned beef special on rye toast.

As far as a Rueben. I was out and order one and it came without Russian dressing. I asked the server and she said they were out. I asked it the have catsup and she said yes. What about mayo and relish? of course we do. Then you have #^*+ing Russian dressing . Mix the three and bring it out.

 

[BC.]

Thread drift alert...

What is the difference between Russian dressing and Thousand Island dressing? As part caveman, I like both.... but have wondered what the difference is? (I could Google it, but the information provided here is so much more entertaining....lol)

 

[James]

 

[KingGrump]

My late, great, German grandfather made his own sauerkraut. So mellow. Actually fermented. Not sure if anybody even offers that these days.

Sauerkraut was never one of my favorite food. Found it to be too harsh and astringent. That said, the St. Bernard grill at Taos serves a mean sauerkraut with juniper berries. Really mellow and flavorful. Intended to be served with the bratwurst yet good enough to put on top of anything else that comes off the grill.